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geoffkait
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In your peculiar case
michael green wrote:

A CD can only make sound when you play it, unless you have an invisible tweak for that as well :)

How could someone possibly call any source bad sounding before it is played geoff?

I didn't know saying hi to friends was name dropping or a sign of insecurity, so thanks for that advice. It's ok if I call my sister today right? I'd hate to be calling her out of my insecurities :)

Trust me geoff, after a year with you it's pretty sure I know your meaning and agenda.

But, my agenda is to simply use you at this point to promote tuning.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Not before you play the CD, my dense little friend, before you tweak the system. Or in your peculiar case, before you tune the system. Follow? Don't you have someone there who doesn't have a reading comprehension disability?

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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good morning geoff

Had an all-night session.

I do understand what you are saying and have all along, but you and I have two different approaches to listening.

When I put on a piece of music I listen for certain cues and then decide if I wish to make any adjustments. You take the approach and believe in fixing a system or recording as if it is broken, and I take the approach of tuning the recording to the playback setup.

I don't look at the recording or the system as being bad or broken. I look at the piece of music much like I do a guitar. When out of tune it's so so, when in-tune I get to hear what the recording has and how it was done.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

michael green
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for Ron

Hi Ron

Thought I would bring this thread into your talks with geoff, as a point of reference.

Hope it helps!

I always find that it is good to see someone in their environment, practices and disciplines to get an idea for their picture of things discussed.

also

http://www.stereophile.com/content/may-geoffs-web-pages

http://www.stereophile.com/content/being-fair

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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The new low mass champion

Thanks for bringing that thread up as I have a new "low mass" champion in the house now. A portable Sony AMFM Radio with vintage lightweight headphones, the entire system coming in at 6 ounces. How about them apples? ;-)

Geez, gotta be some kind of record...
Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

michael green
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freedom of speech & being responsable

Sad that a hobby has to be put in the middle of lies, hatred, trolling and defense of itself.

geoff said

"The fact is I actually do not promote my portable systems. I really have no interest in others using them. I'm serious. I've never suggested anyone copy what I do. This makes it all the more laughable that Mr. Green would get his knickers in a twist so often over the portables. My guess is it's because they are my portables. The reason I began the discussion about the portable cassette player was to use it as an example of how unmusical CDs are as a medium. And how much more dynamic range tapes have vice CDs, which actually was the impetus for my thread, "You want to talk about dynamics." So it turns out the cassette player and the portable CD player are excellent examples of how far you can go with Mr. Greed's own concept - the low mass system! Hel-looo! Yet, at the same time Mr. Greed still thinks transformers are bad for the sound because they're heavy. Lol. The tiny portables are what happens when you take the whole low mass concept to the limit, no? Anyone who doesn't see the irony of that please raise your hand. A further irony perhaps, when Ron says I have a unique voice or some such peculiar thing is that not only are my ideas not unique or peculiar, I am the goddamn establishment!"

mg

First a look at geoff kait "http://www.bing.com/search?q=geoff+kait&pc=Z161&form=ZGAIDF&install_date=20111120&iesrc=IE-SearchBox"

Second I as a designer in this business have a problem with direct lies to the public. Quoting geoff ""The fact is I actually do not promote my portable systems. I really have no interest in others using them. I'm serious. I've never suggested anyone copy what I do."

but on his website and audiogon we see geoff doing just that

on the front page of his site http://machinadynamica.com/

"New Product!! We're going back. Back to the future! Machina Dynamica's Hot Rodded Portable Cassette Player. Super dynamic, sweet and warm. Low, powerful bass. Tape is a natural medium, it breathes. $159 with lightweight earphones."

then geoff says

"This makes it all the more laughable that Mr. Green would get his knickers in a twist so often over the portables. My guess is it's because they are my portables."

mg

Not sure my knickers are up, but I do question the integrity of this forum and geoff himself when he directly lies to the public.

