You are here

Log in or register to post comments
Stephen Mejias
Stephen Mejias's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 6 days ago
Joined: Nov 7 2010 - 3:35pm
Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

Sam Tellig directs our attention to a story in today's Daily News, which lists 2010's Ten Most Overpriced Cars in America. Along similar lines, The Audiophiliac, Steve Guttenberg, recently named The Top 10 Must-Have Audio Bargains.

In your opinion, what are the current best-buy products in audio? The most overpriced products?

tomjtx
tomjtx's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 months ago
Joined: Nov 12 2006 - 2:53pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

Best Buy:

Squeezebox Touch........ Takes24/96 files. Preliminary reports say it comes quite close to Transporter in SQ I think it's 300.00.

Overpriced: Nordost speaker cable, doesn't the newest cost 30,000 for a 10 foot pair ?

Orb
Orb's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: May 28 2009 - 12:51am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

If in the high end, then I would say definitely the Devialet D-Premier is a best buy.
I am stunned how good it is (had mine now for a week) and while the price seems high, it is actually a bargain in the high end when you consider its performance that includes DAC capabilities, caveat being if the analogue is not a requirement.

Here in the UK it costs

tomjtx
tomjtx's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 months ago
Joined: Nov 12 2006 - 2:53pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

10,000 British pounds is a best buy?

WTF is wrong with you, bro?
You are everything that is wrong with the high end.
But that makes sense since you are either British or live there. When you eat crappy Brit food everyday it skews your sense of value.
Why would we value the opinion of someone with bad teeth?

Come to Texas for a valid high end opinion. We eat great BBQ, drink real beer and have good teeth (you have to ignore our beer bellies, illiteracy, inbreeding and voting for Bush, but, hey, at least we aren't gay like all the Brits.)

BTW, can you order Devialet online, could you PM me the info ?

Orb
Orb's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: May 28 2009 - 12:51am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


When considering high end.
It is a match IMO for systems (pre/power/dac) that are 2.5 to 3 times more expensive; compared to

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

Best buy?

Stereophile, of course!

More pleasure per dollar than a bottle of Mouton!

Number two:

Spending a little on listening to as much gear as possible.

Joining an audio club, going to shows, etc...

One trip to the RMAF could save someone thousands of dollars over a lifetime, given the ability to start honing in on one's predilections.

3) Used vinyl shops.

It's only a matter of thime now before we get Double Quarter Pounder 45 RPM versions of Kind of Blue that sell for a dollar a gram.

However, all the new vinyl weights and turntable talk may finally succeed at bringing us older audiphioles into the metric age wihtout a Tea Party uprising.

Did you ever wonder:

Why no angry letter to the editor at Stereophile from God fearing conservative readers who are upset that Stereophile supports that socialistic metric system?

No demands for tracking force discussion in terms of 0.0705479238 ounces instead of 2 grams?

No angry questions about why no LP weights of 6.349 ounces instead of 180m grams?

4) The Beatles on 24 bit thumb drive.

5) Used gear, in general.

6) I agree about Maggies. Too bad Apogee, Acoustat, etc...died a death.

7) The Superphon Revelation II preamp. Should be in the Hi Fi Hall of Fame.

8) Free - star grounding.

9) Love Sac listening chairs.

10) Those damn 25 dollar Sony and Phillips CD/DVD players.

struts
struts's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Feb 1 2007 - 12:02pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
If in the high end, then I would say definitely the Devialet D-Premier is a best buy.
I am stunned how good it is (had mine now for a week) and while the price seems high, it is actually a bargain in the high end when you consider its performance that includes DAC capabilities, caveat being if the analogue is not a requirement.

Here in the UK it costs

Welshsox
Welshsox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 5 months ago
Joined: Dec 13 2006 - 7:27pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

When did Texas get good beer ?

You serve cold piss

mark evans
mark evans's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: May 5 2010 - 4:06pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

On the worst buy list:

In my opinion, The absolute worst buy would once again be those ebony wood pucks known as Shun Mook Mpingo discs. $50.00/puck and $450.00 for the "spatial control kit."

