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hollowman
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Spiritual tweaking, anyone?

Anyone try the metaphysical approach? Either by themselves (as in spiritual healing or metal bending or "magic") or by a shaman/yogi/mystic doing it for you or your audio group?
Specifically concentrating and "healing" your components and accessories?
Maybe conduct experiments (with your group) -- double blind, etc?
Indeed, many devices may come from manufs that deliberately "energize" their components this way?
Or maybe it's NOT "deliberate", per se, but as a result of total "mental energy" devoted to project. Say, a complex pre-amp vs. a minimal-component pre-amp. Often the former can sound/measure superior to the "straight-line" model. But why? No clear answer has ever been given on this phenomenon, TTBOMK.
Please note that all this is DIFFERENT from -- and way beyond -- tradit objective/subjective discussions and debates: those that involve "expensive" cables and use of esoteric components. Or "magic" aftermarket accessories or even cryogenic treatment.
The Stereophile community, I speculate , is open to such transcendental, and more-mature discussions on this mostly unexplored topic.

geoffkait
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You may not be aware of Peter

You may not be aware of Peter Belt and PWB Electronics in Leeds, England. The subconscious mind and it’s influence on the sound we hear. Mind-matter interaction, the importance and influence of information fields on the mind, the mind as a transceiver. Sadly, audiophiles don’t want to hear anything about it, they really don’t. Audiophiles want to hear about components, that is the full extent of it, I’m afraid, what’s the best DAC, what solid state amp sounds most like a tube amp. Audiophiles want “pure science” and “pure engineering.” So, discussions usually cannot get too far from their preconceived notions of what science allows or demands. Science and reality are not the same thing, science being an attempt to explain reality.

“A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Arthur C. Clarke

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PWB Electronics

I looked at their website and read some articles. Whew, I'm glad I'm not sensitive enough to notice some of the things they notice degrading the sound, such as a pen torch in the room or pocket calculator being turned on. I do agree though that my mental state has a very large effect on my perception of sound quality. Also what I've been listening to previously can have a big effect, not just by being "better" or "worse" but just from being different and having acclimated myself to it. I recently watched the 2nd Sonic movie and there was a scene where the bad guy is stuck on a mushroom planet. He's trying desperately to come up with a coffee substitute made from mushrooms but has no luck and ends up spewing it all out every time. When he finally makes it back to earth he gets to have the real coffee he's been missing for a year. He comments it's very good indeed, but could use a little more mushroom.

hollowman
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psychedelics, etc

The mention of mushrooms above reminded me of something tangential. I haven't uses psychedelics, but yes ... cannabis on several occasions several decades ago. It was "unique."

hollowman
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The science of spirituality (and NOETICs)

Like some of us, math, physics and engineering are our academic and professional background.
Believe it or not, the PHENOMENON of consciousness (aka "spirituality") has been 7-sigma documented by major universities and respected scientific journals.

https://youtu.be/nRSBaq3vAeY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-DOXie3FmI

hollowman
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Experiments with non-local manipulation (double slit)

In the aforementioned presentation by Dr. Radin noted Princeton Univ.'s The Global Consciousness Project--Meaningful Correlations in Random Data. Random Number Generators "picked up" disruptions in random statistical noise (signal) when newsworthy events occurred.
This potentially means presence of conscious lifeforms can affect electronic data. Maybe your local audio society should DELIBERATELY mediated, pray and concentrate when evaluating gear.

geoffkait
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As the only distributor for

As the only distributor for the Mind Lamp from Psyleron, the brain child of the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research PEAR group investigating engineering anomalies, which evolved some years ago into the Global Consciousness group you alluded to, I think I can say without fear of retribution that the Mind Lamp demonstrates that the mind can definitely influence the outcome of mechanical/electronic objects. Mind over matter, as it were. The Mind Lamp contains an internal simple but extremely sensitive pseudo-random number generator that controls how the colors of the lamp change over time.

