Flashhog
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Too many choices, how to narrow?
Jan Vigne
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The issue is not about a Toyota vs a Lexus. The issue is about your needs and your tastes. Unfortunately in this case, I don't believe you can pick components by either; 1) having someone else choose for you, or 2) reading reviews. Would a certain system be that much different if you swapped out a single component? That's impossibe to tell you. Obviously, we choose our systems based on personal preferences and ideals. If you swapped the McIntosh for a Rotel and vice versa, I think many of the forum members would describe a difference. Those who did not probably believe any good component sounds much like any other good component. Or, for whatever reason, they aren't listening for and sensitive to those things the Mac and the Rotel do different from one another. If you swapped out the McIntosh for the Ayre, the same answer would apply so it is not just a matter of cost though you do tend to get what you pay for no matter whether you are considering a component or a car. A Lexus is not an Acura nor is it a BMW though all are fine vehicles. If you didn't realize this before you drove any of those vehicles and simply consider a car a way to get from point A to point B, you probably would be just as happy with a Toyota or Honda.

When reading reviews you should first be narrowing down the number of reviewers with preferences you perceive as similar to your own. Pay attention to what those specific reviewers say. If you can't get to the point where you can identify which reviewer is speaking on your terms, then I would suggest you have more time to spend with live music getting yourself familiar with its sound and then tackling what qualities you hear in a live performance that excite you.

j_j
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Quote:
Unfortunately in this case, I don't believe you can pick components by either; 1) having someone else choose for you, or 2) reading reviews.

Indeed. And, in the case of speakers, unless you're an acoustics expert, listening to them IN THE PLACE YOU PLAN TO PUT THEM.

Yes, appearance, etc, will affect your judgement, but you know, you DO have to look at them on a daily basis.

To reduce this to the absurd, if you made the best sounding loudspeakers in the world, then put purple neon tubing around them, I doubt you'd sell many, including to me.

Eric51
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The problem of too many choices is such a real problem, I just want to assure you that we ALL deal with this!

My experience has been to NOT bite at the expensive option (not that I have that much of an option, but I could if I really wanted to!).

The way to go is the "teaser" option. Go with the proven high end stuff that is offered at a bargain price! Not so easy to do! You could go used.

Or you could go with for example - Magneplanar MMG's - a high end plannar speaker that has an "introductory" product that you can experiment with. You can get a very good feel for the "high end" without the price tag. Another example - the T-amp. I would suggest the Winsome Labs Mouse - $400 clams to get a taste of the high end - even a taste of tubes. We are not talking a ton of money here! Then you have to look into a sub with the MMG's - many options here. I have a HSU research. Research is key!

Is it hard and frustrating? Yes at times. I have sent a few products back with my tail between my legs. Not a good feeling!

We all go through it!

Eric

JoeE SP9
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Haven't you ever heard of going to a dealer and actually auditioning some components? So what if you're in Indonesia. Wait till you're back in the real world. Then get off your lazy ass and go audition the gear you are interested in.
Most of us who are spending a couple of kilobucks want to see hear and touch what our hard earned dollars are being spent on.

Narrow what search? You already have a short list of what you're interested in. What are you looking for, a painless no effort way to buy gear? If that's what you're after come see me when you get back to civilization and I'll select all your gear for you. I only ask a small (60%) comission on the total cost.

Please excuse my rude and nasty remarks. After a while I and I'm sure others get tired of someone reading reviews and specs and asking others to choose what to buy from a list of stuff they have never seen outside of a web site. This is a hobby! It's an intensely personal hobby. If you get others to do all the work what's the point. More so, how can you know what you really want if you rely on others to make your decisions?

Eric51:
IMHO MMG's are the best buy in audio. With the return policy Magnepan has you can't lose even if you don't like them. A pair of MG-1's purchased in 1976 were my first planar speakers. No boxes have crossed my listening room door since!

Flashhog
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I really appreciate the input (except for JoeE), I have since been learning a lot about room acoustics treatments, thank you realtraps.com. Instead of putting the money saved by not buying speakers into the stereo components, I have decided to invest a lot more money into the acoustic treatment of my listening room than I had originally planned. As for narrowing my choices, I guess I'll just have to wait till I get back to the good 'ole US of A and have a listen. Thanks again.
BTW JoeE, I have a large list of components, those were only a few at the top of my list. As I stated in my original post, I am just looking for some direction "so I don't waste a lot of time when I get back to the US in finding something I like." I'm here overseas for three years, with nothing to listen to except my laptop, so you can bet one of the first things I'll be doing is getting off my "lazy ass" and auditioning some components.
Is this the way all new people to this hobby are treated on this forum? I love to teach people, and at work when I get a new trainee, I really enjoy sharing my knowledge with them and watching them grow, we do on the other hand have a few old crusty engineers who hate having trainees.

linden518
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Quote:
Haven't you ever heard of going to a dealer and actually auditioning some components? So what if you're in Indonesia. Wait till you're back in the real world. Then get off your lazy ass and go audition the gear you are interested in.


