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WillWeber
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page 3 >> lost listening time

(This thread deserves a third page.)

Tom, you are correct. And I've been busy listening to great music, no headaches there!

WillW

es347
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No offense intended May but

No offense intended May but having a serious conversation around this particular subject just is not possible.  If you believe that standing on one leg and howling at the moon will make things more musical then do it....in the nude if you prefer...but it will always be a hard sell for 99% of the earth's sane population.

mjalazard
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Now Geoff will sell you a

Now Geoff will sell you a "Quantum Temple Bell is a handheld brass bell of the type used in feng shui space clearing rituals that has been extensively modified to improve effectiveness for audio and video performance."

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?accstwek&1319074693

I think he's clearing out his garage.

Mike
 

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Nice looking bell

Unfortunately it doesn't fit my decor, and I wouldn't spend my time ringing it.  Think I'll use the money for a couple of HDTracks downloads instead.

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Hold up there.

I wouldn't be so quick to criticize.

Last year, I successfully combined it with the "Intelligently Clever Red Suit Willie T. Stokes" tweak and made several hundred bucks during the Christmas season.

 The tweak paid for itself.

My associate Marcus and I were doing great until  that department store manager tried to muscle in on our gig.

Yup, I made one bad santa.

May Belt
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Quote:“No offense
Quote:

“No offense intended May but having a serious conversation around this particular subject just is not possible.  If you believe that standing on one leg and howling at the moon will make things more musical then do it....in the nude if you prefer...but it will always be a hard sell for 99% of the earth's sane population.”

No offence taken.   But the expression you have used (or it’s equivalent) has been put forward for descriptions of numerous ‘tweaks which affect the sound’ over the past 30 years.   Starting, I think, with the responses to Jean Hiraga’s (editor of the French Hi Fi Magazine) after he had stated that he could hear different cables produce different sounds.   The reactions to Jean Hiraga – 30 years ago – has been very well described by Keith Howard when he said that Hiraga’s observation created seismic shocks, within the audio world, the equivalent of eight on the audio Richter scale.   And caused responses such as “If you believe that standing on one leg and howling at the moon will make things more musical then do it....in the nude if you prefer”.

Nobody is suggesting that “If you stand on one leg and howl at the moon, things are more musical” but, Yes, people have and still DO react to others listening experiences with similar responses.   But people reacting like that, to certain articles, to other people’s experiences, does not mean that THEY are the only ones representative of  the 99% of the earth’s sane population.

The various reports of the effect on the sound from such devices as the Stein Music device, the Less Loss Blackbody device, the Schumann resonance device, applying a demagnetiser to vinyl and CDs are not written by any amateur Tom, Dick or Harry, casually coming in from the street to write.   The various reports – of the effect on the sound – have been serious reports, written by serious people, well experienced in listening, experienced in audio and the world of audio, as well as them having a more than casual understanding of conventional electronic and acoustic theories.   No one who values their standing and reputation in the world of audio would risk their reputation if they had not ACTUALLY heard the effects on their sound which they describe.   Many, if not all, of the people seriously describing their observations, are just as ‘sane, sensible, down to earth, both feet on the ground’ and just as representative of the 99% of the earth’s sane population you quote.

So, if people ARE interested in audio and in obtaining good sound, then surely such reports warrant more than the dismissive VOODOO, MAGIC, or “If you stand on one leg and howl at the moon, things will be more musical” jibes ?

Just this week, 30 YEARS after Jean Hiraga’s observations !!!, on another audio chat forum, someone has reported that they have heard considerable improvements in their sound by changing the AC power cable .with  the description:-

Quote:

“i knew that cables made a difference, but when it came to mains cables, i was a little more sceptical.   When it arrived, i popped it into the pre amp and had a listen. Straight away there was more refinement in all the frequencys and a quieter background.
There was a greater sense of seperation between instruments and vocals, which was most welcome. Safe to say, i was pleasantly suprised.”