As far as his other comments, no biggie. I haven't a problem with what geoff likes or doesn't like. What many in this industry (including myself) have a problem with is the unethical behavior. Saying "The fact is I actually do not promote my portable systems. I really have no interest in others using them. I'm serious", and then pointing to an actual promotion (website and sales site) is called false advertising, and is illegal under the US fraud laws.

So if me trying to protect other listeners is me getting my knickers up, okie dokie, but I see fraud as fraud, and so have many others in this hobby and industry.

Ron, you want to call this freedom of speech, I would recommend looking up some of the laws we have in this country. Marketing a product and at the same time saying you aren't is a federal crime. Now geoff can blow smoke up you butt as much as he wants, but if the feds decided to investigate I would think geoff might be needing to explain himself.

not knickers rising just common sense

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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Please tell me he didn't say that

I didn't say I wasn't selling the portables, I just don't promote them here. The difference between you and me is I don't feel the need to link to my website every time I turn around. You know, like a used car salesman on crack.

One of these days if you work real hard you'll dig up some real dirt instead of all this fake dirt you keep coming up with.

Can I make a suggestion and lay off the coffee for a few days? You're all wound up. Lol

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

rrstesiak
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Confused

Gentlemen:

Not sure why my name is being brought up, but this thread looks like a long disagreement that I really would just rather stay out of.

Respectfully,

Ron

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as I recommended before

Hi Ron

The only one who can remove you from these topics is you yourself. You can't come up and claim "freedom of speech", then turn around and call yourself "Switzerland".

My friend if you can't see that you are being baited, I recommend taking a closer look.

"In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

Ron, your trying to play peace maker with an internet troll being one of the parties involved. Your again making this look like something between myself and geoff when in reality it is between geoff and many audiophiles going back some 15 years on audio forums, ripoff reports and other forums. I was no where around when geoff started those wars, so I'll ask you again, please don't make this between he and I. I simply agree with those other audiophiles and reports and think the bar of class should be raised on this forum. The only thing I ask of you, is to let me support my fellow listeners, as this is what I am doing. Making it a michael-geoff thing is far from what is going on here, and you have been told this before.

I'm not mad at you Ron, just suggesting you become more informed before asserting assumptions. Fact is, your writing as if I am in a fight, and missing my whole point of defending the integrity of this hobby, industry and members.

Sorry, but I can't fix what someone else has broken. If you don't want to be involved, don't post is probably the only way out I would think.

For the recorded, the only disagreement I have with Geoff Kait is, I don't appreciate being "trolled" or watching it being done to other listeners. I have no problem with any of his audio beliefs, that's not how I work. Belief comes from experience and only geoff knows how far he has gone in this hobby. I can make suggestions based on our findings and report them, but me wanting geoff to agree or disagree is the furthest thing from my mind. As I have stated a few times, I don't see geoff as a peer of ours. Now if this upsets anyone or if they disagree they are more than welcome to their opinion. It doesn't affect us one way or another. We're going to continue what we do, and go to batt for those who love the hobby of listening.

Personally Ron I don't think you should read anymore into it than that. I would also suggest this though when you are thinking I'm part of the argument, why is the tone different on TuneLand than here? You don't see trolling on TuneLand, and what you do find are the most open minded folks in the hobby. So lets not assume we are less open minded because we have a different point of view of what freedom of speech means.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

ChrisS
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It's What Geoffy Does

Just take enough samples of Geoffy's posts on this forum and any others on the internet and you will easily see a pattern.

geoffkait
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Bull headed

Michael wrote,

"For the recorded, the only disagreement I have with Geoff Kait is, I don't appreciate being "trolled" or watching it being done to other listeners. I have no problem with any of his audio beliefs, that's not how I work. Belief comes from experience and only geoff knows how far he has gone in this hobby. I can make suggestions based on our findings and report them, but me wanting geoff to agree or disagree is the furthest thing from my mind. As I have stated a few times, I don't see geoff as a peer of ours. Now if this upsets anyone or if they disagree they are more than welcome to their opinion. It doesn't affect us one way or another. We're going to continue what we do, and go to batt for those who love the hobby of listening."

