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CECE
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Wire as wire
judicata
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Re: Wire as wire

Do you have any other acts, aside from the following?

(1) Wire is wire (as I've mentioned, I mostly agree with you, but c'mon)
(2) Vinyl is inferior to anything digital
(3) Solid state, FTW

What'd I miss?

bifcake
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Re: Wire as wire

You missed:

Big drivers in speakers required to move air

Multiple drivers in speakers required for full frequency range

The more power, the more realistic sound reproduction.

So, all in all, we have about 6 items that DUP rants about. I think that's a pretty good variety.

CECE
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Re: Wire as wire

Ever since my accident, I do have limited brain function, it can only remember a few of my favorite things. AC outlets have no sound.....is one of em...maybe my limited brain function might even be better than others with full capacity? and TEH is a wurd, just not used by anyone else!!!

mikeymad
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Re: Wire as wire

Is this thread really appropriate? It seems to me just an ad for another (non-stereophile) website that is selling cable. There has been no questions asked, and no thread being answered by this thread.

I think that it should just be pulled (or closed). I don't think that the purpose of this forum is to give free ads to any company you want.

Cheers,

CECE
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Re: Wire as wire

Not meant as telling where to buy wire, just showing that how CHEAP wire is on planet REALITY, for some 12 ga or 14 ga, without the MAGIC wrapper.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:
Is this thread really appropriate? It seems to me just an ad for another (non-stereophile) website that is selling cable. There has been no questions asked, and no thread being answered by this thread.

I think that it should just be pulled (or closed). I don't think that the purpose of this forum is to give free ads to any company you want.

Cheers,

DUP has a right to post in this Rant forum. DUP likes wires. He sees wire for what it is. Wire. I categorically denounce any attempt to make DUP shut up about wires and if elected president I pledge to devote an entire forum to the topic of wire and appoint DUP as moderator.

ethanwiner
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:
So, all in all, we have about 6 items that DUP rants about. I think that's a pretty good variety.


Now if I could just get DUP to jump on the acoustic treatment bandwagon, my life will be complete.

--Ethan

JIMV
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Re: Wire as wire

I agree that wire is vastly overpriced, as in bears no resemblance in any way with the prices charged. That said, wire does have a voice and will change the sound of a system. Good wire perhaps more than basic wire.

For me, the only issue is 'are the changes found in the system worth the price paid for them?'

For me that upper end of price to improvement is around $200 a set. I won't pay more and would prefer about half. That means the price of wire (interconnects, speaker and power) is about $410 out of a total system price, including the wire, of about $5K, or maybe 8%.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Wire as wire

Shoot, I'm still working on a spool I got from Radio Shack about 18 years ago. I can't remember how much it cost. But I know it was a lot. I do remember getting the thickest wire. One side has a red stripe going down it. The other no stripe. Does anyone here have any idea what I'm talking about?

But we could probably use the old Radio Shack computer machine to make decisions on what type of wire we should use. "Help me Mr Wizard!"

Adjusted for inflation it is on sale for $68.25.

cyclebrain
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Re: Wire as wire

Oh yeah. You got some of that hard to get 18 year old Radio Shack Red Stripe wire? Rare and hard to find. Has a tube like sound with just a bit of analog. You lucky dog.
If you want to improve on its already legendary sound just throw it in the freezer for a while.

JIMV
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Re: Wire as wire

I have posted on other threads the changes I think I have heard from changing first a fuse for one of the new fangled HI-FI ones (subtle but there) and a power cable I replaced for my amp. I was so impressed by that PS Audio product but so constrained by my wallet, I bought their entry level one for my CD player. I got it today.

I like jazz. I have a CD I am impressed with both for the quality of the recording and for its engineering. Dave Koz "At the Movies". The second track is a version of Moon River on Sax. I really thought this was a clear recording on my gear, as it was, and I was getting about all that was possible without a major gear change. I was listening tonight and found that, behind the well known sax track on that recording, someone is quietly brushing that cymbal thingy on a drum set. Never heard before. When I switched back to the stock power cord for the CD player, the sound was simply mush in the background mix, utterly un-noticable and impossible to identify as to instrument.