I placed a trio on top of about 10 different speakers in various setups over the years with NO audible difference whatsoever. Thank God I was given some to audition and I didn't have to buy them. The so-called spatial control kit was another smoke and mirror gadget in my humble opinion. Maybe you have to actually purchase them and miraculously the buyer will experience the HUGE! soundstage. lmao!

P.S. sorry Jonathan. lol!

Mark Evans

JoeE SP9
JoeE SP9's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 1 hour ago
Joined: Oct 31 2005 - 6:02pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

General comments:

You can get good beer in Texas: It's imported.

Light beer is for wooses wimps and limp wrist's

Magneplanar, Apogee and Acoustat: Thumbs up. I have two pair of Acoustats.

Mpingo disks, Brilliant pebbles etc: What a crock!

Lexicon is in the running for the most overpriced. Maybe they should be in the running for decepetive business practices.

Oppo is in the running for best buy. Buy something from them before they raise their prices.

Emotiva is a strong contender in the best buy catagory

Used high end gear is a serious bargain!!!!!! All you high rollers and big spenders, please keep turning gear over every other year.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
On the worst buy list:

In my opinion, The absolute worst buy would once again be those ebony wood pucks known as Shun Mook Mpingo discs. $50.00/puck and $450.00 for the "spatial control kit."

I placed a trio on top of about 10 different speakers in various setups over the years with NO audible difference whatsoever. Thank God I was given some to audition and I didn't have to buy them. The so-called spatial control kit was another smoke and mirror gadget in my humble opinion. Maybe you have to actually purchase them and miraculously the buyer will experience the HUGE! soundstage. lmao!

P.S. sorry Jonathan. lol!

Mark Evans

That's odd, I have absolutely phenomenal results with the little Shun Mook discs. Even one in the room can be mind-boggling. Finding the particular place or places for the discs might not be as straightward as you perhaps assumed. Ditto the Spatial Control Kit. I gave Pierre Sprey a Mpingo disc for his exhibit at CES one year. Pierre liked it, too. A potent tonic for that humdrum sound everyone's so enamored with these days.

JasonVSerinus
JasonVSerinus's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 11 months ago
Joined: Apr 10 2006 - 11:22am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:
On the worst buy list:

In my opinion, The absolute worst buy would once again be those ebony wood pucks known as Shun Mook Mpingo discs. $50.00/puck and $450.00 for the "spatial control kit."

I placed a trio on top of about 10 different speakers in various setups over the years with NO audible difference whatsoever. Thank God I was given some to audition and I didn't have to buy them. The so-called spatial control kit was another smoke and mirror gadget in my humble opinion. Maybe you have to actually purchase them and miraculously the buyer will experience the HUGE! soundstage. lmao!

P.S. sorry Jonathan. lol!

Mark Evans

That's odd, I have absolutely phenomenal results with the little Shun Mook discs. Even one in the room can be mind-boggling. Finding the particular place or places for the discs might not be as straightward as you perhaps assumed. Ditto the Spatial Control Kit. I gave Pierre Sprey a Mpingo disc for his exhibit at CES one year. Pierre liked it, too. A potent tonic for that humdrum sound everyone's so enamored with these days.

I have a friend who swears by these. Whenever I get a new tweek made of wood, he is quick to point out when it contains ebony. (He says there's ebony in the Shakti Hallographs, which work wonders). The Shun Mook folks, who are in Oakland where we both live, love him.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
On the worst buy list:

In my opinion, The absolute worst buy would once again be those ebony wood pucks known as Shun Mook Mpingo discs. $50.00/puck and $450.00 for the "spatial control kit."

I placed a trio on top of about 10 different speakers in various setups over the years with NO audible difference whatsoever. Thank God I was given some to audition and I didn't have to buy them. The so-called spatial control kit was another smoke and mirror gadget in my humble opinion. Maybe you have to actually purchase them and miraculously the buyer will experience the HUGE! soundstage. lmao!

P.S. sorry Jonathan. lol!

Mark Evans

That's odd, I have absolutely phenomenal results with the little Shun Mook discs. Even one in the room can be mind-boggling. Finding the particular place or places for the discs might not be as straightward as you perhaps assumed. Ditto the Spatial Control Kit. I gave Pierre Sprey a Mpingo disc for his exhibit at CES one year. Pierre liked it, too. A potent tonic for that humdrum sound everyone's so enamored with these days.