I have already got Michael to change his whole way of looking at vibration isoaltion and tuning. At the beginning of these "audio wars" a year ago Michael was all like, "vibrations should be free to flow from one point to another, without restraint....without vibration there can be no sound. Sound IS vibration!" After engaging him lo these past 12 months or whatever he has come around to view things quite differently. Or at least state things differently. While he won't admit to changing his mind in so many words, he now states emphatically that he doesn't believe in "absolute isoaltion." Well, that's a switch. Anyone not catch that? So, apparently "Internet trolling" does work in changing people's minds, even when those minds are bull headed.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
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Delusional

One only has to read what goes on at the Tuneland site and compare to what he says here to understand how Geoffy thinks...

geoffkait
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Blind leading blind
ChrisS wrote:

One only has to read what goes on at the Tuneland site and compare to what he says here to understand how Geoffy thinks...

Who cares what goes on over at TunnelLand? Judging by what their fearless leader says here and what he posts here regrading their listening tests, nothing much. TunnelLand might as well be in Guayana from what I can tell.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
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Not Talking To You, Geoffy!

Talking about you.

About how you think.

michael green
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scary lol

Hi Readers

I have to say, what geoff kait said was almost creepy! Tuning is and always has been very simple and I nor anyone can change the proper meaning or method. Tuning as long as it has been around for thousands of years is about "opening up and tuning in". The definition hasn't changed and neither have the practices. Fact is "tuning" is the foundation of not only music, but physics itself.

I hope it was for trolling sake on geoff's part, that he displays such a lack in general knowledge about how music, on any level, works. Why would I or anyone leave music half baked? Our whole method is about the adjustments LOL.

Some here wonder why I treat geoff's posts as being nothing more than trolling. They make little loop holes in their posts to let him slide, but honestly folks, if someone in this hobby doesn't even understand the basics why are they here? Being nice is cool but having to sift through 15 or so years of trolling to find that the troll doesn't even understand a simple principal like "tuning" approaches the absurd.

Geoff, with every ounce of trolling the old man can dig up, has been saying "Who cares what goes on over at TunnelLand?". Well saying that the oldest, most open minded, method of audio and music for accuracy is incorrect after thousands of years in use and true today as it was then, speaks volumes. It tells us that geoff has little more to offer than repeating techniques others have done long ago with an attempt to gain recognition, not having the ability to be an original thinker. An original thinker doesn't need trolling to make themselves known. Second, geoff has shown for 15 years and admits himself that he hasn't the ability to raise his own personal bar above trolling audio forums. All one has to do is look up the meaning of internet trolling and read geoff's posting on these many forums over the years and the way he responds and is responded to.

The question is, why does this forum allow trolls to take it down to a gutter level when it should be a shining star?

I want to thank the commitment of ChrisS and others who believe the hobby should be held to higher standards. I also want to encourage those who let it slide, to think about their responsability as a member of the Stereophile forum. Stereophile will only rise to the occasion when we say, enough is enough. Defending internet trolling, is as bad as commiting trolling. It doesn't take quality of character to let it slide, but it does to stand against trolling on public forums.

This has nothing to do with people giving recommendations (good or not so good), and everything to do with honor and respect for this and other audio forums. It's the difference between the one or two vs the potential of this hobby. As ChrisS has demonstrated and I agree, trolls should not be tolerated.

We always must ask ourselves, are we part of the problem or solution?

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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The organ grinder and his Howler Monkey

Michael wrote,

"We always must ask ourselves, are we part of the problem or solution?"

Well, that's an easy one. You and your howler monkey ChrisS are part of the problem. While failing to address the topic of this thread and having been reduced to attacking your humble scribe at every opportunity you have been marginalized on this forum. And your howler monkey ChrisS has never said anything smarter than a fifth grader. I mean once we got over your long winded pseudo physics and learned all about how you can't get results from audiophile devices except your own bizarre contraptions there really wasn't much left to talk about, was there? Mean, except to turn Stereophile Forum into your own personal billboard. As far as I'm concerned you can take your demented howler monkey and head back through the time portal to TunnelLand. TunnelLand - where the roads all end at the edge of town.

