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CECE
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There is no such thing

as "audiophile grade" wiring device. Nor UL approved. UL listed, they list , they don't approve. And, did UL test and list with the nomenclature "audiophile grade", since there is no such listed products in UL standards, audiophile grade. Words mean something in NEMA and the electrical industry, not on audiophile planet. http://www.musicdirect.com/products/images.php?i=-1&p=66768&h=83820

CECE
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Re: There is no such thing

It has hospital grade stamped in it, why does teh front say "audiophile grade" can't be both, and what hospital grade with a UL LISTING is made of copper and gold plated? Was this before or after UL tests? As a consumer, I would want to know. Which is what and how? http://www.musicdirect.com/products/images.php?i=-1&p=66768&h=83820

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Re: There is no such thing
bifcake
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Re: There is no such thing

You can go and browse for porn, but even that gets old after a while.

CECE
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Re: There is no such thing

I want to know how to sell a wall outlet with 2 classifications for $90 friggin dollars!!! One a NEMA classification, teh other an advertising spec. $90 !!!! Warren Buffet should learn how to get such a return on an investment in ink, and ad copy.

SAS Audio
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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:
I want to know how to sell a wall outlet with 2 classifications for $90 friggin dollars!!! One a NEMA classification, teh other an advertising spec. $90 !!!! Warren Buffet should learn how to get such a return on an investment in ink, and ad copy.

Hey dup,

I just explained basic information on why gold plated all copper special order outlets cost so much to manufacture in the string "$99 wall outlets", page 4, you have been posting at. Here is the link. Just scroll down to my post 50061.

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...part=4&vc=1

CECE
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Re: There is no such thing

a $99 wall outlet!!! Have you ever been to a Grainger or local electrical supply? or any place that is in teh trade? $99 specail coated wall outlets, yupper, I'm sure you fully get it!!! And you can hear what this magic does right? You couldn't hear a 49 cent Leviton residential grade over the most expesnive Shubtayuntayushi for the incredible $350 tag!!! or anything else....it's the most BS filled line of crap ever. Design good ckts, high speed, low distortion, etc...the wall outlets either conenct or don't that's the end of sound in a wiring device.
But back to teh question what is an "audiograde" wiring device, since you are "in the business". NEMA or UL or ETL don't have that classification on wall outlets, yet these are tagged with that term, did UL test to the audio grade specs? Let me know will ya? Bogus is as Bogus does. If you go along with this kind of nonsense, how much nonsense is built into YOUR stuff? If teh wall device is "audiophile grade" shouldn't the ckt breaker in teh service panel also be? Now let's find audio grade breakers!!! What a line of crap

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Re: There is no such thing

This needs to be all audio grade? http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/powertest/distribution/dp_poster/product_map.htm

CECE
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Re: There is no such thing

This probably doesn't sound as good as the magic $99 outlet would it? The special coating is needed right? http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/bryant/catalogpages/c12.pdf

SAS Audio
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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:
a $99 wall outlet!!! Have you ever been to a Grainger or local electrical supply? or any place that is in teh trade? $99 specail coated wall outlets, yupper, I'm sure you fully get it!!! And you can hear what this magic does right? You couldn't hear a 49 cent Leviton residential grade over the most expesnive Shubtayuntayushi for the incredible $350 tag!!! or anything else....it's the most BS filled line of crap ever. Design good ckts, high speed, low distortion, etc...the wall outlets either conenct or don't that's the end of sound in a wiring device.
But back to teh question what is an "audiograde" wiring device, since you are "in the business". NEMA or UL or ETL don't have that classification on wall outlets, yet these are tagged with that term, did UL test to the audio grade specs? Let me know will ya? Bogus is as Bogus does. If you go along with this kind of nonsense, how much nonsense is built into YOUR stuff? If teh wall device is "audiophile grade" shouldn't the ckt breaker in teh service panel also be? Now let's find audio grade breakers!!! What a line of crap

I see you sidestepped the question, just responding to your post 50264. You are the one who brought up the question of cost for specially manufactured outlets.

SAS Audio
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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:
This probably doesn't sound as good as the magic $99 outlet would it? The special coating is needed right? http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/bryant/catalogpages/c12.pdf

Why not do a proper dbt test and see dup. 3 back and forths for each test until one reaches, say 15 total back and forths. Take your time, a test each day, and keep the volume around 70db average, don't go bass heavy as this will mask sonic differences. That is right, you do not believe in testing.