I have a friend who swears by these. Whenever I get a new tweek made of wood, he is quick to point out when it contains ebony. (He says there's ebony in the Shakti Hallographs, which work wonders). The Shun Mook folks, who are in Oakland where we both live, love him.

An interesting thing about the rather innocuous looking Mpingo disc is how it affects the upper bass and midrange. Hmmmm...

rvance
rvance's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 9 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2007 - 9:58am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

I wouldn't know what the "worst buys" are since I haven't had the opportunity to audition the real expensive stuff and my system wouldn't add up to make use of those $20k cables. Hmmm...cables, a nice economy car or a used BMW...what should I buy?

For "expensive" stuff the Quad ESL 57's were certainly a relative bargain in the '70's compared to what was out there. And the Grado F3E was about 30 bucks, too.

Grado cart's and headphones, Wharfedale speakers, Marantz electronics, Bellari pre's are, IMO, great bargains. Of course, that's what I own.

Paradigm speakers are very cost-effective. Music Hall TT's are giant killers.

mark evans
mark evans's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: May 5 2010 - 4:06pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:
On the worst buy list:

In my opinion, The absolute worst buy would once again be those ebony wood pucks known as Shun Mook Mpingo discs. $50.00/puck and $450.00 for the "spatial control kit."

I placed a trio on top of about 10 different speakers in various setups over the years with NO audible difference whatsoever. Thank God I was given some to audition and I didn't have to buy them. The so-called spatial control kit was another smoke and mirror gadget in my humble opinion. Maybe you have to actually purchase them and miraculously the buyer will experience the HUGE! soundstage. lmao!

P.S. sorry Jonathan. lol!

Mark Evans

That's odd, I have absolutely phenomenal results with the little Shun Mook discs. Even one in the room can be mind-boggling. Finding the particular place or places for the discs might not be as straightward as you perhaps assumed. Ditto the Spatial Control Kit. I gave Pierre Sprey a Mpingo disc for his exhibit at CES one year. Pierre liked it, too. A potent tonic for that humdrum sound everyone's so enamored with these days.

Question: Your company, Machina Dynamica produces the "Intelligent chip" right?

A 1 inch piece of orange square plastic that has an embedded "quantum(invisible)dot." This intelligent chip is to be placed on top of a Cd player while it is playing. You then remove it and that will make a difference in the music reproduction. Right?

On your website, You advertise the "Teleportation tweak" Right?

Your website says:
"You obtain the Teleportation Tweak during a phone call to Machina Dynamica. The tweak itself takes about 20 seconds and will sound like a series of sharp, mechanical impulses."

The teleportation tweak costs $60.00. Right?

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
On the worst buy list:

In my opinion, The absolute worst buy would once again be those ebony wood pucks known as Shun Mook Mpingo discs. $50.00/puck and $450.00 for the "spatial control kit."

I placed a trio on top of about 10 different speakers in various setups over the years with NO audible difference whatsoever. Thank God I was given some to audition and I didn't have to buy them. The so-called spatial control kit was another smoke and mirror gadget in my humble opinion. Maybe you have to actually purchase them and miraculously the buyer will experience the HUGE! soundstage. lmao!

P.S. sorry Jonathan. lol!

Mark Evans

That's odd, I have absolutely phenomenal results with the little Shun Mook discs. Even one in the room can be mind-boggling. Finding the particular place or places for the discs might not be as straightward as you perhaps assumed. Ditto the Spatial Control Kit. I gave Pierre Sprey a Mpingo disc for his exhibit at CES one year. Pierre liked it, too. A potent tonic for that humdrum sound everyone's so enamored with these days.

Question: Your company, Machina Dynamica produces the "Intelligent chip" right?

A 1 inch piece of orange square plastic that has an embedded "quantum(invisible)dot." This intelligent chip is to be placed on top of a Cd player while it is playing. You then remove it and that will make a difference in the music reproduction. Right?

On your website, You advertise the "Teleportation tweak" Right?

Your website says:
"You obtain the Teleportation Tweak during a phone call to Machina Dynamica. The tweak itself takes about 20 seconds and will sound like a series of sharp, mechanical impulses."