The immediate response to those observations was :=

Quote:

“Nah, it's all in your imagination.   A change of mains cables cannot possibly make any improvements to the sounds you are hearing”

That response was no different, in essence, to your “If you stand on one leg and howl at the moon, things will be more musical” (in other words, it’s all in the imagination).   But the person who responded with “Nah, it's all in your imagination.   A change of mains cables cannot possibly make any improvements to the sounds you are hearing” DOES NOT MEAN that that person saying it is more sane than the other person !!!!   It merely means that that person has not yet heard (experienced) what the other person (persons) have heard (experienced) !!   Another common response regarding the effect on the sound of different AC power cables is "but there can’t be any changes in the sound from changing a few feet of mains cable because there's miles of copper cable between your wall socket and the power station".

But, such responses completely ignores (and therefore dismisses) many experienced listener’s observations !!

Similarly with people’s experiences in hearing the effect (improvement in the sound) of the tiny ART room devices.    People reporting their experiences does not place those people OUT OF the 99% of the earth’s sane population !!!!!!!   Which is what you infer with your response.

Regards,

May Belt,

Manufacturer.

JohnnyR
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Hoo Boy.....She's Back

"The various reports of the effect on the sound from such devices as the Stein Music device, the Less Loss Blackbody device, the Schumann resonance device, applying a demagnetiser to vinyl and CDs are not written by any amateur Tom, Dick or Harry, casually coming in from the street to write.   The various reports – of the effect on the sound – have been serious reports, written by serious people, well experienced in listening, experienced in audio and the world of audio, as well as them having a more than casual understanding of conventional electronic and acoustic theories."

 

Well then here is my serious reply,

Seriously?????? oops I almost forgot to include some !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me thinks they are just well experienced in being lazy and doing ZERO real world testing and writing up some tripe just to make their word quota for the next issue of whatever. May, your willingness to accept and to proclaim endless "tweaks"  that are laughable are well chronicled on here and needs no further reply. Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

geoffkait
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Sockpuppet Alert
JohnnyR wrote:

"The various reports of the effect on the sound from such devices as the Stein Music device, the Less Loss Blackbody device, the Schumann resonance device, applying a demagnetiser to vinyl and CDs are not written by any amateur Tom, Dick or Harry, casually coming in from the street to write.   The various reports – of the effect on the sound – have been serious reports, written by serious people, well experienced in listening, experienced in audio and the world of audio, as well as them having a more than casual understanding of conventional electronic and acoustic theories."

 

Well then here is my serious reply,

Seriously?????? oops I almost forgot to include some !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me thinks they are just well experienced in being lazy and doing ZERO real world testing and writing up some tripe just to make their word quota for the next issue of whatever. May, your willingness to accept and to proclaim endless "tweaks"  that are laughable are well chronicled on here and needs no further reply. Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An excellent example of a troll with nothing to say. You could at least pretend to know something on the subject. Besides, I was under the distinct impression that once a poster was banned here he's not supposed to come back as some bile spewing sockpuppet.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

JohnnyR
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Moron Alert
geoffkait wrote:
JohnnyR wrote:

"The various reports of the effect on the sound from such devices as the Stein Music device, the Less Loss Blackbody device, the Schumann resonance device, applying a demagnetiser to vinyl and CDs are not written by any amateur Tom, Dick or Harry, casually coming in from the street to write.   The various reports – of the effect on the sound – have been serious reports, written by serious people, well experienced in listening, experienced in audio and the world of audio, as well as them having a more than casual understanding of conventional electronic and acoustic theories."

 

Well then here is my serious reply,

Seriously?????? oops I almost forgot to include some !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me thinks they are just well experienced in being lazy and doing ZERO real world testing and writing up some tripe just to make their word quota for the next issue of whatever. May, your willingness to accept and to proclaim endless "tweaks"  that are laughable are well chronicled on here and needs no further reply. Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An excellent example of a troll with nothing to say. You could at least pretend to know something on the subject. Besides, I was under the distinct impression that once a poster was banned here he's not supposed to come back as some bile spewing sockpuppet. Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica

Oh I'm sorry and just who am I supposed to be in your delusional mind Mr Kait? Don't you have some more fraudulant products to make up to take simple minded people's money from? Talk about a troll, YOU are a prime example why no one comes to these forums.

geoffkait
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No one comes here?

"Talk about a troll, YOU are a prime example why no one comes to these forums."

Well, I wouldn't say no one. You do, pinhead.