With nobody in the room the probability any one color will appear next is 1/8 since there are eight colors. The time a particular color is displayed is also random and controlled by the RNG. But when a person is in the room with the Mind Lamp probability changes. For example, if the person in the room is consciously thinking of the color RED the probability that the next color displayed increases from 1/8 to a higher number, for example 1/7. If two people in the room are both thinking of the same color the probability will be higher still, say 1/6. If no one in the room is thinking *consciously* of a color the probability can still change since subconscious thoughts per se can affect the probability. Does this mean you can knock over a bicycle just by thinking about it? No.

geoffkait
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Influence of PWB type factors

Since many of the (local and remote) factors affecting how one hears/perceives sound are *subconscious* you are not aware of the degree sound is degraded by those factors. Since you’ve been accustomed to hearing sound under these *degraded circumstances* all your life you accept that sound as “normal.” But the “better sound* - the really good sound” is in the room all the time, you just can’t hear it accurately or completely due to the factors I’m referring to.

hollowman
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Paranormal phenomena, UFOs, aliens, synchronicity, and magic.

geoffkait:
Yes to much of what you note.
Spirituality and science were never separated into two competing camps by any human culture except Europeans (and only AFTER the Enlightenment). This may have been a good thing as it separated both paradigms allowing each to evolve in amplified solitude.
Scientists and established academia are resistant to new ways of thinking ... even when Nature's clues are are in plain sight [note: The Subject header of THIS post],
I'm confident Science will come around, as noted by Kuhn (1960) in "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions
============
Kuhn challenged the then prevailing view of progress in science in which scientific progress was viewed as "development-by-accumulation" of accepted facts and theories. Kuhn argued for an episodic model in which periods of conceptual continuity where there is cumulative progress, which Kuhn referred to as periods of "normal science", were interrupted by periods of revolutionary science. The discovery of "anomalies" during revolutions in science leads to new paradigms. New paradigms then ask new questions of old data, move beyond the mere "puzzle-solving" of the previous paradigm, change the rules of the game and the "map" directing new research.[1]
==========

geoffkait
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I’m more skeptical, it

I’m more skeptical, it appears. Zen and the Art of Debunkery introduction expresses my opinion regarding science and the scientific community, especially as it relates to high end audio.

“Like all systems of truth seeking, science, properly conducted, has a profoundly expansive, liberating impulse at its core. This "Zen" in the heart of science is revealed when the practitioner sets aside arbitrary beliefs and cultural preconceptions, and approaches the nature of things with "beginner's mind." When this is done, reality can speak freshly and freely, and can be heard more clearly. Appropriate testing and objective validation can--indeed, *must*--come later.

Seeing with humility, curiosity and fresh eyes was once the main point of science. But today it is often a different story. As the scientific enterprise has been bent toward exploitation, institutionalization, hyperspecialization and new orthodoxy, it has increasingly preoccupied itself with disconnected facts in a psychological, social and ecological vacuum. So disconnected has official science become from the greater scheme of things, that it tends to deny or disregard entire domains of reality and to satisfy itself with reducing all of life and consciousness to a dead physics.”

hollowman
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Subjective audiophiles--and "superposition" thinking

Perhaps subjective audiophiles are more open to the speculative nature of this thread than dedicated, hard-core scientists PURELY exploring and documenting OBSERVABLE and METROLOGICAL phenomenon. That is, subjective audiophile of a certain maturity (Sterophile and TAS readers) are exposed to ART (music, lyrics/poetry, jacket/liner art, topical magazines and books), and SCIENCE (electronics and physics; measurable in 2022 w/best avail science instruments, techniques and skillsets; and objectively controversial tweaks, such as cables).
The earlier-noted landmark Kuhn book (1962) owes much to earlier projects such as those of Arthur Koestler.
His 1959 book "The Sleepwalkers: A History of Man's Changing Vision of the Universe" may be summarized as follows:
=========
The Sleepwalkers: A History of Man's Changing Vision of the Universe is a 1959 book by Arthur Koestler. It traces the history of Western cosmology from ancient Mesopotamia to Isaac Newton. He suggests that discoveries in science arise through a process akin to sleepwalking. Not that they arise by chance, but rather that scientists are neither fully aware of what guides their research, nor are they fully aware of the implications of what they discover.

A central theme of the book is the changing relationship between faith and reason. Koestler explores how these seemingly contradictory threads existed harmoniously in many of the greatest intellectuals of the West. He illustrates that while the two are estranged today, in the past the most ground-breaking thinkers were often very spiritual.

Another recurrent theme of this book is the breaking of paradigms in order to create new ones. People, scientists included, cling to cherished old beliefs with such love and attachment that they refuse to see what is wrong in their ideas and the truth in the new ideas that will replace them. (This point was developed a few years afterwards by Thomas Kuhn in "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions", in which the concept of "paradigm shift" came to the fore.)