The teleportation tweak costs $60.00. Right?

Note to self: Is it just me or is it getting harder to tell when these guys are being sarcastic?

mark evans
mark evans's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: May 5 2010 - 4:06pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
On the worst buy list:

In my opinion, The absolute worst buy would once again be those ebony wood pucks known as Shun Mook Mpingo discs. $50.00/puck and $450.00 for the "spatial control kit."

I placed a trio on top of about 10 different speakers in various setups over the years with NO audible difference whatsoever. Thank God I was given some to audition and I didn't have to buy them. The so-called spatial control kit was another smoke and mirror gadget in my humble opinion. Maybe you have to actually purchase them and miraculously the buyer will experience the HUGE! soundstage. lmao!

P.S. sorry Jonathan. lol!

Mark Evans

That's odd, I have absolutely phenomenal results with the little Shun Mook discs. Even one in the room can be mind-boggling. Finding the particular place or places for the discs might not be as straightward as you perhaps assumed. Ditto the Spatial Control Kit. I gave Pierre Sprey a Mpingo disc for his exhibit at CES one year. Pierre liked it, too. A potent tonic for that humdrum sound everyone's so enamored with these days.

Question: Your company, Machina Dynamica produces the "Intelligent chip" right?

A 1 inch piece of orange square plastic that has an embedded "quantum(invisible)dot." This intelligent chip is to be placed on top of a Cd player while it is playing. You then remove it and that will make a difference in the music reproduction. Right?

On your website, You advertise the "Teleportation tweak" Right?

Your website says:
"You obtain the Teleportation Tweak during a phone call to Machina Dynamica. The tweak itself takes about 20 seconds and will sound like a series of sharp, mechanical impulses."

The teleportation tweak costs $60.00. Right?

Note to self: Is it just me or is it getting harder to tell when these guys are being sarcastic?

Is asking questions about your product sarcasm?

Well if it is...and keep in mind my quotes are direct from your website, Then your website claims are full of sarcasm. You made my point.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
On the worst buy list:

In my opinion, The absolute worst buy would once again be those ebony wood pucks known as Shun Mook Mpingo discs. $50.00/puck and $450.00 for the "spatial control kit."

I placed a trio on top of about 10 different speakers in various setups over the years with NO audible difference whatsoever. Thank God I was given some to audition and I didn't have to buy them. The so-called spatial control kit was another smoke and mirror gadget in my humble opinion. Maybe you have to actually purchase them and miraculously the buyer will experience the HUGE! soundstage. lmao!

P.S. sorry Jonathan. lol!

Mark Evans

That's odd, I have absolutely phenomenal results with the little Shun Mook discs. Even one in the room can be mind-boggling. Finding the particular place or places for the discs might not be as straightward as you perhaps assumed. Ditto the Spatial Control Kit. I gave Pierre Sprey a Mpingo disc for his exhibit at CES one year. Pierre liked it, too. A potent tonic for that humdrum sound everyone's so enamored with these days.

Question: Your company, Machina Dynamica produces the "Intelligent chip" right?

A 1 inch piece of orange square plastic that has an embedded "quantum(invisible)dot." This intelligent chip is to be placed on top of a Cd player while it is playing. You then remove it and that will make a difference in the music reproduction. Right?

On your website, You advertise the "Teleportation tweak" Right?

Your website says:
"You obtain the Teleportation Tweak during a phone call to Machina Dynamica. The tweak itself takes about 20 seconds and will sound like a series of sharp, mechanical impulses."

The teleportation tweak costs $60.00. Right?

Note to self: Is it just me or is it getting harder to tell when these guys are being sarcastic?

Is asking questions about your product sarcasm?

Well if it is...and keep in mind my quotes are direct from your website, Then your website claims are full of sarcasm. You made my point.

Geez, I sure as heck didn't see that coming. Score one for the dookie heads.

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

"The tweak itself...will sound like a series of sharp, mechanical impulses."

Unless I'm listening to John Cage or electronica, why would I want a tweak that sounds "like a series of sharp, mechanical impulses."