CECE
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Re: There is no such thing

What is "specially mfg'd" outlets? The "special" ink used on teh BOGUS "audio grade" mark on teh front. Hospital grade, commercial grade, are all mfg'd everyday by lotsa makers Leviton, P&S Hubbell, what is SPECIAL. Look on the back of the yoke stamped in in Hospital Grade.....what is special except for teh special confusion you are betwixed by. Are you sure you are a mfg? $99 outlets don't exist in the electrical trades for AUDIO....hospital grade classification has a higher pull out issue and usually nylon face to stand up to harsh chemcials used to clean the hospital enviroments. What is SPECIAL? If hospital grade which has a harsh envroment doesn't need gold plating, why on earth does your house or listening area need it for friggin audio, you don't understand teh BASICS. So your listening area is a harher area than any commercial mfg place, hospital or what? How gullible are you anyway?

CECE
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Re: There is no such thing

70dB, do you listen with anything turned on?

SAS Audio
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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:
70dB, do you listen with anything turned on?

As mentioned before, 70db keeps the cochlea from fatigueing as quickly. Even then repeats must be kept to a minimum. We are comparing two entities so we want the cochlea to remain as fresh as possible. You obviously don't do testing.

My link described what was involved in special products IF you had bothered to read it Dup.

But you seem to not be interested in the truth, as evidenced over and over with your similar posts.

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Re: There is no such thing

Special products, you are one obsfurcated talking dude, I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. Everything is special....what special what, outlets? What are you talking about?
And my Cochlea is as fresh as a summer's eve....do you ever listen to music at realistic levels. You do a test, not knowing what wall device you have, you ain't gonna hear a wall outlet, are you putting me on or what? Why does it only work on audio, not lighting, or tv's or a hair drier? How does a wall outlet effect the sound, did you do measuremetns, what are teh differences you found, between one with magic coatings and some standard devices, what's in teh audio advantage magic stuff? Are you an electrical engieer? do you have any logical thoughts on stuff?

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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:

And my Cochlea is as fresh as a summer's eve....

What a gem of a line! This is why I love DUP! He's so under appreciated! This is pure poetry. I love it!

SAS Audio
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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:
And my Cochlea is as fresh as a summer's eve

You have mentioned in the past over 100db for extended periods of time. So your hearing is not that good dup. Sorry but the medical literature says so. Here is one link about hearing, misconceptions and lots of other valuable information, including spl levels and permanent damage.

http://www.digital-recordings.com/publ/pubear.html

And we are doing comparisons between components, looking for sonic differences, so controlling loudness is paramount unless you want skewed/fake results.

CECE
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Re: There is no such thing

Make your own. http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-12860235764893_2020_755553

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Re: There is no such thing

DUP

Why do you promote overpriced speakers like Legacy's yet will not pay for perfectly good wire ?

Legacys's look like they came from Al's diner in Happy Days !! im surprised they dont have hidden drawers like those 18th sideboards on Antiques Roadshow. They are large blunt instrument meant to impress just with size and volume.

Im sure that sound quality is the last thing on your mind !!

Alan

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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:

Legacys's look like they came from Al's diner in Happy Days !! im surprised they dont have hidden drawers like those 18th sideboards on Antiques Roadshow. They are large blunt instrument meant to impress just with size and volume.

Im sure that sound quality is the last thing on your mind !!

Alan

Alan,

Unless you've heard them, your opinion is without merit.

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Re: There is no such thing

Alex

Since when has fact or accuracy got in the way of DUP's post s?.

Alan

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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:

Quote:

Legacys's look like they came from Al's diner in Happy Days !! im surprised they dont have hidden drawers like those 18th sideboards on Antiques Roadshow. They are large blunt instrument meant to impress just with size and volume.

Im sure that sound quality is the last thing on your mind !!

Alan

Alan,

Unless you've heard them, your opinion is without merit.

The funny thing Alex is that I've said the same thing to DUP in very similar circumstances and been dismissed and ridiculed by him. So you are asking us to show DUP a courtesy that he REFUSES to show everyone else here. I hope that all of the regulars will join me in appreciating the irony.

Welsh Hi-Fi has always carried himself as a reasonable member I'd bet there is a pretty good chance that this was much more a shot at DUP's dismissal of other's input and ideas than at Legacy. Unless of course he has heard Legacy speakers and doesn't like them. Either way as someone who regularly defends DUP (which is your right by the way) you must admit that Welsh Hi-Fi has the right to say what he said no matter the purposes behind his statements.

