judicata
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Upgrading the ol' 'table!
BillB
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... for somewhere under $1800 MSRP. I'd keep my Exact for now
(2) Wait for awhile (approximately 6-8 months) and get a VPI Classic. If I go with the Scout now, I could hold out on the Classic for a year or so...

Cool. I think the Classic is at least double the price of the Scout, so I wonder about the law of diminishing returns there. I'd go with the Scout, and go ahead with a killer new cartridge for it. As I understand it, the arm is more than capable of getting the best out of the best cartridges. And add a dust cover; I think the VPI's don't have that and to me that's a necessity. That will add some $ to either the Scout or the Classic.

Or, go with the Classic next year and sell me your 1 year old Scout for a fair used price

Buddha
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I will vote with the Classic.

The Scouts will be marked down as they get liquidated and this will drive down the resale value.

Also, I worry the fun upgrade path will be eliminated for the Scout.

I say, go deeply into debt now to stimulate the economy and get instant gratification with the Classic.

Mmmmmmm.

I want a Classic, too.

enframed
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VPI does make a cover for the Scout:

http://www.vpiindustries.com/products_cover.htm

I have one and quite like it. There's a hole that fits over the spindle and the clamp holds the cover on. I just place the cover on and don't even tighten it down. $75 from VPI. Sent then a check and a week later I had a cover. The Classic Cover is $300, so add that to the price of your Classic.

I prefer the look of the Scout to the Classic so I'd go with that, all other things being equal, which they probably aren't.

linden518
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I'd consider the new Well-Tempered Amadeus before thinking about the Classic at the same budget. Sorry to throw the wrench in the VPI discussion, but you did say you were open to suggestions!

Also: Nottingham. Very very musical tables...

judicata
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I'd consider the new Well-Tempered Amadeus before thinking about the Classic at the same budget. Sorry to throw the wrench in the VPI discussion, but you did say you were open to suggestions!

Also: Nottingham. Very very musical tables...

I'm definitely open to suggestions.

First, unfortunately, I cannot afford a $2500+ turntable at this point in time. Don't get me wrong, I love stimulating the economy, but I don't think a credit default would help . Of course, these TTs always cost more in the end. For the Classic, I'd definitely want the periphery ring ($600). So, a $3,000 TT (total) is probably in my future in a year's time or so (maybe a little less if I stick with my P2 for awhile).

I have zero experience with Well-Tempereds and Nottinghams. Holding off on the Classic will give me time to decide if I actually want it, and I'll have some time to explore these other suggestions (and I always trust SD's recommendations).

I'm going to listen to the Scout a bit to confirm it is a significant step up from my P2. If I think so, I think I'll get it. I'll post impressions.

As an aside, I thought I could get $400 for my P2 with my practically unused Bias cart, but I saw the exact same thing (returned item) on MusicDirect for $400... so I think I'll have to undercut that for a fair price. I have two friends that have expressed interest. (But if anyone is looking on a great deal on a good TT, see if MD still has that deal!).

KBK
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You can buy an LP12 'kit' (like VPI, upgradable) for under $1000, ready to go. A Valhalla'd LP12, with a Linn Basik arm, will usually sell for under $1k, easy. More like $800.

ncdrawl
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I had the same thoughts(down to looking at the same "upgrade") before swapping the subplatter, platter, and rewiring the tone-arm. (and many more tweaks).. the total cost was around 300 bucks or so./

I've done a whole lot of listening to tables between then and now, and determined that I would have to spend a *hell* of a lot more money to get any sound improvements over this modded table.

of course if you aren't a DIY type, it doesn't really matter.

judicata
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Thanks. I thought about that modding, but I think I'll be happier with a new setup. The platter and subplatter are easy to switch out, but those two tweaks alone would go over $300.

ncdrawl
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I thought about that modding, but I think I'll be happier with a new setup.

you may for a while.... 300 is a hell of a lot cheaper than 800.

at any rate, enjoy your purchase.

commsysman
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I have had the Music Hall MMF-7 for a couple of years now, with the Benz Ace cartridge, and it is a really excellent combo. The Turntable was around $1000, and the cartridge around $600.

I have thought about upgrading a couple of times, but when I compare I keep coming to the same conclusion: A minor improvement in sound quality will cost me $4000 to $8000!
Nothing in a lower price range impresses me at all.

What I have sounds so good that I have pretty much decided to quit fussing and stay with it, lol.

I think that the Benz Ace cartridge is a real standout at its price, plus there are 3 versions; high, medium, and low output (I have the high output version). Highly recommended.

linden518
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Just so you can hate me:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1252078124&/Voyd-Voyd

KBK
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A nice table if there ever was one.

All you ever wanted out of a Thorens TD124, and more - with less hassles.

It should disappear fast.

judicata
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Before you guys talked me into spending more money, I grabbed a Scout from my dealer today.