Classy. Why the hell would you say that to someone new to the forum?

JoeE SP9
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Quote:
I really appreciate the input (except for JoeE), I have since been learning a lot about room acoustics treatments, thank you realtraps.com. Instead of putting the money saved by not buying speakers into the stereo components, I have decided to invest a lot more money into the acoustic treatment of my listening room than I had originally planned. As for narrowing my choices, I guess I'll just have to wait till I get back to the good 'ole US of A and have a listen. Thanks again.
BTW JoeE, I have a large list of components, those were only a few at the top of my list. As I stated in my original post, I am just looking for some direction "so I don't waste a lot of time when I get back to the US in finding something I like." I'm here overseas for three years, with nothing to listen to except my laptop, so you can bet one of the first things I'll be doing is getting off my "lazy ass" and auditioning some components.
Is this the way all new people to this hobby are treated on this forum? I love to teach people, and at work when I get a new trainee, I really enjoy sharing my knowledge with them and watching them grow, we do on the other hand have a few old crusty engineers who hate having trainees.

Flashdog:
Please accept my apologies for going a little to far. There are many who search the web, retrieve a list of gear, present that list to a forum and ask someone to make choices for them. This gets to be old hat after a while.
You say you have a large list of components. If your list is that large maybe you're asking the wrong questions. A forum like this is a good place to get help when deciding between 2 or 3 competing products. You're asking others to make choices when you have no concrete idea what your direction is. Do you also want help deciding what recordings to buy?
A better way to approach this is to have some idea what your ultimate goal is. If you are trying to choose between two pre-amps or two power amps a lot of good advice can be solicited. When you present a list of a dozen different components from as many manufacturers you will get a dozen different recommendations. That can't be any help.
Be specific about what you want and are trying to accomplish. I'm sure you'll then get sensible well thought out answers. You definitely wouldn't get sarcasm and derision from me.
If you had some idea of your speaker choice your equipment choices could be substantially narrowed.
BTW:
I was a teacher at one time. It was both the most difficult and most rewarding job I ever had. I guess I've turned into one of those crusty old engineers.

JohnMichael
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I also am looking for a new integrated amp and live in an area where there is not much with which to listen and enjoy. They also do not have my speakers so it is tough to hear what pairing might create synergy. I have been reading reviews on my list of interesting integrated amps. So good luck in your search and I hope to also make a good choice. I will be buying or ordering from a place that allows a 30 day trial period.

JoeE SP9
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That 30 day trial is the only way to go even if the local dealer has everything you have.

commsysman
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If you start with the AYRE C7, or perhaps the new SONY SCD-XA5400 (which seems to be excellent and a steal at $1500) you will know you have truly excellent sound originating at the heart of your system.

Any comparisons of equipment further downstream in the sonic path are problematical if you do NOT have a CD player (or Turntable) of that quality or higher. I know this from hard-won experience over many many years.

I made the common mistake, many years ago, of buying excellent speakers before I had anything good to send to them (I thought my so-so CD player and turntable were good enough....WRONG!!!!!!); the inevitable result was terrible sound coming out of excellent speakers (gee...they sounded so much better in the store...lol).

Put your money at the source FIRST! All else is folly!!

Then invest in some fairly decent amplification.

To illustrate this point, a friend of mine who owned a stereo store did a demonstration once. He hooked a very good CD player and integrated amplifier (several thousand dollars each) to a $200 pair of Boston Acoustics 2-way speakers; the sound was very very good (but rolled-off in the low bass, of course).

He then connected a $600 Yamaha CD player to a $1400 Yamaha Integrated amplifier (their top-of-the-line at the time...20 years ago), and hooked them up to a pair of $10,000 top-quality speakers, and then a pair of Vandersteen Model 2 speakers, also excellent. The sound was absolute shit in both cases!

The money needs to go to the front end first, and the speakers last!

Send garbage to a pair of good speakers, and they will tell you "here it is; I am faithfully reproducing the crap you are sending me...don't shoot the messenger"...lol!

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