I don't care what the nay sayers say about wires, cables and power cords...I CAN hear a difference.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Wire as wire

Are you being facetious?

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Wire as wire

Yeah, but are you connecting the positive and negative leads correctly with your stock ones. I know the new ones are probably color coded but the stock ones might be causing you to connect them wrong. Better check and get back with us and let us know if the stock wires give out the cymbol thingy with the wiring reversed. Also, if you like Jazz the cymbol thingy and brushing sound is a cymbol and percussion mallet popularized with a matched grip by Ringo Starr.

cyclebrain
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:
Are you being facetious?

Oh Yeah.
Sorry, your wire is not in demand.
Doesn't mean that it is or isn't good.

JIMV
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Re: Wire as wire

Clever but still does not explain why, in a simple before and after test, one can hear sonic differences when one changes power cords, as is most assuredly true in my case.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Wire as wire

I think my wire is good.

tomjtx
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:
Clever but still does not explain why, in a simple before and after test, one can hear sonic differences when one changes power cords, as is most assuredly true in my case.

If you didn't do a blind comparison you can't rule out placebo.

Many a golden ear has had his hubris deflated when confronted with the results of his blind test :-)

JIMV
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Re: Wire as wire

Perhaps true, but, I recall decades ago when blind tests were in vogue, folk were using them to 'prove' mass market 250 watt receivers sounded as good as multi thousand dollar separates.

Not wanting to sound too smug, but is there anyone who believes the Best Buy stereo system sounds like the Jadis system with Wilson speakers, much less sounds 'as good'?

Today I see folk are limiting those arguments to tweaks, as the absurdity of the original claims is apparent to the half deaf.

I did not say all changes in a system because of accessories like wire or fuses or system vibration reducers or magic colored ink pens to mark CD's are true or always better. What I said was that those tweaks in my system that do result in a change result in a change for the better, in my system and that I can hear it.

I have played with PS Audio power cords of late, not the expensive ones but the entry level with the most costing $100 (sale price). I had not made any change to my system for 6 months before I did this and I tend to listen to the same stuff over and over.

Today I put on a CD (Narada 'Obsession'), a disk I have heard a hundred times and always liked. Today I hear (and this is where my deep knowledge of musical instruments pays off) the shimmery tinkle of one of those thingies Flamenco dancers wear on and play with their fingers. This may well have always been there, but why would I notice it now for the first time? I was not looking for a change in the thing, just reading Lee Childs latest Reacher novel and was interupted by the new sound.

It really does not matter what folk think about the sound, I hear it and like it and consider it proof that something changed in my system, something I can identify and describe.

Feel free to do the Radio Shack cable thing but you might be missing out on some magic in your music.

I'll start saving for one of their Power Stations.

CECE
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Re: Wire as wire

That is a simple test, easier than looking for termites in an old house. Take off the magic power cord, put back the original power cord, play the disC again, do you still hear the "thingies"? I think those are Casttinets (misspelled)

JIMV
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Re: Wire as wire

First thing I did. The shimmery sound was there, but buried in the background mix and did not stand out. The shimmer of the instruments was missing...no nice long decay.

I misdecribed the source instrument as well. It is not the castenattes (sp) but some sort of a triangle, quick attack and slow decay of the sound, more high pitched than a castinette. It is a shimmery sort of sound common in oriental music but I have no idea what the thing that produces it is called. I do not want to imply that I was confusing the two instruments or that they were sounding alike, I just was at a loss in identifying the thing.

Tweaks are really, for me, one of the things that makes this hobby so much fun. Does an effect claimed by folk of reviewers show itself in my system and is the change, if it does appear, worth the cost?

So far, vibration reducing devices beyond the spikes on my salamander rack have had no effect at all. I cannot hear any difference with vibropods under my CD player or phono, electrical wall warts to clean up the power have no audible effect in the quantity I have, but, a fuse change did change the sound a bit, changing speaker cables from Tara Labs to Cardis changed from a darker sound to a more lively one, changing my old Transparent interconnects to Kimber PBJ had a minor effect BUT, putting those old transparent cables into my TV system after the phono amp had a noticable effect. Changing to PS audio power cords in my amp and CD has had more effect than anything else so far.

