Analog sources: Dr. Feickert Analogue Blackbird turntable with Schick 10.5" tonearm; Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, My Sonic Lab Ultra Eminent Ex, K&K Audio Lundahl LL1931Ag SUT, Kitsuné KTE LCR-1 and Tavish Design Adagio phono stages.
Digital sources: Roon Nucleus+ music server; dCS Bartók D/A processor.
Preamplifier: Rogue Audio RP-7.
Power amplifiers: Parasound Halo A21+, Elekit TU-8600S, Feliks Audio Arioso.
Loudspeakers: Falcon Gold Badge LS3/5a, Harbeth M30.2, Magnepan .7.
Cables: Interconnect: Cardas Clear Cygnus, Black Cat Coppertone, Triode Wire Labs Spirit II. Speaker: Triode Wire Labs American Series. AC: AudioQuest Tornado, manufacturer's own.
Accessories: Harmonic Resolution Systems M3X-1719-AMG GR LF isolation platform; Sound Anchor Reference speaker stands, AudioQuest Niagara 1000 power conditioner.—Herb Reichert
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COMMENTS
I have a very old , very massive SVS sub that burned out its amplifier a year ago , SVS quickly sent me a new , upgraded amp with replacement directions for a modest sum .
Good people.
If I wasn't already over-endowed with bass capability , I'd love this new mini-sub .
Señor Herb, could we beg the dimensions of your room?
I would love to get these, but I wonder if my room might not be a good fit.
Also, your opinion on one sub vs. two.
My fantasy is two of these babies lurking where they are felt, but not seen!
Thank you for the lovely review on a gREAT topic!
my room measures 13' x 11' x 9.5' high. But!!!! It has no doors. Both sides of my main speakers open into hallways leading to other open ooms. So the volume is quite large and the boundaries are nebulous. Voice sounds clear and natural anywhere in this room. What's funny though, is how the system sounds noticeably muddy and less dynamic with the bedroom door (which is down at the end of a hall) closed. Also, the room is small enough that even without a sub, it sounds different with the windows open or closed. Rooms, like people and dogs and cats, have very distinct personalities.
On the one or two sub question: I can't advise because I've never been in your room. And . . . I am just now beginning to learn about how different subs 'feel' in my room.
good luck
herb
Hi
Easy easy, my friend. Adding subs to a home audio system is no "fantasy" at all. IMO, it is NEEDED !
FYI, I've installed 3 x 10" driver active subs to my humble system (L, R, L+R) many years back. I never look back as I am so so gratified having done so to ENHANCE my music enjoyment.
Why 3 subs so many? Well, as I already posted here before, there is usually an array of microphones (L, R, & L+R) overhanging the performance podium to pick the overall performance & acoustics of the hall. So Why not 3 subs then, to reproduce what the mics picked up ?
Listening is believing
Jack L
I’m glad you enjoyed the album. I recently was introduced to The Arcadian Wild’s album “Finch in the Pantry”; since you’ve avowed a love of bluegrass I think you’ll enjoy it as well. Not as emotionally enthralling as “Bloom” but great fun and poignant at times, with what to me seems like excellent recording of a live band (possibly a single centered stereo mic?). My buddy brought over the 180 gram 45 rpm vinyl, but it sounded as good on Tidal to me.
I recently replaced my 12” sealed SVS sub with the REL T/5x. The boom and overhang are gone, but I’m not sure it has the output I need in my larger open-concept space. Do I go for a second T/5x or jump up sizes? First world problems.
I loved Bloom.
Now I think before you try another sub, you might wanna try Roscoe Holcomb's Folkways album The High Lonsome (Folkways LP FA 2368) it is so "emotionally enthralling" it cracks my chest open.
Meanwhile, with subwoofers, and regular loudspeakers, no one can advise from afar. You have to try them and see how they feel in your room.
hr.
I’m enjoying Roscoe Holcomb now. Though I never heard this music much growing up it’s in my blood somehow; generations of farmers in upstate SC and western KY course through these veins. My uncle half jokes that my grandfather was a real life Ulysses Everett McGill in his younger years, and I’m inclined to half believe it.
