There are many things I'd be willing to ration, but toilet paper is not one of them. That's right up there with low-flow shower heads. I also refuse to rinse out the peanut butter jar in order to recycle it.
Without getting on a global warming soapbox, I'll say that I wish climate change were seen as less of a political issue and - at the risk of sounding like Al Gore - more of a moral one.
And, yes, Sheryl Crow's music is awful.

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...And, yes, Sheryl Crow's music is awful.

As a cyclist would you still say Crow's music is awful if she was still dating Lance? ! ?

As I like to say, once a backup singer, always a backup singer. Goes double for the audiophile's favorite former backup singer Jennifer Warnes. (Boy, do I love to stir the pot!)

The New York Times could change the texture of their paper and I wouldn't even have to use toilet paper. This would be a win for everyone concerned. Sheryl would be happy that I stopped using toilet paper, the Old Gray Lady would be happy that I became a subscriber and I would be perfectly happy using their paper for a worthwhile purpose.

And people like Sheryl are the spokespeople for the left. Try living in Southeast New Mexico, eating green chili on everything and then see how long one square per visit will last.

If we took her seriously than hygiene will become a problem and things like dysentery and cholera will appear in epidemic proportions. Yeah, that's the ticket! Live like we live in a third world country by choice to save toilet paper.

Right on, Jim! Practical and achievable solutions could serve to motivate people to change. Most people cannot consider options that are not economically viable. For example, hybrid cars, though ambitious, cannot be priced low enough yet for their purchase to be financially motivated. The long-term fuel savings of a hybrid versus the most efficient gas-only models will not offset the initial investment for many thousands of miles. I think a tax credit based on fuel economy - as you suggested - instead of technology is an excellent short-term solution. The sort of ignorance that motivates toilet paper rationing isn't helping anyone.

(Yes, Jazzfan, she is irritating irrespective of association )

In the world where Cheryl Crowe lives, you gotta keep your name in play even if it takes rudeness, ignorance and stupidity to do it. It has worked for Al Gore, why not her. She's a little short, however, on doing her part to save the planet. Her requirements for her touring group begins with parking facilities for three semi-trailers, two vans, and six cars. Want to guess how many of them are hybrids? Perhaps she, like Al, also heads up a company from which she can buy some "carbon credits". Where would the rest of us be without the self proclaimed elite to tell us how we must conduct our lives?

Incidentally, her suggestion would seem to place more of the burden of saving the planet on women, wouldn't it. Do you suppose the NOW ladies will get after her for that?

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Her requirements for her touring group begins with parking facilities for three semi-trailers, two vans, and six cars. Want to guess how many of them are hybrids?

And don't forget the 4 touring buses. One of them a gourmet kitchen on wheels another with a suana and massage facilities.

Jim, you mentioned "college educated"...this does not equate to intelligence.

One square of toilet paper? I'm sure we have all seen how folks in India "dine"...pick up their food with the right hand and place the left hand behind their back, or somewhere away from the food. Do you know why? They get "one square" of paper (about the size of a paper towel). Cholera and other diseases are rampant.

I wonder if Sheryl, and Al, recycle their plastic, paper and glass. Do they flush or do they have a latrine and organically treat their own waste.

Why waste my breath.

I have a perfect solution to this issue: Bidet should be standard equipment in all wash rooms public and private. That's it. Problem solved, everyone walks away happy.

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Bidet should be standard equipment...

Aahhh, you've been to Europe!? This whole matter is a "flush"...the rich will do as they please, and crap on the rest of us.

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Bidet should be standard equipment...

Aahhh, you've been to Europe!? This whole matter is a "flush"...the rich will do as they please, and crap on the rest of us.

Don't tell that to Jim Travagia. He's the rich republican who does most of the crapping on the rest of us.

"Don't tell that to Jim Travagia. He's the rich republican who does most of the crapping on the rest of us. "

Are you nuts? Jim is one of the most congenial and helpful people frequenting this forum. Where do you come off with "...crapping on the rest of us." You're way off base, and everyone here knows it.

I agree. Jim's a great guy who is one of the most helpful and friendly people around. He deserves better than a vulgar political stereotype. It's people like him who convince left-leaning college students like me that "compassionate conservatism" might not be an oxymoron. It makes no difference to me where Jim stands politically. This forum could use a few more members like him. You know, it's easy to hide in anonymity on the internet and take stabs at people, but that doesn't make it welcome.

Look at the context in which I made my comment before you start getting all uppety.

Maybe you could clarify what you meant. I read the context and still don't get the connection to Jim.

I thought I was the only nut job on here!! lol Those people are hypocrites!
Here's an idea that will get someone going: Global warming is a fraud! Ok, this is not townhall.com
I'll try to stick to all things audio.

Not to be concerned, Alex, I got the joke...as did Jim, I'm sure. Besides, why would anyone want to target Jim for ridicule...he's too nice a guy. Also, he is such a wealth of knowledge we couldn't afford to loose him.

Well, I'm glad someone did. For a moment there, I thought I was going to be Imusized.

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...Don't tell that to Jim Travagia. He's the rich republican who does most of the crapping on the rest of us.

Complete and utter garbage. Regardless of Jim's political leanings, he is one of the nicest and most respected members of this forum. It's remarks like that which give liberals a bad name.

As a person with a decidedly liberal bent, I offer Jim an apology and hope that Alex can see the error of his ways and also apologize to Jim.