Thanks for the warning.

mark evans
mark evans's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: May 5 2010 - 4:06pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

Exactly Buddah. I thought a tweak was suppose to eliminate or deaden unwanted noise and not produce anything audible.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
Exactly Buddah. I thought a tweak was suppose to eliminate or deaden unwanted noise and not produce anything audible.

Congratulations, that's almost a complete sentence.

The tweak in question is performed for 20 seconds, prior to any listening or, in some cases, while music is played. The system can be ON or OFF when the tweak is performed. Saves on house calls. It's quite possible this tweak disobeys a fundamental law of physics.

mark evans
mark evans's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: May 5 2010 - 4:06pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:
Exactly Buddah. I thought a tweak was suppose to eliminate or deaden unwanted noise and not produce anything audible.

Congratulations, that's almost a complete sentence.

It's quite possible this tweak disobeys a fundamental law of physics.

It's quite possible that this tweak disobeys honest marketing practices too.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
It's quite possible this tweak disobeys a fundamental law of physics.


Where are those physics cops when you need them?

mark evans
mark evans's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: May 5 2010 - 4:06pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:
It's quite possible this tweak disobeys a fundamental law of physics.


Where are those physics cops when you need them?

LMAO!

Kind of a nice gig if you don't have a conscience.

A guy calls you up for $60.00. You send some 'pulses' over the phone and he is duped into believing his audio system's resolution is phenominally better just because of a phone call.

Nevermind the physics cops. Where is Rod Serling (Twilight Zone) when you need him?

Amazing.. just when you think you have heard it all.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
It's quite possible that this tweak disobeys honest marketing practices too.

I knew you were going to say that! Gee, I must have ESP.

Now, begone Troll!

mark evans
mark evans's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: May 5 2010 - 4:06pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:
It's quite possible that this tweak disobeys honest marketing practices too.

I knew you were going to say that! Gee, I must have ESP.

Now, begone Troll!

What's the matter? Did the orderlies at the hospital make you get off the wall phone while you were sending out pulses over it?

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
I knew you were going to say that! Gee, I must have ESP.


Reminds me of the old joke:

Why do phone psychics ask for your name when they already knew you were going to call? Why do they need to ask for your credit card number?

While I don't accept for a moment that phone bleeps have any impact on the sound of a audio system, if the bleeping purchaser finds bleeping beneficial and worth the bleeping money, he received his bleeping money's worth.

mark evans
mark evans's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: May 5 2010 - 4:06pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:
I knew you were going to say that! Gee, I must have ESP.


Reminds me of the old joke:

Why do phone psychics ask for your name when they already knew you were going to call? Why do they need to ask for your credit card number?

While I don't accept for a moment that phone bleeps have any impact on the sound of a audio system, if the bleeping purchaser finds bleeping beneficial and worth the bleeping money, he received his bleeping money's worth.

That's funny! Great joke.

Yeah, but the sad thing is.. many well meaning audiophiles with sincere hopes and intentions of obtaining the musical grail seemingly fall prey to these pseudo physics guys that wow them with meaningless intellectual jargon.

My advice to my customers is: First, research the gear. learn everything you can about the gear. Find the appropriate gear to suit your listening room.

It's sad to see people become so obsessed with tweaks that they wind up eventually spending more on the gadgets when all they had to do was spend that money on better gear.

Certain tweaks are fine. Some do work. That's irrefutable.
But the realm of the ridiculous should be exposed for what it is.. Sheer profiteering.

It's sad to see our hobby/lifestyle devolve into this. A 20 second $60.00 phone call.

Mark

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
Yeah, but the sad thing is.. many well meaning audiophiles with sincere hopes and intentions of obtaining the musical grail seemingly fall prey to these pseudo physics guys that wow them with meaningless intellectual jargon.

Uh, a retired fireman calling out an engineer. Yes, intellectual jargon can be pretty tough, I guess, for a retired fireman.


Quote:
My advice to my customers is: First, research the gear. learn everything you can about the gear. Find the appropriate gear to suit your listening room.

What kind of gear did you guys have at the firehouse?


Quote:
It's sad to see people become so obsessed with tweaks that they wind up eventually spending more on the gadgets when all they had to do was spend that money on better gear.

Do tell. Are you referring to the guys back at the firehouse?