Well, looking on the bright side I suspect you'll go away knowing that you've been isolating vibrations all these years instead of whatever bizarre explanation you decided on lo these past thirty years. You don't believe in absolute isolation. Hahahahahah!

 photo photo_55_zpsenk69e9g.jpg

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
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Geoffy might know grinders and monkeys but he don't know science

Geoffy writes:

"Take a cable with a black jacket and listen to it so younger [sic] an idea what it sounds like. Then wrap the outside of the black jacket say 1/4 the length with WHITE electrical tape. Listen to the cable again. You should be able to hear the sound is better with the white tape around the jacket."

Go back to http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_scientific_m... and read what school kids already know.

Are you smarter than a 5th Grader, Geoffy?

Nope.

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Geoffy at his best!

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7266.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7290.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7291.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7275.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7012.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7014.html

Of course, there's more...

michael green
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cute picture lol

geoff says

"you have been marginalized on this forum"

mg

Nope, just using my time wisely as this forum's members continue to email us on TuneLand for system advice. Also why spend time talking about the dynamics of "marginalized" earphones when the most of us listen to real headphones and in-room audio systems?

Your pictures do make this forum colorful though, disappointing that after a while their content disappears. Free picture host have a tendency of doing this. Also I liked the touch on the one thread where you were mad asserting that you were the GD establishment. I doubt that God was impressed one, two you probably are at least on the charter for internet trollers of whatever county you live in. I would assume you meet on tuesdays following the ladies quilting club at your apartment complex. I take my quilting classes on-line but find it troubling that you guys have all the good stencils.

play some music, you'll feel better

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

May Belt
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Freudian slip.

>>> "I take my guilting classes on-line" <<<

Was that a Freudian slip, Michael ?? LOL.

Regards,
May Belt,
PWB Electronics.

geoffkait
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Hey, thanks!
ChrisS wrote:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7266.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7290.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7291.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7275.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7012.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/7014.html

Of course, there's more...

Hey, thanks for the free advertising, little Buddy. I owe you one.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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That's weird
michael green wrote:

geoff says

"you have been marginalized on this forum"

mg

Nope, just using my time wisely as this forum's members continue to email us on TuneLand for system advice. Also why spend time talking about the dynamics of "marginalized" earphones when the most of us listen to real headphones and in-room audio systems?

Your pictures do make this forum colorful though, disappointing that after a while their content disappears. Free picture host have a tendency of doing this. Also I liked the touch on the one thread where you were mad asserting that you were the GD establishment. I doubt that God was impressed one, two you probably are at least on the charter for internet trollers of whatever county you live in. I would assume you meet on tuesdays following the ladies quilting club at your apartment complex. I take my quilting classes on-line but find it troubling that you guys have all the good stencils.

play some music, you'll feel better

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

That's weird, I would have thought you spent your spare time in hair braiding class.

Oh, and God was impressed. I talked with him just the other day.

You might not know what country I live in but I know what state you live in. The state of confusion.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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todays answer to geoff's trolling me

go to google search and type in Geoff Kait, nuf said

I'd rather B listening.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

ChrisS
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What Geoffy does...

As long as people can see what you are all about.

geoffkait
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The natives are restless

Go on warpath. Take 'em scalp.

Ouch. Very ouch!

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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music not war

Music makes everything better. Listening to Carla Werner, come join us.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t4p660-michael-s-system

peace

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

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Something to Meditate On

All:

I was going to write a long response, but I thought better of it and instead will just leave everyone with scripture to meditate on:

Matthew 7:1-3
7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

I find scripture interesting...for the parties to whom this applies will feel it as if hot coals were upon their foreheads; while those who are not guilty of judging will merely find it wise.

