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ncdrawl
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Farewell Dame Joan.
geoffkait
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan. *DELETED*

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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.


Quote:
Geez, for a second I thought you might've been referring to Joan Baez...


Not in the same league. Ms Baez, although a sincere and unpretentious artist, had nothing special about her voice. She could never control that exaggerated tremolo.
Joan Sutherland, on the other hand, had one of the greatest voices to grace the planet. She was also a very down to earth diva. I have fond memories of her being in front of me at the Sydney Opera House food queue when she told me- " You duck in front of me dear, I'm waiting for Richard' I then overheard her telling someone "Yes, I was going to have this color carpet in my house but it always looks so scruffy, don't you think"
She will be missed sadly by younger singers whom she always gave generous and unstinting support to. Think I'll be pulling out all my Dame Joan opera LP's tonight for a sad session with a few of her glorious recordings.

geoffkait
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan. *DELETED*

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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.


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Ms Baez, although a sincere and unpretentious artist, had nothing special about her voice.

Yeah, right.

I agree with Geoff, I found Ms. Baez to have a very special voice: irritating monotonous, and self-righteous sounding.

geoffkait
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan. *DELETED*

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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.


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That's odd, your description reminds me of someone who constantly posts directly after me on these boards. Can you guess who I'm referring to?

Interesting. Perhaps you could go over to the Dead Zone and check who had started the thread you polluted with your stalking BS.

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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.


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I agree with Geoff, I found Ms. Baez to have a very special voice: irritating monotonous, and self-righteous sounding.

The only thing I can't stand about Vol. 5. I finally had to delete them from the server!

JasonVSerinus
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.

My tribute to Dame Joan Sutherland will soon appear on the home page of this website. Known as La Stupenda, she was definitely the finest coloratura soprano of the LP era.

At the age of 16, I attended Sutherland's debut at the Met. It was one of the peak experiences of my life. Another was hearing Joan Baez's Christmas album playing over the sound system as I approached Nepenthe (sp?) restaurant during a solo camping trip to Big Sur on Christmas eve, ca. 1972 or 1973.

Here's hoping my tribute to Sutherland won't produce yet another flame war. God, don't you boys ever rest in peace? Why don't you listen to recordings by one of the great Joans instead?

jason victor serinus

JSBach
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ms Baez, although a sincere and unpretentious artist, had nothing special about her voice.

Yeah, right.



Quote:
I agree with Geoff, I found Ms. Baez to have a very special voice: irritating monotonous, and self-righteous sounding.



Quote:
That's odd, your description reminds me of someone who constantly posts directly after me on these boards. Can you guess who I'm referring to?


ncdrawl
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.

I would've thought you'd enjoy seeing boys tussle, Ms. Mordentroge.

ncdrawl
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.

Actually, I think the Fantastic Luisa Tetrazzini was a MUCH much better singer...*SHE* was the greatest in my opinion.

I did not like Ms. Sutherland's treatment of Norma, and found her voice not to my taste in many roles, although I did like her Lucia better than most!

at any rate, it is a great loss.

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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.


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I would've thought you'd enjoy seeing boys tussle, Ms. Mordentroge.

Yes, tussle, not bitch !

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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.


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Actually, I think the Fantastic Luisa Tetrazzini was a MUCH much better singer...*SHE* was the greatest in my opinion.

Granted Sutherland's output was variable. Some of her recordings, although musically astonishing, are ruined by appalling diction. However, given the compromised sound quality of Tetrazzini's recordings I don't know how we can assuredly judge her against Sutherland.
If we're talking about great female singers who performed a different repertoire than either of those great dames I'd vote for Elizabeth Schwarzkopf every time as the greatest ever. Many would nominate Callas but to my ears she always sang with a mouth full of custard . YUK !

JasonVSerinus
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.

Thank God, we are now talking about opera rather than turning the forum into an opera all its own.

As someone who teaches classes about great vocal recordings, I am not going to take sides. I would simply point out that Luisa Tetrazzini never recorded or, as far as I know, performed Norma. (I'm writing this without fact checking). Her voice, to these ears, lacked the requisite weight, especially in mid-voice.