I did mean the sub question to be rhetorical, but if you’re ever in Atlanta you’re welcome to stop by for some Decware / full-range driver / subwoofer fun. With a toddler and a wife who likes to go to bed earlier than I do it’s been hard to find time to fully express the neurosis required for proper subwoofer integration. My attempt during dinner preparation yesterday wasn’t well received.
Here in Australia, the 3000 micro is just over half the price of the SB3000. I imagine this would be due to much reduced shipping costs for the Micro’s micro shipping size, comparatively?
Either way, it makes 2 x 3000 Micro’s a feasible and affordable option for those of us not in USA, which is a definite win.
Great review, as always. As a proud member of the "need" a subwoofer camp, it's driven me bonkers to read sub reviews with no comparisons to other subs, only comparisons of stand mounts with and without subs. Even worse, stand mount reviews that do not use subs, then opine that the speakers could use a bit more base (Doh!) As you illustrate with the Harbeths, subs can be transformative. So many a speaker review is incomplete without them. Cheers!
how meny subs do you have? & which ones...
I have two systems with one sub each:
My first is a REL T5 paired with B&W CM-1s--it is a direct competitor to the SVS in the review, except it does not have an app. Just as the SVS, it takes some time to set up, and has a dramatic impact, breathing life into the sound. My little REL also has helped some very good floor standers.
My primary system is a couple of steps up the food chain--a B&W DB3D paired with B&W 805s. I chose the DB because B&W designed them specifically to match with their 800 series, and the DB app's automatic room correction makes placement and set up extraordinarily easy--just a few minutes.
Whatever your price point, if you do not have gigantic floor standers, it would be hard to find better bang for the buck than a well-matched sub.
Good luck!
thank you...which sub do you like the best....?
I prefer the B&W, but it's 3-4X the price, so maybe that's not a surprise.
B&W, REL, and SVS are all excellent. As Herb points out, matching is critical. So the best thing to do is get help from your local dealer if you have one. If you do not have one, I think I'd reach out to one or two of these companies online and ask for help matching to your main speakers. Good luck!
Dear Herb, Great article as usual. I was wondering whether you have played around with high pass for the speakers? This article I find very interesting: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/High-Pass-Filter.htm
..JA could figure out a way to test subs. I'm assuming he has a very good reason for not.
I wonder if Herb managed to come to a rest with certain settings. It might be tempting to incessantly readjust these subwoofer settings. Just in order to compensate for constantly shifting sound imperfections on a per-record basis.
is when its right (at any price level) we can relax breathe easy and notice all the little flowers in the back corners of the soundstage
no?
Hi
Surprised to see from the picture above showing yr audition was carried out with the Falcon micros sitting on a table !
Would it be much better to have had the Falcons mounted on a pair of sturdy tall stands as Rogers always sound best when mounted on designated heavy duty tall stands, IMO.
I never want to listen to any small bookshelvers without mounted properly on floor stands as the sound will be subtantially compromised.
Listening is believing
Jack L
Surprised to see from the picture above showing yr audition was carried out with the Falcon micros sitting on a table!
That's a stock "lifestyle" photo supplied by SVS.
John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile
Hi
Glad you pointed it out.
No wonder! But still, the sub manufacturer should know better how to achieve better sound using the sub with proper placement of
the main speakers.
Jack
My original Rogers LS3/5a came directly from CBS Television studios with Rogers factory wall mounts.
These small BBC monitors are voiced to work well near a wall or sitting on a recording console. They work very well on a desk.
Likewise the KEF LS50 works 'fine' sitting on a bureau or desk.
hr
hr
Hi
Yes, I fully agree when the monitors were used in studio when detailed accuracy in reproduction is paramount.
Yet, for HOME use, IMO, it will be an entirely different ballgame where closest to live performance is paramount.
So mini loudspeakers, e.g. the Rogers, MUST be placed on designated heavy-duty tall stands, far away from the walls & any furniture, etc. in order to get the best result, in term of image size & positioning, soundstaging & spatial envelopment etc. This is my experience.
