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Ergonaut
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10 that changed the world

What is your top 10 Hi-Fi Milestones ?

Mine

Hifi that changed the world forever; Top 10 (no particular order)

Spendor BC1
SME 3009
Linn Sondek LP12
Krell KSA Series
Quad ESL 57
Marantz 1300 DC
Naim NAC32 -NAP 250 combination
IMF TLS80
Meridian 206 Delta Sigma
Apple iPOD

Jan Vigne
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Your list seems awfully heavily weighted toward Western World audio produced after 1970.

smejias
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Great topic, Ergonaut. My list will probably be awfully heavily weighted towards Stereophile-reviewed gear post 2000, but I'll give it a shot...

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Re: 10 that changed the world

Mine will be weighted by my own personal Hi Fi trip, so I have no clue what decade it will represent...

Speakers first:

Spica TC-50

Dahlquist DQ-10

AR 9 and AR 90

Acoustat 2+2

Apogee ribbons...

Large Advents

A/D/S' line of soft dome mids and tweeters with mid-sized multpile woofers...was it the LS 810? The C-300 rocked for a car speaker.

Pyramid (Sequerra) Metronome

Sonus Faber Extrema

Klipsch La Scala

DCM Time Window

The Lowther driver

CECE
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Re: 10 that changed the world

AVA highly affordable superb performing amps/pre amps/DAC/Phase inverters
Legacy Speakers
Philips CD system
BASF magnetic recording tape
Philips compact cassette
Emil Berliner Gramaphone
33 1/3 LP
Audi Quattro
Gun Powder
Air
Water
Firewood
Fire

bobedaone
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Re: 10 that changed the world

I saw an Audi RS6 the other day. When it was at the light, I wasn't sure, but it pulled away and the exhaust told the whole story. Great car.

cyclebrain
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Re: 10 that changed the world

10 that changed the audio world should be a list of names, not products.

Faraday
Marconi
Maxwell
Paul Klipsch
James Lansing
David Hafler
Saul Marantz
Nyquist

Jan Vigne
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Re: 10 that changed the world

It's your list, cyclebrain, and you get to put on whatever you wish, but ...

I never felt Klipsch did anything Lansing hadn't already managed except avoid fights and lawsuits. Both owed quite a bit to Bell Labs. Hafler was out of town when his greatest product was designed though DynaQuad was nice it and paved the way for Ray Dolby, who also owes his fame to Bell Labs. Saul Marantz didn't design his best stuff either. Marantz's most important contribution, IMO, was trying to make something better than Frank McIntosh could manage. He ended up selling the company to SuperScope when he found out he couldn't - unless you count the 10B which really only looked cooler than a MR71 and the sale to the Japanese company led to the horsepower race of the 1970's. Hafler, McIntosh and Marantz all followed Williamson. Hirsch only figured out how to bring in more advertising dollars than the guys at "Audio" and Holt had a more lasting effect. Just look at all the internet audio review magazines, none of them emulate Hirsch.

So where's Vilchur and Kloss? Where would we be without the suspended subchassis turntables and sealed enclosures? And Lee DeForest? If he hadn't improved the Fleming diode, we'd still be using cactus needles and metal horns. Without Blumlein we wouldn't have the ability to record anything other than mono.

Keeping this list down to ten will be very difficult.

bobedaone
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Re: 10 that changed the world

I need to throw in Dusty Vawter for bringing high-end digital to the masses.

Mark Levinson!

Let's expand the list to 20.

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Re: 10 that changed the world

Can I get an amen for Roy Gandy and his Planar turntables and RB-series tonearms?

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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:
10 that changed the audio world should be a list of names, not products.

Faraday
Marconi
Maxwell
Paul Klipsch
James Lansing
David Hafler
Saul Marantz
Nyquist

Elk
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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:
Thanks for the compliment, but I don't think reviewers change the world, they merely comment on the changes they observe.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Yes, but without the reviewers the world wouldn't know that it had changed.