Regards,

Ronald R. Stesiak, PhD

ps. My apologies to Geoff for going off topic on his thread..but I felt this needed said and was appropriate here. It is also not in fact directed at any one member.

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Not to judge, but lol...

...did you have to quote it in King James version? JK of course.

I love the sermon on the mount, who doesn't, but for myself it makes more sense within the context of reading the whole sermon. There's a ton of meat there. The Lord was giving both sides of the "judging" fence, as well as both sides of our choices in life. The sermon was actually telling us to "be" judges, but to do it with one goal in mind. Christ was telling us to put "perfection" above all else, and in doing that we will gravitate toward the perfect kingdom. At the same time he get's tough about mingling with the dishonest.

It's a cool piece of writing because it's a two way street.

like for example check this out

"7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

Any way, the sermon as a whole has these two very powerful sides. On one hand we can take it as take no action, but on the other side, take that action but keep yourself in check and as you judge seek that balance, cause some of the time you will be doing the judging through what is right, and other times by your own ego and not the truth.

For myself it comes back to not saying I am in tune, but push for "being" in tune judging myself and also right and wrong.

I'm not sure the teachings "in context" can ever be "off topic", and the interpretations are of the heart. Isn't that cool. It's not so much about what we do, but why we do. We don't have to be right all the time, just be seeking what is right and receive peace love & joy.

now lets go turn on some music and be happy :)

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

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Please tell me he didn't say that

Mingling with the dishonest? You are the Elmer Gantry of audio. Hel-loo! You will say anything. In case I have to spell it out for you have no integrity or intellectual honesty.

 photo photo_21_zpsgwb7ny1z.jpg

Now I feel better.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Ooops, system hiccup

Nt

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Walkman and cheap phones

You do realize that a lot of readers here have lived through the Walkman era, yes? It was crap then and it's crappier now. If that's really your system, what are you doing here? What does your company do? Sell modified Walkmen? I don't understand why this forum is a battle between a guy who listens to cassettes and another guy who hangs out with people who go to each other's homes with a wrench and tune the systems to what sound familiar to them. This all sounds like make believe. I can't equate any of it with anything I've ever read or learned about audio, nor can I find anything about it anywhere but on this forum.

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Tuning

Hi melissassippi

on MGA

Here's our forum http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/ if you wish to look into the history of tuning. We're a completely different audio camp than Geoff & May, but as you can see share many threads, why I'm not sure. Also if you would like a list of reviews and references, we'd be happy to supply this. You might also be interested to learn about our High End Stores. Harold Cooper (MGA/RoomTune/Sound Consultant) carries a variety of high end audio. The new web is coming this year but you can take a peek at the non-updated site http://soundconsultant.com/ .

on Geoff & May

We don't know May & Geoff past our reading them on here starting two years ago. They're not associates of ours, but it seems if one wishes to bring up topics on this forum you have to be willing to wade through the water, sometimes mudd.

I still haven't decided if this has been a good or bad experience, but I think it helps to see some of the different sides to the hobby.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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Wrenches?
michael green wrote:

Hi melissassippi

on MGA

Here's our forum http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/ if you wish to look into the history of tuning. We're a completely different audio camp than Geoff & May, but as you can see share many threads, why I'm not sure. Also if you would like a list of reviews and references, we'd be happy to supply this. You might also be interested to learn about our High End Stores. Harold Cooper (MGA/RoomTune/Sound Consultant) carries a variety of high end audio. The new web is coming this year but you can take a peek at the non-updated site http://soundconsultant.com/ .

on Geoff & May

We don't know May & Geoff past our reading them on here starting two years ago. They're not associates of ours, but it seems if one wishes to bring up topics on this forum you have to be willing to wade through the water, sometimes mudd.

I still haven't decided if this has been a good or bad experience, but I think it helps to see some of the different sides to the hobby.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hey, Michael, do you guys really take wrenches to each other's houses so you can tune the systems? That is SO cool. Do you ever take screwdrivers to each other's houses?