For the greatest Norma I have ever experienced, see the DVD of Caballe's 1974 assumption in the outdoor arena of L'Orange. (I think I've got that right). When I played part of it in one of my classes, people moaned when I had to stop because time had run out.

I saw Sutherland do Norma at SFO in late career. Some of the beauty on top was diminished, but the power remained.

My tribute is now on the homepage if you'd like to take a look.

jason

ncdrawl
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.

I also prefer Kathleen Battle. JVS, your critique of Tetrazzini's mid-voice sums up exactly how I feel about Ms. Sutherland! Her top end was silvery and pure, but the low/mid voice lacked heft. Overly shrill voices bug me, especially when there is sense of the upper register being disconnected from the other Passaggios. Ms. Sutherland was spotty in that regard.

JasonVSerinus
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.


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Overly shrill voices bug me, especially when there is sense of the upper register being disconnected from the other Passaggios. Ms. Sutherland was spotty in that regard.

Hi there

The passagio is the transition place between registers. I believe you're using the word incorrectly.

While, as is the case with virtually all singers, Sutherland's high range had different color and volume than the rest, it was not disconnected. She was able to flawlessly negotiate two octave runs without any discernible break.

jason

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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.


Quote:

Quote:
Overly shrill voices bug me, especially when there is sense of the upper register being disconnected from the other Passaggios. Ms. Sutherland was spotty in that regard.

Hi there

The passagio is the transition place between registers. I believe you're using the word incorrectly.

While, as is the case with virtually all singers, Sutherland's high range had different color and volume than the rest, it was not disconnected. She was able to flawlessly negotiate two octave runs without any discernible break.

jason


Is it possible that some judgments we form, if based on recorded performance rather than attending live concerts, can be skewered by less than perfect reproduction?
Last night, in memory of Dame Joan, I listened to Semiramide with Sutherland, Horne, Rouleau etc under Bonynge ( Decca LP SETA 317/9). It's a long time since I played this and on a very different system than I have now. Previously I hadn't paid much attention to Marilyn Horn's contribution but this time, on my current system, her power, assurance and dramatic expression knocked be over. In fact the quality of the recording in general astonished me. Sometimes the old LP medium still has the power to enthrall me totally.

ncdrawl
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.

[quote=JVS] using the word incorrectly (snip)

duly noted.... hmm....my post did not make it through in its entirety maybe I accidentally deleted it or something.*an ongoing problem here on this forum* I actually typed that I could sometimes hear her Passaggio/break point, that at times there seemed to be a lack of "fluidity" between the register shifts. Maybe I am being too critical as much of what I heard was later in her life.
btw, JVS, I speak not as fan, but as a professional Basso Profundo with a a vocal performance degree. I've been singing classical music professionally since age 18( I am 30 now). I do a lot more singing than reviewing, so my "review speak" leaves something to be desired.

one day, hopefully you'll be reviewing *my* performance of Rocco, Pimen, Gurnemanz, Il Commendatore, or Fafner... I have high aspirations, though I am too young now(or my voice is, I should say) to handle any of these.. have sung Sparafucile and Papageno though and a lot of chorus work. (and about 100 performances of Messiah and various other oratorios..!)

JasonVSerinus
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.

Great to hear, Teddy. So, where are you located, and what's your real name?

I've just been copying some tracks by Pinza, Chaliapin, and Pol Plancon for my class.

Joanie was already in her prime when she was making her debuts. But her voice remained steady and secure through the '70s and even into the early '80s. Then, the beginnings of a wobble, and .........

jason reviewing Madama Butterfly at SFO tonight
You can read my reviews at sfcv.org and ebar.com. Search under my name.

ncdrawl
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Re: Farewell Dame Joan.

Hey JVS, Teddy is my real name. ! I am located in Ohio, just moved here from NC..before that spent a VERY long time in Germany.

Im enjoying some Rene Pape right now. He is my favorite modern bass. (Jerome Hines is my favorite of all time and of course James Morris)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQTNdi-zX0g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6IYC9gEOp0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKgYLDDkIek&feature=related

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