Elk
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Re: 10 that changed the world

In the narrow Elkian world:

Little DLK speakers that I bought at age 10 that - powered by my receiver - made sounds that I recognized as actual instruments - suddenly I could hear that it was a string quartet recorded on my LP. (The DLK speaker line was the house speaker Schaak Electronics, a long-gone Midwest electronics store chain.)

The TEAC 2340 reel-to-reel multitrack recorder, four tracks on

Jan Vigne
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Sorry, I should have included my question in that last post. Cyclebrain, why did you choose to include Hafler, Marantz and Klipsch? I'm not denying their contributions to audio, but they occurred at a time of tremendous activity and they built upon the work of others as much as they laid the foundations for those who followed. Or, taking Marantz as an example, I don't think his products would have existed as they did without McIntosh and Fisher being there beforehand or without Williamson. So, how'd you pick?

cyclebrain
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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:
Sorry, I should have included my question in that last post. Cyclebrain, why did you choose to include Hafler, Marantz and Klipsch? I'm not denying their contributions to audio, but they occurred at a time of tremendous activity and they built upon the work of others as much as they laid the foundations for those who followed. Or, taking Marantz as an example, I don't think his products would have existed as they did without McIntosh and Fisher being there beforehand or without Williamson. So, how'd you pick?

Well first I created a list of all people throughout history that were involved in inventing electricity and or audio electronics. I then rated them based on their contribution giving additional points for earlier developments. I then converted this data to digital and performed an FFT on the data.

Really, I just made it up mostly from names that influenced me when I was in high school (mid 70s).
10 really is way too small of a sample size.
I wanted to include Amar Bose just to get some of you going, but just couldn't do it.

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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:

I wanted to include Amar Bose just to get some of you going, but just couldn't do it.

smejias
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Re: 10 that changed the world

For me:
JA, J-10, AD, WP, ST, KK, Jon Iverson, George Reisch, John DeVore, George Kaye, Mark Levinson, Daniel Sandmeier, Christian Green, Claybourne White, John K. Wood, Buddha, Clifton, Monty, Jeff Wong, Steve Silberman, Gordon Sell, Bryan Stanton, Antony Michaelson, Michael Lavorgna, Vinnie Rossi, Erik Bobeda, Harry O'Sullivan, Lorraine Janeway, Hart Huschens, Irv Gross, Fred Manteghian, Yoav G., the woman in white, oh snap, I lost count.

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Re: 10 that changed the world

You forgot to mention, DUP.

cyclebrain
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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:

Quote:
Julian Hirsch
John Atkinson

Thanks for the compliment, but I don't think reviewers change the world, they merely comment on the changes they observe.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile (who wishes the rate of change of world-changing was a little less frantic)

Don't sell yourself short. While you may not create new technology that changes audio, you do have a major influence on the interface between the industry and the audiophile. Your reports using little hype and much fact, while boring to some, create trust and respect from others.
While I know that Julian Hersch gets little respect here I read his reports and even did a freshman english paper on transient intermodulation distortion back in 1977 based on a Stereo Review story.

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Re: 10 that changed the world

1. The first Greek amphitheater.

2. Marconi and Edison.....You need them first.

3. The vacuum tube.

4. The solid state transistor.

5. Philco......they did for early hi-fi what Ford did for automobiles.

6. Invention of the the 'Q-tip'....darn ear wax build-up!

7. Kloss and Advent.....that was my first system in the early 70's ..... Jeesh!!!!

8. Linn TT, Mac Tube amp and Dahlquist speakers......The first REAL system I ever heard.

9. My dear friend Rod, who taught me how to listen.

10. The Internet

and a list of a few things that tried to undo all the good:

1. Monster

2. Bose

3. Any company that sells cables for more than $300

4. Home theater in a box.

5. Brittany Spears

6. The Internet

bobedaone
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Re: 10 that changed the world

While I see a lot of truth in your list (and recognize the humorous parts, as well ), I'm having trouble with your $300 cable ceiling. It's not that it's absurd on its face (in fact, it seems like a reasonable figure), it's just that any limit is somewhat arbitrary. Is any company selling cables for over $300 trying to rip you off? What makes selling them for $200 okay? Or, to put it another way, I've never spent more than $50 on a single pair of cables. Does it make sense for me to say "Any company that sells cables for more than $50 does not display good business practices"?