Quote:
Certain tweaks are fine. Some do work. That's irrefutable.
But the realm of the ridiculous should be exposed for what it is.. Sheer profiteering.

Some tweaks do work? I assume you mean the ones that make sense to a fireman?


Quote:
It's sad to see our hobby/lifestyle devolve into this. A 20 second $60.00 phone call.

When you say "our," can I assume you're referring to the guys back at the firehouse, again? Hey, it could have been only 10 seconds, lighten up!

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
Yeah, but the sad thing is.. many well meaning audiophiles with sincere hopes and intentions of obtaining the musical grail seemingly fall prey to these pseudo physics guys that wow them with meaningless intellectual jargon.


Like any group of obsessive hobbyists we are willing to buy tweaks that a "normal" person wouldn't even vaguely consider.

For example, some auto enthusiasts are just as enthralled with wires as we are, believing that special spark plug wires allow an engine to make more power.

The arguments for and against these wires are essentially the same that audiophiles use when arguing about cables, including arguments about measurements, capacitance and resistance and the like, and "I can tell there is more power even if it can't be measured on a dyno."

I don't see any harm in either as long as the vendor provides a money back guarantee after a reasonable evaluation time. If it works for the buyer and is worth to him what he spent everyone is happy.

I object however to pseudo-science explanations. If you know how it works in engineering terms, tell us.

If you have an unconventional theory of operation, tell us (as the Belts do with their devices).

If you honestly believe it works and have no clue why, be honest and tell us this.

In each case, the buyer can then decide what he/she is willing to try. I may conclude it is aged unadulterated BS, but you may want to give it a try.

These are not health remedies that need an additional level of protection nor are these vendors likely to prey upon the powerless.

So how does one return 20 seconds of bleeps?

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:
Yeah, but the sad thing is.. many well meaning audiophiles with sincere hopes and intentions of obtaining the musical grail seemingly fall prey to these pseudo physics guys that wow them with meaningless intellectual jargon.


Like any group of obsessive hobbyists we are willing to buy tweaks that a "normal" person wouldn't even vaguely consider.

For example, some auto enthusiasts are just as enthralled with wires as we are, believing that special spark plug wires allow an engine to make more power.

The arguments for and against these wires are essentially the same that audiophiles use when arguing about cables, including arguments about measurements, capacitance and resistance and the like, and "I can tell there is more power even if it can't be measured on a dyno."

I don't see any harm in either as long as the vendor provides a money back guarantee after a reasonable evaluation time. If it works for the buyer and is worth to him what he spent everyone is happy.

I object however to pseudo-science explanations. If you know how it works in engineering terms, tell us.

If you have an unconventional theory of operation, tell us (as the Belts do with their devices).

If you honestly believe it works and have no clue why, be honest and tell us this.

In each case, the buyer can then decide what he/she is willing to try. I may conclude it is aged unadulterated BS, but you may want to give it a try.

These are not health remedies that need an additional level of protection nor are these vendors likely to prey upon the powerless.

So how does one return 20 seconds of bleeps?

With all due respect to the length of your post, I must point out that your example/analogy of special spark plugs is a pretty lame example of what we're taking about here. Every yahoo in Ohio has special spark plugs, fer crying out loud. What we should be using as examples are things like cryogenically treating engine parts, cryogenically treating the entire engine, use of highly specialized tires, special wiring, Shakti On-lines on the electronic distribution wires, special fuel mixtures, water injection systems, high technology metals or plastic for the body. Things of that nature. You know, things the average Yahoo wouldn't dream of doing, or if he read about it, would not or could not attempt it.

As far as explanations of wild or outrageous products are concerned, speaking for myself, most of my products come with detailed explanations. Certain ones I prefer not to explain. (There may actually only be one in that category, now, IIRC) That is my prerogative, after all... isn't it?

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Uh, a retired fireman calling out an engineer. Yes, intellectual jargon can be pretty tough, I guess, for a retired fireman.

Wow, Geoff.

You may be right, we should all acquiesce to whatever J_J says, as he has the longest C.V. and 'bonafides.'

You sound just like the Amazing Randi there, Geoff.

Well done!

Yeah, he's only a lowly old retired fireman.