Geoff Kait
Machina Damacles

JohnnyR
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Sticks and Stones

Same old tired insuts. Please troll some other forum and find some new material to steal Mr Fraud Nothing to respond to about May's post or did you just come on here as usual to show us your psychosis Mr Kait?

MarkBryston
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Hardly Trolling..
geoffkait wrote:
JohnnyR wrote:

"The various reports of the effect on the sound from such devices as the Stein Music device, the Less Loss Blackbody device, the Schumann resonance device, applying a demagnetiser to vinyl and CDs are not written by any amateur Tom, Dick or Harry, casually coming in from the street to write.   The various reports – of the effect on the sound – have been serious reports, written by serious people, well experienced in listening, experienced in audio and the world of audio, as well as them having a more than casual understanding of conventional electronic and acoustic theories."

 

Well then here is my serious reply,

Seriously?????? oops I almost forgot to include some !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me thinks they are just well experienced in being lazy and doing ZERO real world testing and writing up some tripe just to make their word quota for the next issue of whatever. May, your willingness to accept and to proclaim endless "tweaks"  that are laughable are well chronicled on here and needs no further reply. Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An excellent example of a troll with nothing to say. You could at least pretend to know something on the subject. Besides, I was under the distinct impression that once a poster was banned here he's not supposed to come back as some bile spewing sockpuppet. Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica

 

Geoffy ol boy,

how does asking that reviewers do some real world testing on unconventional audio items that claim to "dramatically" or otherwise change the audio signal constitute trolling???  Sounds like a legitimate question and a legitimate topic of conversation. The real problem is that many reviewers either simply quote the manufacturers claims or state they don't know how it works it just does...well that does come off as lazy..or at least the perception of lazy.

For example how hard is it to hypothesize a reason and test for it ...even reporting on the attempt to at least try..say the demagnetizing a vinyl record. Mikey says it makes a noticeable difference. Well he is perhaps the worlds leading authority on vinyl playback so he has at least earned the leeway to state his listening experience findings.  Why not then hypothesize as to the reason...its not that difficult. Perhaps it has more to do with the cartridge than the actual vinyl itself. Perhaps demagnetizing the vinyl leaves a negative magnetic field over the vinyl that dissipates over a short time but since the vast majority of audiophiles use moving coil cartridges and those are effected by demagnetization it is possible that the cartridge receives a demagnetizing effect while playing through the negative magnetizing field left on/over the vinyl. Real world test...does it work with a moving magnet or moving iron??? in theory the vinyl should sound worse because those carts should not be demagnetized at all..it can ruin them...simple hypothesis...simple real world test...that requires what about 15 minutes to swap out the carts and try it again.

Real world tests don't always have to be performed in a lab with electron microscopes. particle accelerators( although you seem to own one of your very own I hear) or any other outlandish equipment let alone the top of the line audio testing equipment already at Stereophile reviewers disposal.

When it comes to these unconventional tweaks I agree it should not be too much to ask that if one of these products makes it to stereophile pages that they should be analyzed with much greater scrutiny...in fact with the stein stuff I think they should have actually bought one and tore it apart and test it...who knows maybe they have a Skynet God chip or Mays tinfoil inside!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!( just for you ol boy)....If it can make the pages of stereophile then it should be opened....just like a tube amplifier or SACD player is done.

geoffkait
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Scrutinizing these unconventional tweaks
MarkBryston wrote:
geoffkait wrote:
JohnnyR wrote:

"The various reports of the effect on the sound from such devices as the Stein Music device, the Less Loss Blackbody device, the Schumann resonance device, applying a demagnetiser to vinyl and CDs are not written by any amateur Tom, Dick or Harry, casually coming in from the street to write.   The various reports – of the effect on the sound – have been serious reports, written by serious people, well experienced in listening, experienced in audio and the world of audio, as well as them having a more than casual understanding of conventional electronic and acoustic theories."