I want to visualize the performance playing behind & beyond the loudspeakers back wall with sky being the limit for the performance atmosphere. When music is on, all loudspeakers are sonically 'vanished'.
Quality small loudspeakers mounted properly on quality tall stands can do the job.
Yes, difference objectives even for the same loudspeakers.
listening is believing
Jack L
I would certainly love that!
Herb, that Hosokawa/Mozart/Momo Kodama Record is mysterious, etherial and fabulous. Thanks for putting it on my radar. ECM delivers once again.
It reminds me of the old Sunfire Junior (replaced by the Super Junior)subwoofer. Similar size and an excellent performer. A side by side comparison would be interesting. This SVS 3000 Micro have great adjustability so if might be a little easier to fit in with different main speakers and room.
Mr.HR and his many associates seem to have access to ( or already own ) The phenomenal Abyss Headphone with it's 7 hz. Sub capabilities.
Should we ask for how this little Subwoofer System compares with a known outstanding ?
It might be 'unfair' to compare any large multi-driver transducer system that's limited by Room interactions, crossovers , wire, amplification, DACs but having an available reference is what a Reference is all about, isn't it?
Price wise, an Abyss System would be comparable in cost if not a bit less.
Tony in Venice Florida
ps. from the perspective of a 'decades-ago' importer and dealer for full-range Audio Systems, I have a feeling that my own modest & very vintage Sennheiser HD580 has no trouble ( effortlessly ) outperforming large loudspeaker systems . ( I do own full-range loudspeakers for background music )
Probably great for when you host Hi Fi Club meetings, as well!
No vinyl, headphones are the reference...was your store called "Onan's?"
My Audio Industry participation was during the Vinyl era, which has diminished to about 3% of the Media Sales now-a-days.
For the most part, a SubWoofer isn't needed for 33.3 which Engineers curtailed due to the groove limitations of Vinyl .
Recording people can now include significant content in the lowest Frequencies, tons of dynamic Range ( 20 bits ) and even feature loooooonnnnngggg decays.
Tony in Venice Florida
Fine wine accounts for about 3% of total wine sales.
Fine dining makes up 1.4% of the restaurant segment.
I assume you also troll the wine and food forums telling them how Gallo Hearty Boxed Wine and McDonalds are the food trends you have latched onto?
Jazz sales make up only a small portion of the market compared to pop.
And you say digital is providing scads of dynamic range?
I think Onan may be your patron saint.
Fine wine is 3%, hmm. Are the 97% cheap drunks?
Music Format buyers were once Vinyl buyers that abandoned 33.3 by an overwhelming percentage for overwhelming reasons that everyone knows well.
Committed 33.3 people are still sarcastically crying over the milk spilled long ago, almost shunning the non-believing. Has 33.3 become a Cult ?
Going back is not an option.
Tony in Venice Florida
Hi Tony
Sorry to disagree.
Apparently you haven't tried out good LPs with sub bass music using quality subs yet.
Here I just quote 2 LPs I own that pump out floor rocking sub bass notes via my 3 subs (L, R L+R) hooked up direct to my design/built tube phono-linestage:
(1) Richard Strauss ALso Sprach Zarathustra played by Boston Symphony directed by William Steinberg. (DGG 2535 209 1971).
I can virtualize some 20Hz subbass notes slowly crawling toward me, followed immediately by sharp powerful kettle drum beats !! Breathtaking transient !
(2) Andrew DAvis plays the organ at Roy Thomson Hall (CBC ERA 109
digital master 1984)
The last track of Olivier Messiaen rocks my 700sq ft basement audio den !!
I am yet to audition any CDs that can impressed like the above 2 LPs.
Listening is believing
Jack L
Thanks for writing back,
My relationship with 33.3 Vinyl is primarily historic.
I still own a Stored Collection of Recordings that will probably end up in someone else's hands.
I rely on portable gear that easily reaches into the ultra low frequencies with powerful authority.
