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CECE
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7kW 33lbs!!!!!

Watts, there is no substitute!!!! http://prosoundnews.com/articles/article_4321.shtml

Yiangos
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

Hey Dup

For aproximately the same weight,you could allways get a Sun Audio sv-2a3 at 3.5 wpc

mrlowry
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

Hey DUP if you believe this I've got a bridge that I'd be willing to let go real cheap in Brooklyn or San Francisco real reasonable. I bet I could get them up to about 8,000 watts with some upgraded power cords.

CECE
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

If I beleive what? ElectroVoice is a pro products mfg. they don't sell nonsense. You note it also requires a 30A line!!! Fortunatly there are no 30a wiring devices in Audio grade. But if you notice it has a pretty high distortion spec etc. WILL it be noticable? If used in a smaller operation? this thing is meant to fill a BIG space with clean sound. that kind of power is incredible you feel how hot a 100W incandessant lamp is? that's a lot of energy. stacks and stacks of LARGE speakers to absord that kind of power and produce incredible dB levels. some SLS ribbons with this kind of power, wow. If this is run in mono, can it be? With an AVA phase inerter!!! how much power then? Will a 15W tube amp sound better?

JoeE SP9
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

Yes. A 3w or so 2A3 amp also might sound better. Coupled with the right gear it would almost certainly sound better. Flea powered tube amps driving +102db/W/meter efficient horns would be loud enough even for you. It isn't always about eardrum breaking volume or enough power to illuminate the Chrysler building.

Jim Tavegia
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

I suppose you could get someone to cryogenically treat these for you. Personally, I would consider anything hospital grade as audiophile quality. Of course, your mileage may vary.
Hubble 30A

CECE
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

Not ear drum breaking, just REALISTIC levels and feel. When the snare drum snaps, it's gotta sound REAL..while keeping the cymbals clean, undistorted, 3W ain't gonna do itm, I don't care how efficeint your speakers are, impossible. One simple bass note takes the complete energy availabe in some tiny useless 3 watt amp, then it's all distortion, nothing else. Don't you think in all these years, if this was possibile, live sound systems WOULD be doing just that? think of the money they could save in insatllations....Not having to have a stack and racks and racks of monster amps totaling say 32kW as in teh case of Starland in Sayerville, they could have a few mini watts, driving thee efficeient speakers, Many pro speakers ARE very efficient anyway...SLS, EAW, JBL, and many others..WATTS, is the only thing making it REAL. Driving good speakers of course, fed by good music and mics etc. Best musicans in teh world playing to a live crowd, with a 3 w miniwatt, ain't gonna make it enjoyable, impossible

CECE
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

Hubbell, P&S, Eagle, Leviton, all make fine stuff, none of which is "audio grade"..since NEMA or NEC or IEC, or VDE etc etc recognize that denotation in wiring devices. Only marketeers and hucksters created it. Heard some great music last nite in Asbury Park, LIVE Matt Oree, Sonny Kenn Matt has many non audio grade extension cords, so does Sonny Kenn. Man it sounded GREAT!!! Fuchs,Komet, Marshall,Gibson, Fender, Gretsch...a few things that make it sound GREAT. And the "MAGIC" fingers playing them instruments of course, now that's TRUE MAGIC!!!!

Jim Tavegia
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

I am so glad you are helping us define "Huckerster". Some have seen it and heard it. And it continues, ad nauseam.

JoeE SP9
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

I would suggest you go to a Klipsch or Avant Garde dealer and give their horns a listen while using flea powered tube amps, of course.

Buddha
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

Classic.

DUP, have you heard these babies, or is there no need since they piss watts like used beer?

Hey, the "no need to hear them" camp is a fine place to visit, but I don't wanna live there.

I guess if it makes the House of Blues, Chicago manage to fill an amphitheater with 125 dB of loudness, it must be good.

I do admit, those will be ahead of AVA on my auditon list...more watts, must be better.

Buy 'em and give us a review vs. your AVA's.

mrlowry
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

As I have stated in the past the method of rating wattage is NOT STANDARDIZED. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) offers some guidelines but leaves plenty of loop holes.

They have NOT standardized the frequency range over which the amplifier is tested or the amount of distortion that is allowable during a test. The only thing that is required is that these variables be disclosed to the public. Arcam did an interesting test on a product manufactured by their completion. Check this out: http://www.audiophilesystems.com/arcam/AVR300PowerRatings.pdf

Pro gear actually has less regulations than consumer gear check this out:

http://www.soundandcommunications.com/audio/2006_06_audio.htm

See the FTC regulations for consumer gear yourself at :

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_03/16cfr432_03.html

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 16, Volume 1]
[Revised as of January 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 16CFR432.1]

[Page 421]

TITLE 16--COMMERCIAL PRACTICES

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION

PART 432--POWER OUTPUT CLAIMS FOR AMPLIFIERS UTILIZED IN HOME ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCTS--Table of Contents