 

Well then here is my serious reply,

Seriously?????? oops I almost forgot to include some !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me thinks they are just well experienced in being lazy and doing ZERO real world testing and writing up some tripe just to make their word quota for the next issue of whatever. May, your willingness to accept and to proclaim endless "tweaks"  that are laughable are well chronicled on here and needs no further reply. Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An excellent example of a troll with nothing to say. You could at least pretend to know something on the subject. Besides, I was under the distinct impression that once a poster was banned here he's not supposed to come back as some bile spewing sockpuppet. Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica

 

Geoffy ol boy,

how does asking that reviewers do some real world testing on unconventional audio items that claim to "dramatically" or otherwise change the audio signal constitute trolling???  Sounds like a legitimate question and a legitimate topic of conversation. The real problem is that many reviewers either simply quote the manufacturers claims or state they don't know how it works it just does...well that does come off as lazy..or at least the perception of lazy.

For example how hard is it to hypothesize a reason and test for it ...even reporting on the attempt to at least try..say the demagnetizing a vinyl record. Mikey says it makes a noticeable difference. Well he is perhaps the worlds leading authority on vinyl playback so he has at least earned the leeway to state his listening experience findings.  Why not then hypothesize as to the reason...its not that difficult. Perhaps it has more to do with the cartridge than the actual vinyl itself. Perhaps demagnetizing the vinyl leaves a negative magnetic field over the vinyl that dissipates over a short time but since the vast majority of audiophiles use moving coil cartridges and those are effected by demagnetization it is possible that the cartridge receives a demagnetizing effect while playing through the negative magnetizing field left on/over the vinyl. Real world test...does it work with a moving magnet or moving iron??? in theory the vinyl should sound worse because those carts should not be demagnetized at all..it can ruin them...simple hypothesis...simple real world test...that requires what about 15 minutes to swap out the carts and try it again.

Real world tests don't always have to be performed in a lab with electron microscopes. particle accelerators( although you seem to own one of your very own I hear) or any other outlandish equipment let alone the top of the line audio testing equipment already at Stereophile reviewers disposal.

When it comes to these unconventional tweaks I agree it should not be too much to ask that if one of these products makes it to stereophile pages that they should be analyzed with much greater scrutiny...in fact with the stein stuff I think they should have actually bought one and tore it apart and test it...who knows maybe they have a Skynet God chip or Mays tinfoil inside!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!( just for you ol boy)....If it can make the pages of stereophile then it should be opened....just like a tube amplifier or SACD player is done.

Your hypothesis for how demagnetizing LPs is weak at best, do you really think this is the sort of thinking that reviewers should be doing? At the risk of being too bold, that's kind of like the blind leading the blind. By the way, what exactly is a negative magnetic field? LOL

If you really believe that opening up a device is the key to discovering how it works, or assessing its performance, allow me to disabuse you of your belief by pointing out the following devices: Schumann Frequency Generator, Shun Mook Mpingo Disc, Clever Little Clock, tiny little bowl resonators, the Intelligent Chip, and the SteinMusic Harmonizer. Follow?

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

MarkBryston
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you really dont get it do you....
geoffkait wrote:
MarkBryston wrote:
geoffkait wrote:
JohnnyR wrote:

"The various reports of the effect on the sound from such devices as the Stein Music device, the Less Loss Blackbody device, the Schumann resonance device, applying a demagnetiser to vinyl and CDs are not written by any amateur Tom, Dick or Harry, casually coming in from the street to write.   The various reports – of the effect on the sound – have been serious reports, written by serious people, well experienced in listening, experienced in audio and the world of audio, as well as them having a more than casual understanding of conventional electronic and acoustic theories."

 

Well then here is my serious reply,

Seriously?????? oops I almost forgot to include some !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me thinks they are just well experienced in being lazy and doing ZERO real world testing and writing up some tripe just to make their word quota for the next issue of whatever. May, your willingness to accept and to proclaim endless "tweaks"  that are laughable are well chronicled on here and needs no further reply. Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An excellent example of a troll with nothing to say. You could at least pretend to know something on the subject. Besides, I was under the distinct impression that once a poster was banned here he's not supposed to come back as some bile spewing sockpuppet. Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica

 

Geoffy ol boy,

how does asking that reviewers do some real world testing on unconventional audio items that claim to "dramatically" or otherwise change the audio signal constitute trolling???  Sounds like a legitimate question and a legitimate topic of conversation. The real problem is that many reviewers either simply quote the manufacturers claims or state they don't know how it works it just does...well that does come off as lazy..or at least the perception of lazy.