My point is that ANY investment in copper, beyond the freebies that come with new equipment, is an implied admission that cable design is important. Who are we, then, to set the limit on cable price?

I can't speak for discernible differences between the "good" cable and the "second mortgage" cable. What I will say is that, since the audio enthusiast community has expressed an interest in cable design, companies have invested a great deal of time and money in the pursuit of improvement. Whether the improvements are audible is irrelevant; We're paying for R&D, materials, and manufacturing.

Is the Bugatti Veyron better than the Porsche 911 Turbo? I would argue that it is not. However, I also wouldn't point a finger at Volkswagen for building the thing; There is, after all, a market. I'd venture a guess that they're the same people who are gobbling up Odin wire by the yard.

Regards,

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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:
and a list of a few things that tried to undo all the good:

While a misdirect of the original post, could be entertaining.

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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:

Quote:
and a list of a few things that tried to undo all the good:

While a misdirect of the original post, could be entertaining.

Hey - go right ahead -- if someone wants to put up a top 10 hi-fi turkeys, that would be fun also...I'm gonna have a think first.

/scratches head

CECE
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Re: 10 that changed the world

The 911 ain't got no 1001 HP Nor does it reach teh top speed of teh Bugatti. It has upped the street leagal race car big time. I'll have to try both to see which one i prefer though. Specs ya know can't convey the full impact of teh experience right? What kind of tires do you put on a Million dollar car anyway? Does it come with Sirius at least? The R8 from Audi in a recent write up is said to out do the 911. Seems like Porsche has to do some work and make an improved 911? But then they now own 31% of VW keeping it in the family, so why do they keep out doing themselves? Bugatti beats Lamborghini which is also VW? I don't know which one i should get now

cyclebrain
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Why compare the 911 to the Verizon? You should be comparing the Carrera to it.
But my Ducati does 0 to 60 in 2.8sec and tops out at 175mph for only $15,000. And also lands my ass in jail and my bike in impound. Sorry that your police impala only goes 130.
I still love my old oversteering 77 911S. Great fun and rewards only on the rare occasion when I get every thing right. Mostly points out my flaws.

CECE
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Dave HAfler brought high end to teh masses for decades, a pioneer. Dusty did not, Audio Alchemy failed big time, the stuff was not priced as a bargain. I also have some of teh stuff. It was a fad marketing scheme

bobedaone
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Re: 10 that changed the world

My intention was to create an analogy to the cable market, wherein one product performs very well and is priced reasonably, and another performs (perhaps) a bit better, and is stratospheric in cost.

The point I was making was that companies will manufacture the products that they perceive as marketable. It's not Nordost's fault that some folks feel dandy about spending thousands of dollars on fancy copper, and the company owes no apologies for selling it.

Another valid analogy is that of brand positioning via the halo effect; If I remember correctly, Volkswagen lose money on every Veyron they sell, but sell the car to enhance the image of the brand. In fact, there are rumored plans for a "baby Bugatti", to sell in the $100k range. Just as the Veyron will encourage sales of the more affordable car, Odin and Valhalla attract customers who may leave with something less costly, such as Heimdall.

This isn't a car forum, and I didn't mean to create any confusion in that regard, or to send the thread drastically off-topic.

The problem - if one indeed exists - is not that companies sell absurdly expensive wires, but rather that consumers are convinced that they need such products.

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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:
10 that changed the audio world should be a list of names, not products.

Pick any ten you like.

(Listed in no particular order of importance or time period.)