Without denying the greatness of Galileo Galilei and the other modern scientists, he pointed out their mistakes and sometimes intellectual dishonesty, arguing that: "The scientific revolution's intellectual giants were dwarfs from a moral point of view". "The conclusion he puts forward at the end of the book is that modern science is trying too hard to be rational. Scientists have been at their best when they allowed themselves to behave as 'sleepwalkers,' instead of trying too earnestly to ratiocinate."


=============

geoffkait
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Things I consider

Things I consider controversial in the context of this discussion on metaphysics, the subconscious and spirituality include, but are not limited to, PWB Silver Rainbow Foil, Morphic Message Labels, the Red x Pen, the lightbulb tweak, the Clever Little Clock, Schumann frequency generator, Teleportation Tweak. Some other things may be difficult to explain but far somewhere between metaphysics and physics - The Intelligent Chip, WA Quantum Chips, Mpingo discs, directionality of wire and fuses, freezing CDs in the home freezer, coloring and demagnetizing CDs.

I do not consider cables per se controversial. But I do consider demagnetizing cables, neutralizing static electric charge on cables, and directionality of cables controversional in the classical physic sense, but not in the metaphysical sense.

“Made the scene, week to week, day to day, hour to hour, break on through to the other side!”

“A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

“If I could explain it to the average person they wouldn’t have given me the Nobel prize.”

geoffkait
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Some free “spiritual tweaks”

Some free “spiritual tweaks”

1. Take all batteries in the house, including unused new batteries, and place them in the freezer for two days.
2. Take any red pen and draw a line through all bar codes on CDs, DVDs, Blu Ray, books, cosmetics, food, cleaning supplies, etc.
3. Thrown away all old newspapers, magazines and similar “trash.”
4. Ensure all CDs, LPs, books are stored in the vertical position.
5. Remove all unused audio equipment and cables, speakers from the listening room, put them in the garage or another room.
6. If you have books in your listening room take them all to another room.

hollowman
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Tweaks and things

"I do not consider cables per se controversial. But I do consider demagnetizing cables, neutralizing static electric charge on cables, and directionality of cables controversial in the classical physic sense, but not in the metaphysical sense."
Yes ... CLASSICAL (or so called modern or quantum physics as known circa late 2022) ... but as eluded to by AP's own Dan Foley ... perhaps ULTIMATELY quantifiable with improved skills, improved mathematical techniques and improvements in metrology instruments, including those based on superconductivity, meta-materials and quantum computing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6d14cTiCjI

==============

All that said, perhaps simple, inexpensive and quantifiable experiments can still be done in the "spiritual" domain.
E.g., three LPs (all from same batch run; e.g., MFSL pressing 002, 003, 004).
LP1 (normal)
LP2 (LAST or Gruv-glide treated)
LP3 ( "spirituality" treated; say via metal bending, healing, or related "magic" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3X9h1WlQpA)

geoffkait
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There would be much less

There would be much less debate if everyone agreed what the “audio signal” is in cables. So far, everyone is shooting blanks in the dark.

Experiments can be done in the “spiritual domain.” But I don’t see anybody rushing to do them. I don’t see anybody rushing in to even try to understand what I mean by the “spiritual domain.” Besides, what would you measure? Surely not R, C and L. Surely not electrical noise and distortion on an oscilloscope. Surely not acoustic waves. A brain scan? A polygraph test? Then what?

“People would be much better off if they believed in too much rather than too little.”

geoffkait
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In my world treating an LP

In my world treating an LP with a demagnetizer, anti-static device, cryogenics are not really examples of spiritual type tweaks.

Some examples of “spiritual tweaks” for LPs are,

1. Keeping LPs stacked vertically not horizontally.
2. Marking the outer edge of the LP with a violet permanent marker.
3. Freezing the LP in the home freezer for 48 hours.
4. Marking through the barcodes on all LPs with a fine point permanent ink pen.