For example how hard is it to hypothesize a reason and test for it ...even reporting on the attempt to at least try..say the demagnetizing a vinyl record. Mikey says it makes a noticeable difference. Well he is perhaps the worlds leading authority on vinyl playback so he has at least earned the leeway to state his listening experience findings.  Why not then hypothesize as to the reason...its not that difficult. Perhaps it has more to do with the cartridge than the actual vinyl itself. Perhaps demagnetizing the vinyl leaves a negative magnetic field over the vinyl that dissipates over a short time but since the vast majority of audiophiles use moving coil cartridges and those are effected by demagnetization it is possible that the cartridge receives a demagnetizing effect while playing through the negative magnetizing field left on/over the vinyl. Real world test...does it work with a moving magnet or moving iron??? in theory the vinyl should sound worse because those carts should not be demagnetized at all..it can ruin them...simple hypothesis...simple real world test...that requires what about 15 minutes to swap out the carts and try it again.

Real world tests don't always have to be performed in a lab with electron microscopes. particle accelerators( although you seem to own one of your very own I hear) or any other outlandish equipment let alone the top of the line audio testing equipment already at Stereophile reviewers disposal.

When it comes to these unconventional tweaks I agree it should not be too much to ask that if one of these products makes it to stereophile pages that they should be analyzed with much greater scrutiny...in fact with the stein stuff I think they should have actually bought one and tore it apart and test it...who knows maybe they have a Skynet God chip or Mays tinfoil inside!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!( just for you ol boy)....If it can make the pages of stereophile then it should be opened....just like a tube amplifier or SACD player is done.

Your hypothesis for how demagnetizing LPs is weak at best, do you really think this is the sort of thinking that reviewers should be doing? At the risk of being too bold, that's kind of like the blind leading the blind. By the way, what exactly is a negative magnetic field? LOL If you really believe that opening up a device is the key to discovering how it works, or assessing its performance, allow me to disabuse you of your belief by pointing out the following devices: Schumann Frequency Generator, Shun Mook Mpingo Disc, Clever Little Clock, tiny little bowl resonators, the Intelligent Chip, and the SteinMusic Harmonizer. Follow? Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica

wow..you just don't get it do you...I never said that was an answer now did I??? I used an illustration on how easy it would be to hypothesize and test a real world idea in 15 minutes. Oh and field magnetics have positive and negative fields...umm I believe back in kindergarten you called them poles...but anyway if you spent the 15 minutes it took you to type one finger at a time you would have seen how easy it would be to test that theory...guess what...just in case you don't get it...the theory which is so weak should then be simply disproved by switching carts...see how easy that was??? instead of the voodoo artist like you refusing to do any tests hell my simple weak test blows every test you've ever done( which is none so it wasn't a fair fight) out of the water...but again you miss the point about coming up with an idea aka hypothesis( I assume you know what that is right?) and test it...simple easy and at least shows SOME effort by the reviewer to understand how it works...I swear geoffy...your so closed minded its scary and yet you call everyone else here closed minded...WOW...oops I mean LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh and I love how you are scared shitless about the idea that we open up these tweaks and find out how they work( or more probably why they don't work). And I love how you are quick to point out most of your examples that are simply your own...cuz yea opening up your voodoo devices would reveal absolutely NOTHING!!!

Oh and at least as it pertains to the Stein...anything that can be plugged into a wall socket for electricity must have something inside to analyze..if not it would be truly a complete fraud( kinda like the Skynet god chip or tinfoil or lava lamp or silly little clocks or bell shaped thingamajigs..or old man noises phone calls). The Stein must do something with that electricity if it is there( umm a hypothesis???) so tear it apart and lets see what the electricity is doing...at least that's a start. BTW I have yet to say the stein doesn't work because unlike your stuff which is pure fabrication maybe the stein does work..Sam heard something he liked and reported that others did as well...so enough qualified people heard something and reported it so that justifies further investigation..unlike your stuff that I posted in another thread where qualified people reported it was pure voodoo....