Quote:

With all due respect to the length of your post, I must point out that your example/analogy of special spark plugs is a pretty lame example of what we're taking about here. Every yahoo in Ohio has special spark plugs, fer crying out loud. What we should be using as examples are things like cryogenically treating engine parts, cryogenically treating the entire engine, use of highly specialized tires, special wiring, Shakti On-lines on the electronic distribution wires, special fuel mixtures, water injection systems, high technology metals or plastic for the body. Things of that nature. You know, things the average Yahoo wouldn't dream of doing, or if he read about it, would not or could not attempt it.

So, Geoff, how do any of those car guys validate a tweak?

Ever hear them say, "It doesn't change any measured parameter of performance or measurably increase my speed or decrease my lap times; it doesn't improve parts life, or any measurable aspect of mileage, safety, acceleration, braking, cornering, or anything, but dammit, that tweak is worth the money."

Nope.

Talk about straw men....equating your work with automotive tweaks that enhance actual performance is a rich new vien!

Better lay off huffing the teleportation medium for a few days.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
So, Geoff, how do any of those car guys validate a tweak?
Ever hear them say, "It doesn't change any measured parameter of performance or measurably increase my speed or decrease my lap times; it doesn't improve parts life, or any measurable aspect of mileage, safety, acceleration, braking, cornering, or anything, but dammit, that tweak is worth the money."

Yes, I've heard some of them say that. Uh, that's why they're controversial. There will always be reports that exotic tweaks don't work, are fraudulent, strictly for the gullible, a waste of money or whatever. Gee, I guess there are trolls and naysayers in every industry. If it weren't for trolls, naysayers, people who are all thumbs, people who cannot follow directions, folks who cannot get out of first gear and malcontents, these tweaks would not be controversial. God bless 'em!

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Yes, I've heard some of them say that.

As Henry Rollins would say...

"You're a liar..."

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:

Yes, I've heard some of them say that.

As Henry Rollins would say...

"You're a liar..."

How about not freaking me out so early in the morning? You're up early, I'm guessing a throbbing headache. My condolences to your liver.

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

How about not freaking me out so early in the morning? You're up early, I'm guessing a throbbing headache. My condolences to your liver.

Up early?

No, up late.

Doggie had surgery and needs some TLC.

You, sir, are up early...but then you likely have your alarm clock set in the future! Or would a clock that tells time be too objective for you? I mean, that's measuring something.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:

How about not freaking me out so early in the morning? You're up early, I'm guessing a throbbing headache. My condolences to your liver.

Up early?

No, up late.

Doggie had surgery and needs some TLC.

You, sir, are up early...but then you likely have your alarm clock set in the future! Or would a clock that tells time be too objective for you? I mean, that's measuring something.

Sorry to about your pooch. Hope he gets better soon. I imagine he'd be pretty indispensable for those late night blind tests....

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

I imagine he'd be pretty indispensable for those late night blind tests....

Excellent!

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:
Like any group of obsessive hobbyists we are willing to buy tweaks that a "normal" person wouldn't even vaguely consider.

For example, some auto enthusiasts are just as enthralled with wires as we are, believing that special spark plug wires allow an engine to make more power.

With all due respect to the length of your post, I must point out that your example/analogy of special spark plugs is a pretty lame example of what we're taking about here.


LOL

You inadvertently just made my point. I am talking about spark wires that a "normal" person wouldn't even vaguely consider.

When it comes to high performance cars, you are apparently a "normal" person and don't know about "magic" $300.00+ spark plug wires.

Perhaps you are fortunate; you are not exposed to yet another set of arguments that wires don't matter - all that matters is measurements, capacitance and resistance.

As I indicated before, offer a solid money back guarantee and let the buyer decide whether it is worth the money or is completely worthless. This puts the nutty hobbyist on the same footing.

Drtrey3
Drtrey3's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 1 week ago
Joined: Aug 17 2008 - 2:52pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

I do not have enough experience to discuss overpriced gear. But as for bargain gear:

Rega, especially the turntables!
Denon, better sound that you think you will get.
Outlaw subwoofer, lots of sub and woof for the money!
Used records that were never played by their original owner!
Hardware store speaker wire, thick and cheap.