In other words I’m defining “spiritual tweaks” as being NOT directly or indirectly related to anything in the audio chain, not components, not physical media, not cables, not acoustic waves, not house wiring. You could say they act on the person not the system.

hollowman
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US Army research / Stanford Research Institute (SRI)

It's understandable that hard-core objectivity is necessary for extraordinary claims. Actually, such prestigious academic and journal-published and military-backed proof of hard-to-believe topics covered in this thread have existed since the mid 1970s.
This may have huge importance to areas of audio and psycho-acoustics.
Please see:

Scientific and Spiritual Implications of Psychic Abilities - Russell Targ

https://youtu.be/zgyYms376Mg
===================
209,881 views
Feb 17, 2015
What do the healer, the mystic, the psychic, and the spy all have in common? They are all in touch with their non-local mind and our community of spirit. During the 1970’s and 80’s, Stanford Research Institute (SRI) carried out investigations of our ability to experience
and describe distant events blocked from ordinary perception. is intuitive capacity was named remote viewing, and the research was supported by the CIA, NASA and many other government organizations for gathering intelligence information about world-wide activities during the Cold War.

Physicist Russell Targ, co-founder of this previously SECRET psychic research program, will describe the very best evidence for extrasensory perception, precognition, intuitive diagnosis and distant healing. He will describe many of these applications, together with the spiritual implications of psychic abilities from the Hindu mystic Patanjali, and the Dzogchen dharma masters, down to the present time, as they might be applied to expanding ones timeless and nonlocal awareness. He will discuss developing remote viewing skill; how to recognize the actual psychic signal, and separate it from mental noise of memory, imagination, and analysis – and why should we bother with ESP? e kind of tasks that kept the SRI program in business for twenty-three years include the following: SRI psychics found a downed Russian bomber in Africa; reported on the health of American hostages in Iran; described Soviet weapons factories in Siberia; located a kidnapped US general in Italy; and accurately forecasted the failure of a Chinese atomic-bomb test three days before it occurred, etc. When San Francisco heiress Patricia Hearst was abducted from her home in Berkeley, a psychic with the SRI team was the first to identify the kidnapper by name and then accurately describe and locate the kidnap car.
===================

geoffkait
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What I’m referring to, the

What I’m referring to, the *subconscious* influence of certain factors on our hearing ability, I.e., our perception of sound, is quite different from psychic or remote viewing phenomenon. Here is an excerpt from my explanation for the Clever Little Clock that illustrates how the *subconscious* mind is affected by external factors. This is only an example of the general concept of the influence of the subconscious mind by local factors. I’m not disputing that some psychic phenomenon is real but that it’s somewhat irrelevant to this discussion. I worked with SRI back in the 90s for a while but on more mundane projects.

Time is Relative
The Clever Little Clock addresses an esoteric but fundamental problem that occurs when playing an LP, CD, DVD or any other audio or video media. This problem also occurs when watching taped programs on television or listening to recorded programming on the radio in your car or at home. In all of those cases the observer is confronted - subconsciously - by time coordinates that are different from the Present Time coordinates he's been using his entire life to time-stamp sensory information. What are these interfering time coordinates, where do they come from and why are they a problem?

The alien time coordinates are contained in the recording (or videotape). The time coordinates (of what was then Present Time) of the recorded performance, millisecond by millisecond, are captured inadvertently along with the acoustic information. When a recording is played, the time coordinates from the recording session (which are now Past Time coordinates) are reproduced by the speakers along with the acoustic signals of the recorded event. Those Past Time signals become entangled, integrated in the listener's mind with Present Time signals. Because the listener is accustomed to using Present Time signals to synchronize his chronological memory, he subconsciously perceives the confusing, interloping Past Time signals as a threat. This perceived threat produces the fight-or-flight response, which in turn degrades his sensory capabilities. The reason that live television broadcasts, like the Superbowl and the 2010 Olympics, are generally observed to have superior audio and video compared to taped broadcasts is that they don't contain Past Time signals, only Present Time ones.

The time coordinates on the recording are associated with the 4-dimensional spacetime coordinate system (x, y, z, t), where t ranges between the start time and end time of the recording session. While you could say that t0 of the spacetime coordinate system marks the first instant of the Big Bang, it's the relative difference between Past Time and Present Time that's important, not the difference between t0 and Past Time or Present Time.

geoffkait
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OK, let’s get more specific

OK, let’s get more specific about what I’m referring to when I say objects and materials in the local area affect our perception of sound (also vision). Here’s a short list of things that negatively affect our hearing,

1. Steel
2. Copper
3. Wood
4. Glass
5. Unused cables and electronics
6. All types of media - CDs, DVDs, books
7. Positive static electric charges
8. Cell phones, even when turned off
9. Clocks

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