But we all understand how scary it is for you that someone investigate your stuff or open it up to find its nothing...nothing at all.

geoffkait
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Must be that time of the month

I can now certaintly understand, considering all your huffing and puffing, why you defended the other troll. Anyone who honestly believes he can open up any electronics device and determine how it works and what it's performance will be is misinformed, to say the least. Or believes that an audio device must operate electronically. LOL A suffiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Yes, opening up some of my products, or some other controversial tweaks, or examining them with an electron microscope will reveal nothing at all. That was exactly my point, Mr. Smarty Pants.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

JohnnyR
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More Horse Hockey
geoffkait wrote:

I can now certaintly understand, considering all your huffing and puffing, why you defended the other troll. Anyone who honestly believes he can open up any electronics device and determine how it works and what it's performance will be is misinformed, to say the least. Or believes that an audio device must operate electronically. LOL A suffiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Yes, opening up some of my products, or some other controversial tweaks, or examining them with an electron microscope will reveal nothing at all. That was exactly my point, Mr. Smarty Pants. Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica

 By your definition "troll" would include anyone who disagrees with your stupid worthless fraudulant products.

"A suffiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

Please, you use that tired old quote so many times in your defense when in fact anything you sell isn't advanced other than it's an advanced way to fleece the gullible.

"Yes, opening up some of my products, or some other controversial tweaks, or examining them with an electron microscope will reveal nothing at all"

Yeah we already knew that. Fraud is fraud.

May Belt
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Quote: “Sam heard
Quote:

“Sam heard something he liked and reported that others did as well...so enough qualified people heard something and reported it so that justifies further investigation..”

Surely that same reasoning applies to the numerous journalists who have reported on numerous other so called “tweaks” over these past 30 years ??    Surely “that justifies further investigation” is exactly what I have been saying ?   All I have added to that sentence of yours are the words “further discussion” – in the face of others’ responses of “it must be VOODOO” !!

Quote:

“When it comes to these unconventional tweaks I agree it should not be too much to ask that if one of these products makes it to stereophile pages that they should be analyzed with much greater scrutiny”

What exactly are you suggesting, Mark ?   Are you really suggesting that journalists after journalists, after journalists, after journalists, reporting on various ‘tweaks’ in Stereophile (and other magazines) over these past 30 years, should have kept quiet – should not have reported on their observations of the sound changing with various products IF they had not carried out any trials, or IF they had not “analyzed them with much greater scrutiny” ??   Aren’t they allowed to just report on their observations in the interests of informing others ?

Quote:

“say the demagnetizing a vinyl record. Mikey says it makes a noticeable difference. Well he is perhaps the worlds leading authority on vinyl playback so he has at least earned the leeway to state his listening experience findings.  Why not then hypothesize as to the reason...its not that difficult. Perhaps it has more to do with the cartridge than the actual vinyl itself. Perhaps demagnetizing the vinyl leaves a negative magnetic field over the vinyl that dissipates over a short time but since the vast majority of audiophiles use moving coil cartridges and those are effected by demagnetization it is possible that the cartridge receives a demagnetizing effect while playing through the negative magnetizing field left on/over the vinyl. Real world test...does it work with a moving magnet or moving iron??? in theory the vinyl should sound worse because those carts should not be demagnetized at all..it can ruin them...simple hypothesis...simple real world test...that requires what about 15 minutes to swap out the carts and try it again.”

So, Mark, how does all THAT testing you have just recommended explain the effect of improving the sound by applying a demagnetizer to CDs ???   How is changing a moving magnet cartridge for a moving iron cartridge going to explain ‘an effect on the sound’ by applying a demagnetizer to CDs ?

Quote:

“.If it can make the pages of stereophile then it should be opened....just like a tube amplifier or SACD player is done.”

If the numerous people who reported on hearing improvements in the sound after applying the green pen to the outer edges of CDs HAD actually opened up the pen, surely all they would have found would have been green ink.   What would THAT information have told them ?

Similarly with the cryogenic freezing of CDs and the cryogenic freezing of such as speaker cables, interconnects, integrated circuits, and musical instruments.    What would opening them up have told anyone about how the sound could have changed ?

Similarly, how could taking the ABC cable to pieces show how it could be sounding better than the XYZ cable ?