Edison
DeForest
Blumlein
Bell Labs
Victor Corporation
BBC
Texas Instruments
Peter Goldmark
Rice and Kellogg
Chave and Voigt
Kloss and Vilchur
Alec Reeves
Akio Morita
Williamson
William Johnson
Avery Fisher
Sydney Harman, Matti Otalla, Fred Toole, etc.
Ray Dolby
Peter Walker
J. Gordon Holt
Jean Hiraga
Ken Ishiwata
Be Yamamura

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Re: 10 that changed the world

people that changed the world
(in no order)
Saul Marantz-advancing tube technology
Peter Walker-advancing speaker technology
Joe Grado-advancing cartridge technology
Jon Dahlquist-advancing speaker technology
Ivor Tiefenbrun-advancing turntable technology
Henry Kloss-advancing audio & video technology
Paul Klipsch-advancing speaker technology
William Johnson-advancing tube technology
David Hafler-advancing electronics technology
Sidney Harman-advancing manufacturing/marketing

special mention
J. Gordon Holt/Harry Pearson-advancing audio awareness

as any other list, this one is subject to debate for its inclusions and omissions.

CECE
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Fletcher-Munson
Laurent
VanAlstine
Emile Berliner
Anton & Garrad PHILIPS
Les Paul
Mary's little LAMB
BASF
PHILIPS
All the delivery trucks who delivered all the HAFLERS
Edgar Vilchur's parents
Bank that loaned money to David Hafler
Wili Studer
Shure Bro's
Dr. Sennheiser
Peter Jensen
Bill Dudleston
The man who shot Liberty Valance

Jan Vigne
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Re: 10 that changed the world

.

Colnmary
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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:
people that changed the world
(in no order)
Saul Marantz-advancing tube technology
Peter Walker-advancing speaker technology
Joe Grado-advancing cartridge technology
Jon Dahlquist-advancing speaker technology
Ivor Tiefenbrun-advancing turntable technology
Henry Kloss-advancing audio & video technology
Paul Klipsch-advancing speaker technology
William Johnson-advancing tube technology
David Hafler-advancing electronics technology
Sidney Harman-advancing manufacturing/marketing

special mention
J. Gordon Holt/Harry Pearson-advancing audio awareness

as any other list, this one is subject to debate for its inclusions and omissions.

Now this has to be one of the most intelligent and best thought out lists I have seen.

Ergonaut
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Hehe

Non of you put Bob Carver in any of your lists
...Amplifier guru? or wheel re-inventor?

CECE
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Marketeer..none of his "inovations" stick...nonsense. How many companies names came and went under Carver....certainly ain't no hi fi guru, marketing.

Jan Vigne
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Re: 10 that changed the world

By that logic; how many companies had the name Hafler associated with their product? How many companies owned the Marantz name? How many magazines did Holt write for?

Just what do you think the audio "business" is, dup, if not marketing? Different companies take different approaches to the same task, but in the end, it's all marketing. Whether the company is actively running ads in a dozen magazines a month or not, it's all marketing.

CECE
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Hafler ideas are still running strong today decades after the companies are gone. He only had 2 companies both super succesful Dynaco and Hafler. Mattero fact products from both companeis are still going well. Carver stuff is a big ZERO. Carver was a bunch of hooie. Hafler was a pioneer, and inovator. Completely changed hi fi with Dynaco, then Hafler Hafler was the first to use MOSFETS in audio amps, intorduced quality hi fi to the masses,with Dynaco in teh 50's. ST-70 is still in use and discussions. Hafler DH500 Pro 500 STILL cranking sonic excellence, matter o fact several in use here with AVA rebuilds, into the 21st century. Faster ckts, modern components. Hafler is in the leauge with Kloss,Vilchur, Marantz,etc. so many inovations, that changed the industry. Ideas that hold up.