I can hear stuff that I could not before, unexpected stuff on old well known tracks.

I think in my system the changes are best described, in most cases, as separating out background sounds..ie; on my less than megabuck system, the folk who are miked are clear and well defined in the sound image. Background musicians are clear as to place but the sound levels and instrument timbers sort of blur in space and in clarity. They sort of blend together. I know more or less where they are on the stage, but only within a wide area. With the power tweaks I have made, those folk are much better defined in space and, more importantly, the instruments are more clear and sound more like individal instruments than simply background. In addition, the upper register is far more clear and, within the limits of my speakers, the lows are stronger.

JIMV
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Re: Wire as wire

Ok, now I am going to do something almost never done on a rants thread, admit error...

Yesterday I was sure the sound I was hearing was a castinete. Last night I went to a very good Spanish restaurant where they have a very mediocre sound system and listened to a LOT of flamenco music. The castinetes were darker, less metalic in sound so I was sure I was wrong and the thing I was hearing MUST be some other unidentified instrument. Today I posted as much but, after a new listen, I am sure they are castinetes...metalic, shimmery quick attack and a gradual decay to the sound. Last nights sounded dampered and ceramic in comparison.

I was wrong.

mikeymad
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:
DUP has a right to post in this Rant forum. DUP likes wires. He sees wire for what it is. Wire. I categorically denounce any attempt to make DUP shut up about wires and if elected president I pledge to devote an entire forum to the topic of wire and appoint DUP as moderator.

DUP can post as much as he wants. I only had a problem with the OP, look at the OP (Original Post). It is just an ad for a cable company. There is no question posed, no question answered. Not even a simple "Here is a site with some cheap cable that I really liked and have used before". But because it is DUP we all know what it means, so we let it go and start a 5 page discussion about it. As he sits backs and watches the show....

I like Todd the Vinyl Junkie www.ttvj.com. So I guess I will start up a thread with nothing more than a link to his site... that should be perfectly Okay (and I should have your full support). I don't need to say or contribute anything else, just a link.... And hey if I get a little kickback from every time someone clicks on the link. So be it.

oops have I been DUPed? I hate when that happens...

CECE
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Re: Wire as wire

You missed the point, look how cheap wire is generic speaker wire, 12 ga. And it has specs, insulation types so you know in what enviroment it good for, you know those mundane, boring things that matter with WIRE. You really don't need to read about strand jumping, or how PVC stops every other electron, or how AC line outlets vibrate and affect the sound of a CD player 6 feet away. Wire, it has no sound, how can it? Get a full roll, magic just fills up the space.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:

Quote:
DUP has a right to post in this Rant forum. DUP likes wires. He sees wire for what it is. Wire. I categorically denounce any attempt to make DUP shut up about wires and if elected president I pledge to devote an entire forum to the topic of wire and appoint DUP as moderator.

DUP can post as much as he wants. I only had a problem with the OP, look at the OP (Original Post). It is just an ad for a cable company. There is no question posed, no question answered. Not even a simple "Here is a site with some cheap cable that I really liked and have used before". But because it is DUP we all know what it means, so we let it go and start a 5 page discussion about it. As he sits backs and watches the show....

I like Todd the Vinyl Junkie www.ttvj.com. So I guess I will start up a thread with nothing more than a link to his site... that should be perfectly Okay (and I should have your full support). I don't need to say or contribute anything else, just a link.... And hey if I get a little kickback from every time someone clicks on the link. So be it.

oops have I been DUPed? I hate when that happens...


Quote:
Oddball: Ah, Bellamy, for cryin' out loud. That's the stinking, most awful, stupid joke and you're always pullin' that stinking awful stupid joke. You don't want in this thing, you don't get in this thing. I cut you out of everything. I don't need you. Sixty feet of wire I can get almost anywhere.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:
Ok, now I am going to do something almost never done on a rants thread, admit error...