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Questions. You have questions.
melissassippi wrote:

You do realize that a lot of readers here have lived through the Walkman era, yes? It was crap then and it's crappier now. If that's really your system, what are you doing here? What does your company do? Sell modified Walkmen? I don't understand why this forum is a battle between a guy who listens to cassettes and another guy who hangs out with people who go to each other's homes with a wrench and tune the systems to what sound familiar to them. This all sounds like make believe. I can't equate any of it with anything I've ever read or learned about audio, nor can I find anything about it anywhere but on this forum.

It sounds like you have no real direct experience with Walkmen. Save the drama for your mama. The plain fact is the Sony Walkmen in almost all of their various guises were one of the most important inventions of the twentieth century. They are reliable and sound very good right out of the box. There are some obvious difference among models of Walkman but the differences are relatively minor. Then there are the tweaks. So, no one has heard a tweaked Walkman on any of the audio forums anyway. So what are you going to do? Lol

Have a nice day.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Walkmans & Wheelbarrows

Geoff seems to miss the point often when it comes to the hobby of high end audio. In comparison where the Reel 2 Reel and some of the cassette decks are still considered part of the hobby as niche branches, portable cassette players with earphones were and are the bottom of the audio food chain.

It's kinda like comparing a wheelbarrow to a dozer or frontloader. When it comes to storing and replaying music the portable cassette tape player is able to do part of the job but compared to a stereo systems potential not much ground is being moved. Does this mean people should not use them? Of course not, for example, if you are having a hard time making your in-room stereo sound good, an H-phone or portable are options with CD's or tape. And the majority of music listeners are in this class. I don't think we should down play where something is in the food chain of music. There's a big difference between in-room systems and headphones, as well a big difference between headphones and portables. Finding what works for each person is what's important, but we shouldn't mix this in with the potential of systems.

Where geoff jumps off the cliff can be discribed with two words "portable cassette". A cassette tape and player is a variable source like the turntable and vinyl is. High end audio audiophiles using cassettes make the proper adjustments to get the most out of the recording. The portable cassette player offers no head adjustments. Cassettes are not an autoplay source. In most cases there needs to be a head or EQ adjustment made with the cassette tapes to bring the most info out of the recording. In comparison, it's a lot like playing several types of vinyl with only one TT setting. Or worse picking up a turntable where there is no adjustment at all. The portable cassette world tried to market EQ's and adjustable machines but there wasn't enough flexibility as compared to their home deck counterparts. The portable cassette player was made for one reason, portability. It wasn't designed to be the ultimate tape playing machine. Basically a one size fits all best guess.

Does the portable cassette player talk belong on this forum, you be the judge, but it's not a headphone and it's not an in-room system. It's a portable cassette tape player and should be thought of as such, not more not less.

It's cool that geoff has found this to be his source for his every day driver, but that's pretty much what it is.

michael green
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http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

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Failure to communicate

I can certainly understand your frustration and resentment that I have outdone you at your own game, so called Low Mass game. Coming in a less than 10 ounces for the entire system my portable CD and cassette players demonstrate that getting rid of the transformer altogether is very good for the sound. And that getting rid of house AC is very good for the sound. That getting rid of all power cords is very good for the sound. That getting rid of all that internal wiring is good for the sound. That getting rid of all fuses is good for the sound. That getting rid of all interconnects and digital cables is very good for the sound. And getting rid of all those big honking capacitors is very good for the sound. And totally eliminating room effects by you know eliminating the room is you guessed it - very good for the sound. You are most likely just in denial as usual. Feel better soon.

Ta, ta,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
We do artificial atoms right.

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Low Mass

I'm all for low mass!! The "frustration and resentment" thing you do is pretty trollish, but this is your style, so whatever.