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Re: 10 that changed the world

ok here are my second tier 10 best (or 2nd annual) in no particular order

Jim Fosgate-sound processing
Tomlinson Holman-sound processing
Ray Dolby-sound processing
Bob Carver-technology and marketing
Roy Allison-speaker technology
Jim Winey-speaker technology
Amar Bose-audio marketing
Edgar Vilchur-speaker technology
Sugano Yoshiaki-catridge technology
John Curl-solid state technology

how about anyone else's 2nd tier?

Jan Vigne
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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:
... Hafler was the first to use MOSFETS in audio amps.

Really?! I wouldn't have known that if you hadn't posted it 100 times.

CECE
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Re: 10 that changed the world

This is short attention span forum, you needs constant remindering. I just made a new wurd.

Jan Vigne
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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:
I just made a new wurd.

And it rhymes with ...

Oh, that wasn't your new word?

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Re: 10 that changed the world

Some amazing stuff on this one so far...and probably a little cameo of what has gone wrong (or right?) in the near fifty years of hi-fi since it came along as 'stereo' in the late 1950's...a complete techie takeover with the media / artists / record companies getting as much credit as you wipe off a shoe when something squelches underfoot...

DUP's list was a step in the right direction...music changed my hi-fi life and the lives of everyone on forums such as these...whether they choose to admit it or not is another matter...the technology came a close second for me...it still does...

Elvis, Beatles, Led Zep, Pink Floyd and Leonard Cohen are my top five (in no special order) then any five from any techie list on here as I feel sure they can all make the media sound the way I wanted it at the time...

Jan Vigne
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Why not add Jonas Salk? He certainly changed a lot of lives for those of us in the boomer generation. I understand the soundstage gets skewed when the signal bounces off your iron lung machine.

dormston
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Jonas who? Was he the guy that went scuba diving inside the whale...

Iron lung? Great idea, wish I had thought of that one...could have saved a fortune on tuners over the years...just plug in anywhere and get the vibes...where can I find a review...

Hey it's good to see you and DUP still the best of buddies, eh?

cyclebrain
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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
and a list of a few things that tried to undo all the good:

While a misdirect of the original post, could be entertaining.

Hey - go right ahead -- if someone wants to put up a top 10 hi-fi turkeys, that would be fun also...I'm gonna have a think first.

/scratches head

Good job guys. I really thought that a negative list would take off. But after I thought about it, I couldn't do it.
And to my surprise no one else did either.

Many names listed that I don't recognize. That's a good thing. I don't know it all.

cyclebrain
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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:
Why not add Jonas Salk? He certainly changed a lot of lives for those of us in the boomer generation. I understand the soundstage gets skewed when the signal bounces off your iron lung machine.

Or that Frouwd guy? It's your mothers fault that a pair of tubes sound better then a pair of silicon devices.

dormston
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Re: 10 that changed the world

Oh yes, I missed that one...many thanks! Those that want to be identified in the 'boomer generation' invariably turn out to be the sort that were fired against the wall and hatched in the sun...BOOM, SPLAT...and the rest is history!

I was afraid to show my ignorance by trying to associate Jonah with anything hifi / musical in any way...but figured that turning an iron lung into a tuner should be possible...maybe a weak link, but with today's technology, who knows? Good thing I never took such meaningless insults as a personal attack, just imagine how I would be feeling if I did have to rely upon medical technolgy to stay alive...nasty vitriolic verbiage...and for what gain I wonder? Any ideas? Not much point in asking Jan I guess...

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Re: 10 that changed the world


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
and a list of a few things that tried to undo all the good:

While a misdirect of the original post, could be entertaining.

Hey - go right ahead -- if someone wants to put up a top 10 hi-fi turkeys, that would be fun also...I'm gonna have a think first.

/scratches head

Good job guys. I really thought that a negative list would take off. But after I thought about it, I couldn't do it.
And to my surprise no one else did either.

Many names listed that I don't recognize. That's a good thing. I don't know it all.

I did do 10 of my Hi-fi turkeys in a different thread -- but you're right - it is harder...but there is some amusing crap that has happened in the past.

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