Sec. 432.1 Scope.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, this part
shall apply whenever any power output (in watts or otherwise), power
band or power frequency response, or distortion capability or
characteristic is represented, either expressly or by implication, in
connection with the advertising, sale, or offering for sale, in commerce
as ``commerce'' is defined in the Federal Trade Commission Act, of sound
power amplification equipment manufactured or sold for home
entertainment purposes, such as for example, radios, record and tape
players, radio-phonograph and/or tape combinations, component audio
amplifiers, self-powered speakers for computers, multimedia systems and
sound systems, and the like.
(b) Representations shall be exempt from this part if all
representations of performance characteristics referred to in paragraph
(a) of this section clearly and conspicuously disclose a manufacturer's
rated power output and that rated output does not exceed two (2) watts
(per channel or total).
(c) It is an unfair method of competition and an unfair or deceptive
act or practice within the meaning of section 5(a)(1) of the Federal
Trade Commission Act (15 U.S.C. 45(a)(1)) to violate any applicable
provision of this part.

[39 FR 15387, May 3, 1974, as amended at 63 FR 37235, July 9, 1998]

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 16, Volume 1]
[Revised as of January 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 16CFR432.2]

[Page 421-422]

TITLE 16--COMMERCIAL PRACTICES

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION

PART 432--POWER OUTPUT CLAIMS FOR AMPLIFIERS UTILIZED IN HOME ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCTS--Table of Contents

Sec. 432.2 Required disclosures.

(a) Whenever any direct or indirect representation is made of the
power output, power band or power frequency response, or distortion
characteristics of sound power amplification equipment, the following
disclosure shall be made clearly, conspicuously, and more prominently
than any other representations or disclosures permitted under this part:
The manufacturer's rated minimum sine wave continuous average power
output, in watts, per channel (if the equipment is designed to amplify
two or more channels simultaneously) at an impedance of 8 ohms, or, if
the amplifier is not designed for an 8-ohm impedance, at the impedance
for which the amplifier is primarily designed, measured with all
associated channels fully driven to rated per channel power. Provided,
however, when measuring maximum per channel output of self-powered
combination speaker systems that employ two or more amplifiers dedicated
to different portions of the audio frequency spectrum, such as those
incorporated into combination subwoofer-satellite speaker systems, only
those channels dedicated to the same audio frequency spectrum should be
considered associated channels that need be fully driven simultaneously
to rated per channel power.
(b) In addition, whenever any direct or indirect representation is
made of the power output, power band or power frequency response, or
distortion characteristics of sound power amplification equipment in any
product brochure or manufacturer specification sheet, the following
disclosures also shall be made clearly, conspicuously, and more
prominently than any other

[[Page 422]]

representations or disclosures permitted under this part:
(1) The manufacturer's rated power band or power frequency response,
in Hertz (Hz), for the rated power output required to be disclosed in
paragraph (a) of this section; and
(2) The manufacturer's rated percentage of maximum total harmonic
distortion at any power level from 250 mW to the rated power output, and
its corresponding rated power band or power frequency response.

[65 FR 81239, Dec. 22, 2000]

Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 16, Volume 1]
[Revised as of January 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 16CFR432.3]

[Page 422]

TITLE 16--COMMERCIAL PRACTICES

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION

PART 432--POWER OUTPUT CLAIMS FOR AMPLIFIERS UTILIZED IN HOME ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCTS--Table of Contents

Sec. 432.3 Standard test conditions.

For purposes of performing the tests necessary to make the
disclosures required under Sec. 432.2 of this part:
(a) The power line voltage shall be 120 volts AC (230 volts when the
equipment is made for foreign sale or use, unless a different nameplate
rating is permanently affixed to the product by the manufacturer in
which event the latter figure would control), RMS, using a sinusoidal
wave containing less than 2 percent total harmonic content. In the case
of equipment designed for battery operation only, tests shall be made
with the battery power supply for which the particular equipment is
designed and such test voltage must be disclosed under the required
disclosures of Sec. 432.2 of this part. If capable of both AC and DC
battery operation, testing shall be with AC line operation;
(b) The AC power line frequency for domestic equipment shall be 60
Hz and 50 Hz for equipment made for foreign sale or use;
(c) The amplifier shall be preconditioned by simultaneously
operating all channels at one-eighth of rated power output for one hour
using a sinusoidal wave at a frequency of 1,000 Hz; provided, however,
that for amplifiers utilized as a component in a self-powered subwoofer
system, the sinusoidal wave used as a preconditioning signal may be any
frequency within the amplifier's intended operating bandwidth that will
allow the amplifier to be driven to one-eighth of rated power for one
hour;
(d) The preconditioning and testing shall be in still air and an
ambient temperature of at least 77 deg.F (25 deg.C);
(e) Rated power shall be obtainable at all frequencies within the
rated power band without exceeding the rated maximum percentage of total
harmonic distortion after input signals at said frequencies have been
continuously applied at full rated power for not less than five (5)
minutes at the amplifier's auxiliary input, or if not provided, at the
phono input.
(f) At all times during warm-up and testing, tone loudness-contour
and other controls shall be preset for the flattest response.