The simple movement I'm totally on board with. What I'm less on board with is your belief in "fixed" one size fits all audio. It borders on ignorance: lack of knowledge or information, to come to the Stereophile forum (a high end journal) and tell us to use products that are based on one setting when the industry and hobby knows different. If you were engaged with specialty forums on topics like TuneLand or in the case of tape http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=23492 and spoke from knowledge and experience it would make more sense, but throwing things out there in thin air and having only internet trolling as a means of debate and not even proof puts your footing and comments on shaky ground at best.

The question is, do you expect others to take you as serious when all they have to do is look up a topic on-line and find practicing people talking about the subject with more expertise? You try to make your threads and those of others into internet troll events when it would be just as easy to actually study any given topic in audio and share. It's so much easier talking to people who either want to learn or have studied up on a topic through both sides or at least one side of science, Theory & Practical Application. Assuming though that there is you and whoever you wish to troll at that momment as the audience comes off as you having very little knowledge, no matter if there are sympathizers for you or not, and truly does paint you in time as nothing more than a troll sowing discord.

Speaking for myself, I have yet to have a conversation with you that has gone past you flaming someone. You fire off your opinion, someone responds, and without any explainations scientifically based you start audio wars.

This my friend causes nothing but a lack of credibility.

In other words you could be talking about the plus of the low mass and the reduction of parts on their merits, and not mix them into your lack of tape experience. See what I mean? Who in the tape world is going to take you serious when you have a non-adjustable tape player? As much as you might have to say about fewer parts with smaller size and lower mass, or whatever point you wish to make, it would be more accepted within the context of audio correctness. Anyone who uses tape knows the one setting nature of a portable does not make for purist tape listening.

Saying the person you wish to troll is in denial, without you ever showing any expertise, doesn't prove your point, but only confirms that they have more knowledge on the topic than yourself when it comes to topics like these.

michael green
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http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

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Strictly argumentative

What we have here is failure to communicate. You are enamored with your own beliefs to the point where you will not listen. For that that reason I'm out.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Exhibit A

This is page 1 of Rolling Stones albums listed on the Official Dynamic Range Data Base. Feeble free to navigate all the pages of the Stones albums or type in another artists to see his results. But the point of this page is to show the extreme differences in dynamic range between just the vinyl from 1979 and the recent CD releases of Sticky Fingers in 2015. The data base shows dynamic range in relative number and colors, the color red representing unacceptably low dynamic ranges. The lowest, average and highest dynamic range values for each listing are shown. If you don't know what dynamic range is just ask.

Stand by for the next installment, of this discussion, gentle readers, in which we find out why cassettes are not infected with this systematic overly aggressive dynamic range compression and why they sound very dynamic.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Rolling+Stones&album=

Cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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in context please

I don't think anyone minds the discussion of sources geoff, as well the experienced listener has already explored these issues and continues too, and this is all good and very welcomed. The issue is that you are making these statements based on what you are reading and referencing to, but you yourself started this thread based on you telling the audiophile community that you have found this great dynamic format called the Sony Portable Cassette Walkman, which out performed your high end audio headphone setup and your previous in-room audio systems.

You come here with a bold statement, then begin to flame anyone who questions you or ask you for explainations. Later you turn around and say the portable cassette player was not really serious. Now here you come again starting a completely out of context spin in your OP thread, that has nothing to do with using portable cassette players from the 80's.

It's good and appreciated I'm sure for someone reading the other thread talking about the loudness wars, but how do you tie this in with the sony sport walkman cassette player from the 80's replacing your former audio systems?

michael green
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OK, fair enough. Here's the context.

When I first posted on the Walkman cassette player my point was to indicate the superior dynamics of the cassette player, as humble as it might be regarded, compared to CD players in general. It is a subjective opinion based on, uh, listening. In addition the detail and tone of the Walkman cassette player is superior to CD. Now, you can disagree with my findings until you're blue in the face and it won't change my opinion. Capish? If anyone wishes to examine the Official Dynamic Range Data Base he will observe one reason why the humble cassette sounds more dynamic than CDs - the dynamic range of many CDs I has been overly compressed. When I say overly compressed I mean that the dynamic rmGe has been reduced by 3 to 6 dB or more! Hel-loo! Comparing for example the famous RCA lLiving Stereo Heifetz Brahms Violin Concerto on CD with the same recording on cassette reveals the casstte is FAR MORE MUSICAL IN TERMS OF DYNAMICS, RESOLUTION AND TONE. The violin on cassette sounds sweet, warm and full bodied. On CD it sounds think wiry, limp, unappealable, unmusical, amateurish.