I took my time setting it up, and everything seems right (tracking force, azimuth, VTA, etc.), and this baby sounds fantastic. I really could tell an immediate difference. I wouldn't necessarily say it is night and day, because the P2 isn't a bad TT. I'm still using my Rega Exact, which is obviously a good mate for a Rega table, and it sounds good with the VPI, but I don't know that I'm getting all I can out of it. Sometime soon, I'll try to find a cart that might work better with the JMW.

My very first impression is that the VPI seems less "reckless." The Rega is great at conveying the beat and rhythm (it'll get your toes tappin'), but the VPI is smoother, quieter, and more refined. This also may be because I didn't have my Rega on an ideal surface -- the only place I can put my TT is on a heavy equipment rack on my wood floors. The VPI seems to like this position better.

Since I've only been listening for 40 minutes, I'll hold my further comments. For now, I'll just say that I am completely thrilled and happy with the Scout.

Thanks to everyone for being a sounding board and providing your suggestions. I think I'll go poking around for a Classic or one of the other TTs mentioned next year if I decide I'm ready for an upgrade. But enough of that for now -- I've got some records to enjoy.

linden518
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Awesome! Give us a full report. With all those upgrade possibilities on the VPI, I think you're good for more than a year.

judicata
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Awesome! Give us a full report. With all those upgrade possibilities on the VPI, I think you're good for more than a year.

The upgrade possibilities just scare me. I could easily plunk down triple the cost of the table: SDS, super platter, periphery ring (after platter), 300rpm motor, flywheel, extra arm wands, aaahhh! It's enough to drive one mad.

I'm determined to go stock for a good long while. Until I get fully acquainted with the Scout, I doubt I would appreciate the difference any of the upgrades would make.

As an aside: I'm still high on this thing. I listened for a few more hours last night and my first impressions are definitely holding up and even becoming more pronounced.

dbowker
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I have the Well-Tempered Classic and I have yet to find a compelling reason to change it up after almost twenty years. Mostly it's just that it's so good at what it does and has just about zero chance of wearing out. I know there are better tables or arms out there, but I'd have to shell out double what it costs today to really justify it.

That being said, it's simplicity of design is a major pain to set up, and it has no ability to deal with bouncy floors or other environmental bumps. It's antiskate sucks frankly (way too much).

There are times when I've thought, is this thing worth all this trouble? wouldn't it be nice to have it all just simple and easy to adjust and understand?

But...The thing just sounds incredible, and for anywhere near the price you won't get a quieter or more neutral rig. WAY deep bass and excellent details. So I'm keeping mine, but I'd say only get it if you're OK with some serious "under the hood" setup action.

linden518
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I'm happy for you buddy! I think you're at the stage, with your Scout/Graham Slee, where you'll have to spend significantly more to get any marked improvement. Since you already have the Scout, I don't think you need to have that "I'm-upgrading-my-TT-in-a-year" mentality. If you come into the money, I'd rather go for a sweet cartridge instead (mono anyone?), and the SDS (what tonearm are you using, btw?)

SDS is supposed to be one of the best drive systems out there. I've heard of many VPI users proclaim that with the addition of the SDS, it was like getting a brand new TT with improvements in virtually all the sonic characteristics... it's a drive system based on pulse wave rather than sine wave, so it should add a significant improvement in torque. For the explanation why mucho torque = better sound, AD's article on Audio Note TT has a great explanation:

http://stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/listening_75/

(incidentally, judicata, the Audio Note TT that AD writes about is based on Voyd TTs, an example of which I linked a few posts back...)

Anyway, I also know a friend who all but gave up on his Thorens 124 because of speed/motor issues, but has added the SDS... now he loves the TT...

At any rate, have fun!

judicata
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Thanks. I have the JMW 9. I think I'll consider an extra arm and a mono cartridge. I had no idea these arms were so easy to switch out. If I can find a mono cart that wouldn't require an adjustment to height, it'd be a fantastic setup.

judicata
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I noticed some mistracking with my Rega Exact cart. I hadn't noticed it until recently -- actually right before I replaced my TT. But now it seems a little worse on the Scout. I suspect that either (1) the Exact is wearing out (entirely possible, it is about that time); or (2) the Scout is revealing the tracking problems that some have identified with the Exact.

So, I ordered a Dynavector 10x5, which I hope works out pretty well. I also my get the Exact retipped... anyone have thoughts on that?

ncdrawl
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Yes...send it to Soundsmith.

judicata
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Yes...send it to Soundsmith.

Well, I couldn't ask for a more direct answer than that. I'm pretty sure I will do that. My other option would be to sell it. But being the honest guy that I am, I would describe the situation in item description and probably wouldn't get much out of it. I figure a soundsmith-retipped Exact would sell pretty well, though. That is, if I decide not to keep it.

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