Trey

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
Used records that were never played by their original owner!


And used CDs!

I have had great success buying over the Internet. Once in a while I get one in a cracked jewel case - usually already disclosed by the seller.

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
While I don't accept for a moment that phone bleeps have any impact on the sound of a audio system, if the bleeping purchaser finds bleeping beneficial and worth the bleeping money, he received his bleeping money's worth.

A fool and his money...

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:
While I don't accept for a moment that phone bleeps have any impact on the sound of a audio system, if the bleeping purchaser finds bleeping beneficial and worth the bleeping money, he received his bleeping money's worth.

A fool and his money...

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

Right...two fools and their money.

Thanks for pointing that out.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
Right...two fools and their money.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Good one, Lieutenant! I didn't see that coming.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
Right...two fools and their money.

Thanks for pointing that out.


More accurately, two fools and their bleeping money.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 55 min ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:
Right...two fools and their money.

Thanks for pointing that out.


More accurately, two fools and their bleeping money.

Ilk, it's not funny when you use the same joke over and over. Don't any of you Bozos have some original material?

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

Tough crowd.

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Right...two fools and their money.

Thanks for pointing that out.


More accurately, two fools and their bleeping money.

Ilk, it's not funny when you use the same joke over and over. Don't any of you Bozos have some original material?

Elk, it's not bleeping funny when you use the same bleeping joke over and bleeping over. Don't any of you bleeping Bozos have some original bleeping material?

I changed it back to "Elk" because I know you don't like repetitive humor and you've used "Ilk" already.

Glotz
Glotz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 19 hours ago
Joined: Nov 20 2008 - 9:30am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?

I come back each month, and its the same de-evolution of threads and ad hominem bs. So, I am going to join in yet again on the fun...

Man, if you own a great enough system where everything is really well-sorted and throws a truly nice soundstage (I don't), this stuff does work to bring you even better sound. In the case of Hallographs, they are simply investing more money and effort in similar but definable ways over the more 'standard' room treatment approach (how do standards get created without new ideas?!), like gobos or tube traps, and you know what? There are some cheaper methods to creating your own, for almost the same ratio from price to performance as if you spent a lot of cash on the best. "You pay, You Get..." (Gee, where did that come from?)

But then again, this market holds ingenuity at a premium, so it the prices are for the most part justified. When you have the money to spend, you generally will appreciate the product one helluva lot more than if you didn't. And not because of wishful thinking or bs psychology, it comes from die-hard audio fans spending already huge sums of time AND money on their systems. (That's experience listening to the friggin' system they are improving!!!)

But there are areas of where you can invest in 'craziness'... and actually find that most if not all of the 'crap' actually works. (And if not, you build your OWN spikes, constrained layer damping discs, stands for your Maggies, tube traps, or modify your speaker Xover components, until then...)

In the context of the a modest system or even a mid-fi piece of crap, most if not all tweaks don't work as stated. Hallographs, Mpingo ebony discs or clamps, Cardas Caps, etc.. ALL work, but only in a system that has had its owner lovingly match the components, cables and placement of everything properly, and over huge amounts of time. It's the expensive power conditioners, record clamps and everything else in the world that will push a pretty great system to the realm of magic, happiness or just plain better sound as a synergistic whole of the parts.

Man so tired of hearing flat-earth douchebags in the Letters every month crap on our hobby. Fuck sake- die already!

Glotz
Glotz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 19 hours ago
Joined: Nov 20 2008 - 9:30am
Re: Ten Best Buys / Ten Worst Buys?


Quote:
10,000 British pounds is a best buy?

WTF is wrong with you, bro?
You are everything that is wrong with the high end.
But that makes sense since you are either British or live there. When you eat crappy Brit food everyday it skews your sense of value.
Why would we value the opinion of someone with bad teeth?

Come to Texas for a valid high end opinion. We eat great BBQ, drink real beer and have good teeth (you have to ignore our beer bellies, illiteracy, inbreeding and voting for Bush, but, hey, at least we aren't gay like all the Brits.)

BTW, can you order Devialet online, could you PM me the info ?

There's things to love from Texas, but you're not one of them.

Stick your self on a spit and turn... Dickweed.

Pages

  • X