Perhaps there are some Vinyls that reach down to the lowest range, I'll accept that you discovered 2ea. ! I'd be worried that the Player would resonate with those powerful pressures to create a feedback loop.
Ultra low frequency capability remains kinda frightening to me as I encounter it, it's a Jurassic Park Predator feeling that has me looking around for a scary attack.
However
I love listening to Drums which now seem more Live and Real than they ever did over multidriver music systems. 5 or 6 watts in a headphone system accomplishes what a couple thousand Subwoofer Watts might do.
And Piano recording now seem to have a much richer range of harmonics than I recall my previous Full Range systems revealing.
Home Audio Gear is benefiting from plenty of juried Engineering talent now-a-days. ( older favorite gear might sound limited by comparison ) .
Vintage gear still sells well & 300B WESTERN ELECTRIC Tubes still cost mega dollars while an outstanding ABYSS Diana & Head Fi Amp ( both made in USA ) cost $5,000 US.
Tony in Venice Florida
Hi
YES, I love the ELEGANT sound of vintage WE300b like crazy. It sounds sooo effortless, so airy & so captivating. Yes, it ask for mega bucks assuming genuine ones are still available.
But for those rich & affordable who already own crazy priced amps, like USD125,000 Audio Note Japan 'Kegon' (17W+17W 2x2WE300B), whatever 'mega' bucks to pay for the vintage WE300Bs is only peanut to them.
I can only sum up the lively sound of WE300B:
"A Cinderella spinning ballet in her dancing shoes !"
Jack L
It seems that Tubes are the easiest and least expensive way to have outstanding Sound Quality.
I'll submit the low priced Schiit Valhalla 2 ( for $300 used ) and a partial set of Russian Glass ( for around $200 ) will delight.
But Glass has a rather short half-life compared to a Solid State device.
Still: Tube rolling can be cheaper than outright buying pricy Transistor Gear.
Tube Rolling is also a crazy-fun hobby in/of itself.
I live with the Sound Quality limitations of Shirt Pocket Gear that travels well, besides I'm not going for the addictive dopamine release when I'm out ( which is most of the time ).
Tony in Venice Florida
ps. $1,500 for assured Sound Quality ( WE 300B pair ) seems reasonable if they live for the thousands of hours claimed.
Hi
Yes, "glass" is a vacuum state device & stops working when atmospheric air gets into the tube sooner or later, depending on the tube internal structure. Power tubes normally go faster due to operating at the high voltage/current, resulting thermal runaway due to very high operating temperatures.
That said, driver tubes will last much longer due to cooler working on lower voltage/currents.
FYI, the vintage 50-year-plus-old Telefunken ECC83s used in my design/built phono-linestage for many years now, are still kicking butts with no sign of backing down. Believe it not, they are operating off 440V HV DC supply --- no sweat !!
Jack L
I agree, Tubes can last a Lonnnnnnggggg time.
Keep those fingers crossed.
Tony in Venice Florida
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc-review-headphone.23411/
Are you the person that performed this Review?
Are you confident that this review is accurate ?
Have you auditioned any of the Abyss Products or are you making decisions based on someone's technical measurements ?
Still, all these Graphs might just be what Outstanding looks like on a Oscilloscope. ( or what might be the Closest to Outstanding we've ever gotten to )
I have my own audiosciencereview that I use to evaluate, why would I need someone's mic, Scope and signals?
--- I did tend to trust Tyll & John Atkinson's measurements ---
Tony in Venice Florida.
How can we know if it is a good product without the measurements???
Please add the measurements. Reviewing hi-fi without measurements makes no sense.
A must for me in a subwoofer is freedom from cabinet resonance. Setting a low crossover frequency for proper mains integration is rendered useless if the enclosure produces midbass frequencies. I have ditched several subwoofers because the audible frequencies from the cabinet create coloration that affects the clarity of the main's midrange. Even worse cabinet buzzing at higher frequencies can cause localization of the subwoofer- something we all strive to avoid.
Can you please take your subwoofer reviewing up a level and start measuring for cabinet resonance same as you do for loudspeakers?
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