Quote:

“Sam heard something he liked and reported that others did as well...so enough qualified people heard something and reported it so that justifies further investigation..”

IF Sam (and others equally qualified) DID hear something they liked and the effect they heard was not VOODOO or MAGIC but was an actual improvement in the sound then Mark, if you are seriously interested in audio, the onus is as much on you to try to work out WHY, HOW, as it is on the reviewers and the manufacturers !!

 

Regards,

May Belt,

Manufacturer.

MarkBryston
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Just like Geoffy..May also doesn't get it.
May Belt wrote:
Quote:

“Sam heard something he liked and reported that others did as well...so enough qualified people heard something and reported it so that justifies further investigation..”

Surely that same reasoning applies to the numerous journalists who have reported on numerous other so called “tweaks” over these past 30 years ??    Surely “that justifies further investigation” is exactly what I have been saying ?   All I have added to that sentence of yours are the words “further discussion” – in the face of others’ responses of “it must be VOODOO” !!

Quote:

“When it comes to these unconventional tweaks I agree it should not be too much to ask that if one of these products makes it to stereophile pages that they should be analyzed with much greater scrutiny”

What exactly are you suggesting, Mark ?   Are you really suggesting that journalists after journalists, after journalists, after journalists, reporting on various ‘tweaks’ in Stereophile (and other magazines) over these past 30 years, should have kept quiet – should not have reported on their observations of the sound changing with various products IF they had not carried out any trials, or IF they had not “analyzed them with much greater scrutiny” ??   Aren’t they allowed to just report on their observations in the interests of informing others ?

Quote:

“say the demagnetizing a vinyl record. Mikey says it makes a noticeable difference. Well he is perhaps the worlds leading authority on vinyl playback so he has at least earned the leeway to state his listening experience findings.  Why not then hypothesize as to the reason...its not that difficult. Perhaps it has more to do with the cartridge than the actual vinyl itself. Perhaps demagnetizing the vinyl leaves a negative magnetic field over the vinyl that dissipates over a short time but since the vast majority of audiophiles use moving coil cartridges and those are effected by demagnetization it is possible that the cartridge receives a demagnetizing effect while playing through the negative magnetizing field left on/over the vinyl. Real world test...does it work with a moving magnet or moving iron??? in theory the vinyl should sound worse because those carts should not be demagnetized at all..it can ruin them...simple hypothesis...simple real world test...that requires what about 15 minutes to swap out the carts and try it again.”

So, Mark, how does all THAT testing you have just recommended explain the effect of improving the sound by applying a demagnetizer to CDs ???   How is changing a moving magnet cartridge for a moving iron cartridge going to explain ‘an effect on the sound’ by applying a demagnetizer to CDs ?

Quote:

“.If it can make the pages of stereophile then it should be opened....just like a tube amplifier or SACD player is done.”

If the numerous people who reported on hearing improvements in the sound after applying the green pen to the outer edges of CDs HAD actually opened up the pen, surely all they would have found would have been green ink.   What would THAT information have told them ?

Similarly with the cryogenic freezing of CDs and the cryogenic freezing of such as speaker cables, interconnects, integrated circuits, and musical instruments.    What would opening them up have told anyone about how the sound could have changed ?

Similarly, how could taking the ABC cable to pieces show how it could be sounding better than the XYZ cable ?

Quote:

“Sam heard something he liked and reported that others did as well...so enough qualified people heard something and reported it so that justifies further investigation..”

IF Sam (and others equally qualified) DID hear something they liked and the effect they heard was not VOODOO or MAGIC but was an actual improvement in the sound then Mark, if you are seriously interested in audio, the onus is as much on you to try to work out WHY, HOW, as it is on the reviewers and the manufacturers !!

 

Regards,

May Belt,

Manufacturer.

You know how you can tell a beaten and abused dog...it flinches. You and Geoffy are truly beaten dogs. You so flinched when you read my post that you didn’t even begin to grasp it...just like Geoffy.