To summarize, not only is the humble and forgotten audio cassette on a firm footing sonically with CD but it is quite superior - even on inexpensive portable cassette players - in a number of important and highly desirable audiophile ways. Cassettes, there really is no substitute.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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OP

Here's geoff's OP.

"New project, the Sony Walkman, I obtained a S2 Sport Walkman in like new condition for $49 on eBay and accumulated about ten cassettes in great condition, some of them, like Led Zeppelin and Led Zeppelin II, going back to the late sixties. I think the newest one is thirty years old and I'm still in shock how robust these little hummers are against the ravages of time. Cassettes like Fine Young Cannibals and the Stones' Undercover are much more dynamic than you would be led to believe if you had only listened to the CD. I would guess the dynamic range, subjectively, is two to four times what I hear out of most digital. That would be 3 to 6 dB greater for you technical weenies out there. I should add, if you don't mind my saying so too much, the cassette format seems considerably more musical than CD, you know, right out of the box."

It is what it is. I don't see anyone having a problem with your opinion and/or system change.

michael green
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Good, Grief, Charlie Brown!

Uh, so what's your point? I've already explained it all at least three times. If you're pretending to be a slow learner you're doing an excellent job.

Geoff Kait
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point?

Actually geoff, you haven't explained yourself, and this is why you have created the reputation you have in this industry, as someone who has never really established themself beyond the doubt.

michael green
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My fingers are getting sore
michael green wrote:

Actually geoff, you haven't explained yourself, and this is why you have created the reputation you have in this industry, as someone who has never really established themself beyond the doubt.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Sorry if your memory fails you. Can I make a suggestion? Keep a log of what is said on these threads. That way I won't have to repeat myself. All that typing makes my fingers sore.

Besides I'm not in your industry, pro audio. Pro audio dudes have been upset with me like forever. Lol

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

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might be cute....

for someone playing tag on the playground geoff, but you have made your own "log" in the public eye. We see people asking you the same questions since 1998. Personally I have never heard your name in any pro circles or home audio up until you pointed to yourself on here and other forums and rip off report sites.

your refer to your resume

"About the Author: Education: Aerospace Engineering (theoretical fluid dynamics, propulsion, statistical thermodynamics, nuclear physics, indeterminate structures). Undergrad thesis: Design of propulsion system for interplanetary travel utilizing momentum transfer mechanisms in highly magnetic metal crystal bombarded by high-energy ions. Work experience: NASA satellite operations & radar data analysis; aerodynamics of high-performance aircraft; reentry vehicle dynamics; radio and satellite communications; spread spectrum communications. He incorporated Machina Dynamica in 1998." Which you wrote in the third person.

If there is more to this, as you have said "I'm an open book", could you please fill in the gaps for us?

It is important for us to know why and how you went from your thesis in the 70's (could you give the school and date), to the portable cassette player a little less then a year ago. My particular interest is in your lab work, facilities and test & listening equipment.

I appreciate that you have cleared up the issue that you are not the inventor of the intelligent chip & box, are either of those still in production? You've stated that you were their "chief" promoter, so if you could share their history a bit that would be helpful.

A link is fine, like the one I refered to as your resume, if you don't wish to repeat yourself.

thanks

michael green
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http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

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You wish you were a peer

Resumes are often written in the third person. If you had ever actually written a resume you would know that. Hell, you can't even spell, so give me a break with all the whining and demands for information. I suggest you let your fingers do the walking and check out RehabLocator in your town.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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