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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:

The funny thing Alex is that I've said the same thing to DUP in very similar circumstances and been dismissed and ridiculed by him. So you are asking us to show DUP a courtesy that he REFUSES to show everyone else here. I hope that all of the regulars will join me in appreciating the irony.

I'm not asking anyone anything. I'm simply stating that making a factual statement about a particular component's sound without having heard it is without merit.


Quote:
Welsh Hi-Fi has always carried himself as a reasonable member I'd bet there is a pretty good chance that this was much more a shot at DUP's dismissal of other's input and ideas than at Legacy. Unless of course he has heard Legacy speakers and doesn't like them. Either way as someone who regularly defends DUP (which is your right by the way) you must admit that Welsh Hi-Fi has the right to say what he said no matter the purposes behind his statements.

Absolutely. Welsh Hi-Fi can say whatever he wants in which ever manner he wants. I'm certainly not going to call for banishment or engage in a pissing match.

As far as DUP is concerned, I respect his opinions. I don't always agree, but his ideas are based on certain principles that make a great deal of sense. Where I don't agree with DUP is that I think alternative technologies (such as tube equipment, planar speakers, etc) can be engineered to sound great. I'm not as dogmatic as DUP tends to be. I understand why he tends to come off as rigid and dogmatic - he rebels against unproven claims, snake oil sales people and overpriced gear. Yes, you can say that he doesn't have to partake in the cool-aid, but it's bothersome to see lies being taken at face value by others. To that end, I think he serves a purpose as someone who snaps us out of the trans and gives us a reality check.

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Re: There is no such thing *DELETED*

Post deleted by Stephen Mejias

Welshsox
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Re: There is no such thing

Alex

I have only heard the Legacy classics, the ones that sell for about $3500. I must admit to not liking them at all, the best way I could describe my impression would be industrial. They do everything OK and in good quantity but they just are not lovable.

Anyways as Mr lowry pointed out I was not having a genuine stab at legacy, DUP's constant harping on about $99 wall sockets just annoys the heck out of me, that with the rubbish he keeps on talking about UL not approving things. It was meant as a light hearted retort but Alex you jumped to DUP's defense, this is understandable as your in the DUP camp. I know DUP would also find it reasonable to spend all Saturday in a hifi shop getting demos and then go home and buy the preferred demo unit online.

Alan

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Re: There is no such thing

Legacys are sold factory DIRECT, or though a very limited dealer network, once again Welsh is misinformed, wrong, and makes up stuff. The Classics where the FIRST one from Legacy, you are 20+ years out of touch, keep moving forward, eventually you join this time zone. Back to your original annoyances, $99 wall outlets annoy me since there is no point in their existence for hi fi. and UL never approved anything, they test, they list, or "recognize". Electrical inspectors approve, the final results, have you read any inspection stickers lately? Nah, why bother, make up stuff, based on what you imagine to be real. Alex was not in the "DUP camp" until he experienced the full faith and credit of DUP world, which is fueled by Legacy and AVA, superior products for mortals, on this planet. There has not been one single negative experience, once you have the AVA/Legacy experience. $99 wall outlets are a meaningless concept in hi fi.

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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:
Alex

I have only heard the Legacy classics, the ones that sell for about $3500. I must admit to not liking them at all, the best way I could describe my impression would be industrial. They do everything OK and in good quantity but they just are not lovable.

Fair enough. To each his own.


Quote:

Anyways as Mr lowry pointed out I was not having a genuine stab at legacy, DUP's constant harping on about $99 wall sockets just annoys the heck out of me, that with the rubbish he keeps on talking about UL not approving things.

I found that whole discussion to be retarded. It went on for way longer than it had any right to.


Quote:

It was meant as a light hearted retort but Alex you jumped to DUP's defense, this is understandable as your in the DUP camp.

I don't know that I'm in anyone's "camp". I didn't even know that there is a "camp". Why do we have to have camps? Is it a day camp or more of a concentration camp? I'm not big on camps either way. Especially if it's the latter.


Quote:

I know DUP would also find it reasonable to spend all Saturday in a hifi shop getting demos and then go home and buy the preferred demo unit online.

Alan

How do you know that? Did you ask him and did he tell you that or is it simply a rather clumsy stab at me?

In any event, you guys rant and rave about DUP and all the things he does and says. Meanwhile, you behave like little children who can't seem to play nice in a sandbox.

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Re: There is no such thing

Legacy does have a few stores around the country. I listened to them in a store in Carolton, TX a while back.