The point is that reviewers should at least attempt to understand through real world testing these unconventional tweaks. I gave a simple example that I never claimed was real or the truth bit rather how easy it is to hypothesize and test something. Course I knew that you and Geoffy would jump on the straw man like a ravage dog missing the whole point...but I figured that after Geoffy did it before you that you would see it for the example it was...but nope..you flinched without thinking it through. Instead you and geoffy get all into arguing the example...why??? You miss the point all together...I could care less about the demag of cd's, cables or even the vinyl...that isn’t the point puppy. The point is a claim was made that demagging vinyl made a difference in the sound...I could care less about Cd's or anything else...You take a claim and you hypothesize as to why and you test it...pure and simple...see this is why I think you and geoffy aren’t true manufacturers and geoffy is no scientist..you puppies cant see simple scientific research. I then simple gave a simple everyman real world test idea. Hell for all I know it doesn’t prove jack shit but all that means is another hypothesis is required...hmmm that is called hypothesis testing. Quit flinching and think!

And of course you bring up another pseudo tweak in the green pen and then say if they had opened it all they would have found was green ink. Well then that is one hell of a reason TO open the green pen. since people/reviewers heard a difference then it should have been opened and analyzed...especially since the manufacturer claimed it wasn’t the same ink as a typical magic marker or sharpie. Stereophile or any other competent reviewer should have had opened and tested the pen..had they found your hypothesis to be true I could then go out and buy a 99 cent marker at my office store instead of the $10 audiophile pen. So your example whether it had a special ink or standard ink would have greatly benefited the reader to know this information..so your example itself shows exactly why hypothesis testing should be done.

But I find it humorous that you find it hard to consider taking apart or analyzing audio devices to see what makes them work or why they work...why not compare a cryo treated cable from one that hasn’t been...or taking apart different cables to see what makes them sound different??? What are you afraid of??? How can you or geoffy claim to be anything other than snake oil salesman when you are terrified to know how or why audioquest cables are made differently from radio shack cables and why those differences would or could lead to different sound??? are you afraid that yours and geoffys tinfoil and lava lamps will be exposed for the frauds they are??? oh yea..you are. So let’s not test anything!! That is your puppies answers to everything...just trust you it works...and just for Geoffy...LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and its only my onus to prove or test something if I claim I hear a difference...I did not get paid by stereophile to write a review of the Stein...Sam did...Its up to Sam to investigate this...and to a degree he did..so why not take the next step and open it??? What are you afraid of??? Pandora's box???

I would say for you and Geoffy to quit acting like beaten puppies but I guess you cant..you are beaten puppies...constantly peddling snake oil and voodoo gadgets will get you that.

But just to summarize my post...there is nothing wrong with hypothesis testing..it can be simple and real world..it can confirm/prove or not..but it should be done just like stereophile has no problem doing with conventional audio equipment....so why not tweaks????????

JohnnyR
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Joined: Sep 10 2011 - 10:12am
Amen

"see this is why I think you and geoffy aren’t true manufacturers and geoffy is no scientist..you puppies cant see simple scientific research"

It's laughable to think that either May or Mr Kait make ANYTHING. It's just rebadging or marking up the price a thousand fold on common objects that they have no idea how to make themselves. Then to claim said objects do ANYTHING at all to alter the sound of audio equipment is again laughable.May would probably shriek and turn to dust if given a real science book and Mr Kait would froth at the mouth and howl at the moon if shown the same.
Yes it's high time that "reviewers" in not only Stereophile but all audio magazines stop with the "I hear this so it must work" BS and SHOW how the object changes the sound through......wait for it.........TESTING. Gosh novel idea isn't it? Actually taking the time to TEST a product under review. Why don't they do it? Well we all know money could be a factor, now how you wish to figure that into the equation is for the reader to figure out on his/her own. Considering another poster on these forums got called out for suggesting that money loss influenced a review, I wouldn't dare do the same. Maybe then it's laziness, ineptitude or they just don't care.

RGibran
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Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: Oct 11 2005 - 5:50pm
Winning Bidder
mjalazard wrote:

Now Geoff will sell you a "Quantum Temple Bell is a handheld brass bell of the type used in feng shui space clearing rituals that has been extensively modified to improve effectiveness for audio and video performance."

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?accstwek&1319074693

I think he's clearing out his garage.

Mike
 

 

I think you may have missed the joke.  The winning bidder was

 

 

RG

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