[39 FR 15387, May 3, 1974, as amended at 65 FR 81240, Dec. 22, 2000]

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 16, Volume 1]
[Revised as of January 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 16CFR432.4]

[Page 422-423]

TITLE 16--COMMERCIAL PRACTICES

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION

PART 432--POWER OUTPUT CLAIMS FOR AMPLIFIERS UTILIZED IN HOME ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCTS--Table of Contents

Sec. 432.4 Optional disclosures.

Other operating characteristics and technical specifications not
required in Sec. 432.2 of this part may be disclosed: Provided:
(a) That any other power output is rated by the manufacturer, is
expressed in minimum watts per channel, and such power output
representation(s) complies with the provisions of Sec. 432.2 of this
part; except that if a peak or other instantaneous power rating, such as
music power or peak power, is represented under this section, the
maximum percentage of total harmonic distortion (see Sec. 432.2(d) of
this part) may be disclosed only at such rated output: And provided
further,
(b) That all disclosures or representations made under this section
are less conspicuously, and prominently made than the disclosures
required in Sec. 432.2 of this part; and
(c) The rating and testing methods or standards used in determining
such representations are disclosed, and well known and generally
recognized by the industry at the time the representations or
disclosures are made, are neither intended nor likely to deceive or
confuse the consumers and are not otherwise likely to frustrate the
purpose of this part.

Note 1: For the purpose of paragraph (b) of this section, optional
disclosures will not be considered less prominent if they are either
bold faced or are more than two-thirds the height of the disclosures
required by Sec. 432.2.

[[Page 423]]

Note 2: Use of the asterisk in effecting any of the disclosures
required by Sec. 432.2 and permitted by Sec. 432.4 shall not be deemed
conspicuous disclosure.

[39 FR 15387, May 3, 1974; 39 FR 17838, May 21, 1974]

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 16, Volume 1]
[Revised as of January 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 16CFR432.5]

[Page 423]

TITLE 16--COMMERCIAL PRACTICES

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION

PART 432--POWER OUTPUT CLAIMS FOR AMPLIFIERS UTILIZED IN HOME ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCTS--Table of Contents

Sec. 432.5 Prohibited disclosures.

No performance characteristics to which this part applies shall be
represented or disclosed if they are not obtainable as represented or
disclosed when the equipment is operated by the consumer in the usual
and normal manner without the use of extraneous aids.

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 16, Volume 1]
[Revised as of January 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 16CFR432.6]

[Page 423]

TITLE 16--COMMERCIAL PRACTICES

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION

PART 432--POWER OUTPUT CLAIMS FOR AMPLIFIERS UTILIZED IN HOME ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCTS--Table of Contents

Sec. 432.6 Liability for violation.

If the manufacturer or, in the case of foreign made products, the
importer or domestic sales representative of a foreign manufacturer, of
any product covered by this part furnishes the information required or
permitted under this part, then any other seller of the product shall
not be deemed to be in violation of Sec. 432.5 of this part due to his
reliance upon or transmittal of the written representations of the
manufacturer or importer if such seller has been furnished by the
manufacturer, importer, or sales representative a written certification
attesting to the accuracy of the representations to which this part
applies: And provided further, That such seller is without actual
knowledge of the violation contained in said written certification.

CECE
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

Before the FTC rules there was nothing used to use the same procedure, standardized. 1/3 pre conditioning didn't exist. Now which extremely expensive model didn't meet even this procedure? No response yet from mfg on this foible. Before FTC rules there was something like IHF nonsense, which used peak power, dynamic power, music power, this power or that power, depending on what was mae up for the product. RMS which is the only way to measure watts became necessary after FTC stepped in. hopefully one day they will step in on wire BS. Make the claims be proved, and not just some imaginary things being transformed. Just seen the latest AQ in Absolute Sound....hmmm, now the RCA connector gets a new shape, and a new name, doesn't mention voltage of the "bias", that was last months science at AQ.

CECE
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Re: 7kW 33lbs!!!!!

HOB was well done, natural, smooth, not anything near 125dB. You make assumptions. It just sounded GREAT!!!!! Clear, resolved, with slam and IMPACT. No boom, no mush, no shrill, matter o' fact almost sounded as good as my house stuff. And this was in a crowd of well over 1000, great place, highly recomended. HOB AC is also similar. HOB has been purchased by a differetn company, hopefully they maintain the same high standards. Nothing could be finer than two giant vertical stacks of prime speakers from floor to ceiling, making REAL MAGIC. Superb clarity, slam and natural sound. Place is a reference for all others to follow, then after I see the article in a pro sound installation publication, it proved to myself, my ears know what they is doing. It starts with lotsa great clean, fast WATTS into great speakers, setup properly. Fed input from incredible musicans. Now that's what it's all about. AND the lighting was superb also, bright, clear, no glare, really well done compared to many other places I've been, that kinda suck.

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