Yesterday I was sure the sound I was hearing was a castinete. Last night I went to a very good Spanish restaurant where they have a very mediocre sound system and listened to a LOT of flamenco music. The castinetes were darker, less metalic in sound so I was sure I was wrong and the thing I was hearing MUST be some other unidentified instrument. Today I posted as much but, after a new listen, I am sure they are castinetes...metalic, shimmery quick attack and a gradual decay to the sound. Last nights sounded dampered and ceramic in comparison.

I was wrong.

Thank god you went to a good Spanish restaurant. Case solved. It takes a good person to admit when they made a mistake. DUP, take a memo.

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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:
It really does not matter what folk think about the sound, I hear it and like it and consider it proof that something changed in my system, something I can identify and describe.

JIMV,
You used very similar words as I when mentioning the changes in sound. I too can describe and repeat the sound of wire vs. fuse in speakers. Wire is wire? Not necessarily.

CECE
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Re: Wire as wire

It may take a "good" person to admit a mistake, but it takes a better one,knowledgeable one to not make the mistake in the first place. I love it when I'm RIGHT! WATTS/DRIVERS/REALISM

JIMV
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:

Quote:
It really does not matter what folk think about the sound, I hear it and like it and consider it proof that something changed in my system, something I can identify and describe.

JIMV,
You used very similar words as I when mentioning the changes in sound. I too can describe and repeat the sound of wire vs. fuse in speakers. Wire is wire? Not necessarily.

I do not deny that the very changes wires make are often WAY less than the cost to produce the change might merit in normal, real folks systems, but these things do change the sound and a modest investment in wire to replace the stock stuff will have a nice audible change in the overall system.

Would I pay $1K for wire in a $5K system...nope, but I would and did spend half that.

Folk who deny change in systems as a result of wire, in my view, have poor hearing and are in the wrong hobby.

judicata
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:
Folk who deny change in systems as a result of wire, in my view, have poor hearing and are in the wrong hobby.

That statement is offensive. Or, more specifically, over-generalized, unfounded hyperbole.

Step 1 - Deny any objective form of measurement
Step 2 - Assert ones subjective measurement
Step 3 - Declare anyone else's subjective estimation that differs from ones own as erroneous.

If the measure of a train of logic was the extent to which it dispenses with the need for fact checking, this one gets high marks.

JIMV
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:

Quote:
Folk who deny change in systems as a result of wire, in my view, have poor hearing and are in the wrong hobby.

That statement is offensive. Or, more specifically, over-generalized, unfounded hyperbole.

But, perhaps, just perhaps...True.

I did say in my opinion. We are n a hobby with a lot of snake oil passing as product where the placebo effect runs wild BUT, that does not mean ALL changes are snake oil and all products frauds.

mikeymad
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Re: Wire as wire

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036278

CECE
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Re: Wire as wire

There is enough wire on that $4 roll to make it into a 12Ga with lotsa magic twists and snaggles, then cover it with the mesh wrap, call it $1000 wire, and hear the difference, you know that multiple runs of thinner wire sound better than one heavier guage or heavier multiple strands in a 12 ga. Isn't there a Shade Tree of Maple making such deteerminations on the magic stuff they offer, under the shade of a Maple Tree.....is it the same tree the Keebler Elves make cookies?

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Wire as wire

YAY!!!!!! RADIO SHACK IS DA BOMB!

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index....rentPage=family

bifcake
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:
YAY!!!!!! RADIO SHACK IS DA BOMB!

Yep!

rvance
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Re: Wire as wire

Great, AlexO. First you gave dup his much needed second wind and now you're teasing Homeland Security.

bifcake
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Re: Wire as wire

I'm just reprinting the RadioShack catalog.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Wire as wire


Quote:
I'm just reprinting the RadioShack catalog.

That's right. I couldn't wait until the catalog came out. I once built a radio out of a cigar box.

bifcake
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Re: Wire as wire

I once built a cigar box out of a radio.

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