Dave

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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:

Quote:

Legacys's look like they came from Al's diner in Happy Days !! im surprised they dont have hidden drawers like those 18th sideboards on Antiques Roadshow. They are large blunt instrument meant to impress just with size and volume.

Im sure that sound quality is the last thing on your mind !!

Alan

Alan,

Unless you've heard them, your opinion is without merit.

The rococo coffin aesthetic is hard to get around regardless of performance.

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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:
The rococo coffin aesthetic...


CECE
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Re: There is no such thing

That's cus you don't have an "open mind" that is so used up on wires, but I guess you just want all your sound in a BOX. Your rectangular thinking is so out of it. You probably picked on the kids in school that didn't look like YOU, didn't you? So you say all speakers should LOOK alike? at times they even sound alike, identical cousins, 2 of a kind? WHISPER, they are works of art.

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Re: There is no such thing

http://legacyaudio.com/FYSystem.jpg

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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:

Quote:
The rococo coffin aesthetic...


es347
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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:
Special products, you are one obsfurcated talking dude, I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. Everything is special....what special what, outlets? What are you talking about?
And my Cochlea is as fresh as a summer's eve....do you ever listen to music at realistic levels. You do a test, not knowing what wall device you have, you ain't gonna hear a wall outlet, are you putting me on or what? Why does it only work on audio, not lighting, or tv's or a hair drier? How does a wall outlet effect the sound, did you do measuremetns, what are teh differences you found, between one with magic coatings and some standard devices, what's in teh audio advantage magic stuff? Are you an electrical engieer? do you have any logical thoughts on stuff?

Not to throw gasoline on this raging fire but there is a fellow on Audiogon hawking cryo'd Hubbel duplex receptacles and guys there are apparently buying them and extolling their virtues on the board. One user even said, and I'm not BSing here, that the floorlamp on the same outlet burns brighter. We can belittle or attack these fellow a'philes that spend their money on this stuff...the Tice Clock or Mpingo discs...you name it, but the irony is that folks outside this circle who aren't obsessed with this particular hobby think all of us are pretty much nuts. Next time you're sitting there in the sweet spot, motionless...eyes glazed over...think about that.

ethanwiner
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Re: There is no such thing

Forget receptacles, what about the kooks who pay $200 for a wall outlet cover?! Don't believe me? Lookie here:

http://www.cryo-parts.com/receptacle_covers.html

--Ethan

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Re: There is no such thing


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We can belittle or attack these fellow a'philes that spend their money on this stuff...

"A'philes" is not quite the term I would have used.

es347
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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:

Quote:
We can belittle or attack these fellow a'philes that spend their money on this stuff...

"A'philes" is not quite the term I would have used.

Not to be confused with A-holes. When you think about it, we are all nothing more than a bunch of mp3's, flacs, wavs.....etc.

es347
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Re: There is no such thing


Quote:
Forget receptacles, what about the kooks who pay $200 for a wall outlet cover?! Don't believe me? Lookie here:

http://www.cryo-parts.com/receptacle_covers.html

from the site:

"These use the remarkable Fo-Q [translation: FORK YOU] Anti-Resonance Material used in these superb receptacle cover plates was developed by Prof. Masao Sumita of the Tokyo Institute of Technology, with support from the JST (Japanese Science and Technology Promotion Agency [...or better known here in the states as: Japanese SCAM and TRAVESTY....]). This incredible material reduces mechanically-induced distortion using the principles of molecular friction and piezoelectric loss to remarkable effect in improving every aspect of sound and image reproduction."

What a monumental buttload of crap. The only thing it reduces is the thickness of your wallet.

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Re: There is no such thing


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What a monumental buttload of crap. The only thing it reduces is the thickness of your wallet.


Yep, yet if you ask ten people who bought those outlet covers, you'll hear all ten insist the sound really did improve.

--Ethan

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Re: There is no such thing

I'd buy a couple if they were $15.00 or less, but only because I like carbon fiber.

It's a weakness.

Unfortunately, carbon fiber and titanium have both become overly popular so they don't see quite as neat as they once did.

es347
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Re: There is no such thing

"When you think about it, we are all nothing more than a bunch of mp3's, flacs, wavs.....etc."

Nobody is going to bite on this one? OK I'll ask for you...

"what on earth are you talking about?"

I thought you'd never ask: AUDIO FILES

CECE
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Re: There is no such thing

Ok Schecky Greene...Or is it Stanley Miron Handlemann

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