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I thought I was the only nut job on here!! lol Those people are hypocrites!
Here's an idea that will get someone going: Global warming is a fraud! Ok, this is not townhall.com
I'll try to stick to all things audio.

Well said Mr. Poor (or is Poor your first name?). The less politics the better.

Now if Ms. Crow had said something related to audio, like that tube equipment gives off too much heat and thus is contributing to global warming then by all means she would have been fair game and we all could have taken great pleasure in a massive communal lambasting of her and eco-terrorist remarks.

...and Jazzfan saves the day with wit and wisdom

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...and Jazzfan saves the day with wit and wisdom

Thanks Erik, I'm flattered.

Now about those tube amps...(and of course class A solid state amps are not completely off the hook here as well )

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Now about those tube amps...(and of course class A solid state amps are not completely off the hook here as well )

Who can fault a tube or class A amp? My class A is ecologically friendly...it is a multi-purpose device used for entertainment, cooking and heating my home.

What more could Sheryl want from a guy...other than buying her cd's (which will never happen). "All I want to do is have some fun..."

Am I the only person who remembers that Volkswagon once sold a diesel Rabbit that would routinely get 55 mpg in the city and over 60 mpg at a 60 mph cruise? Course it only weighed about 2200 lbs, didn't have air, and only put out about 60 horsepower so planning was required when merging on a freeway. BTW, the original Beetle only weighed between 1400 and 1600 LBS (the early ones were lighter). Take a look a the what the new Beetle weighs and you'll end up scratching your head.

Point is, we have gotten awfully soft in the past 20 or so years. We now want all the bells and whistles and a vehicle that is in reality an Urban Tank. BTW, I ride a motorcycle in the summer (55 mpg) and absolutely LOATH SUV's. Rather that asking me to give up TP, I would much rather that Sheryl Crow would get a bit shrill about all the fuel that is wasted by those 6000 lbs. Urban Tanks. After all, she is very good at shrill and getting the average driver into a reasonably sized auto would go a long way towards reducing our carbon consumption and emissions.

I think it's pretty hard, Scooter, to believe that any significant move toward higher mileage vehicles will take place in this country until gas prices force the car buying public in that direction. Those who talk the loudest and most frequently about "saving the planet" are mostly talk not action. Like Gore and Crowe, they want to pursuade others to make personal sacrifices they're unwilling to make themselves. Where cars are concerned, Americans buy with their hearts, not their brains. We want the car we think is cool. A few of us depart from the mainstream, but too few to make any difference, so fads like the SUV run rampant.

Personally, I'm not at all convinced that the "science is settled" regarding the relationship between human activities and global warming. Conditions of the Sun itself and of the planet may be such dominant factors in the current climate trends that no matter how many gallons of gas we burn or how many squares of toilet paper we use the cycle will continue. I'm old enough to have a clear memory of the scare headlines of a few years ago when the crisis du jour was global cooling.

That notwithstanding, in fifty years of car buying I've never owned a vehicle that got less than 25 miles to the gallon city and country. Yes and that includes a few motorcycles that, as you say, deliver more like 50 mpg. Our current cars are as good as the Beetles I've owned - a 1991 Honda Prelude and a 2004 Saab Convertible. Big, low mileage cars are no fun for me. But if anyone else wants one, that's none of my affair.

Did you know that the Toyota Prius Hybrid actually has a larger carbon footprint than a Hummer? It's true.

When you consider how those things are actually made and add up the numbers, it takes something like 8 years for them to begin to equal each other...including the difference in fuel mileage.

The batteries for the Prius are made from Nickel, which is strip mined in Canada and has devestated the area surrounding the mine for miles. The Nickel is then shipped to Japan for refining, then to Europe for conversion into batteries and then back to the Americas for placement in the automobile factory. Toyota uses something like 2000 tons of Nickel a year through this process.

Anyway, I can't remember all the data as it was broken down, but it was revelatory in demonstrating that it may make you feel good to drive a hybrid, but you're not helping reduce pollutants...you're increasing them.

Another example, using Sheryl herself. She worries about all the little people doing their part with the TP. I watched one of those "pimp my ride" kind of shows when she was having Lance's classic car restored as a Birthday present for him. Yup, she had them put in the big block motor, several gallons of petroleum based paint were applied because it is far superior to the water based paints (and a whole lot more expensive) all the latest tricked-out stuff like fat tires and perfomance enhancing (think gas guzzling) engine modifications.

In short, she advocates the things we should all be giving proper consideration while completely ignoring these things when it comes to herself.

Environmentalism has become religion for many on the left. There is little room for science and constructive debate when it reaches this point. This stuff isn't nearly as well grounded in science as a lot of people have been conditioned to think it is. But, boy, it sure does strike an emotional chord that provides the perfect platform for manipulating those inclined to "feel" rather than "think."

So long as we are ranting, I thought I'd rant a bit myself.

Hitting the nail on the head! I agree.

However, I've had some pleasure with those gas guzzling high performance vehicles, both on and off the race track.

Mike

I drive a Porsche 944. It has 4-cylinder that puts out 150 horsepower. However, the car weighs well under 3000 pounds. It is a great performance car. It's not the fastest car on the road, but it's fast enough for me, handles like a dream, and I routinely do better than 30 mpg on the highway. Actually, I've seen as high as 40, and I'm a left lane guy. I often ask myself: Would anyone today buy a 4-cylinder Porsche? I doubt it. The fact is, the technology is there to make efficient cars. Clearly, it was around in the early eighties when my car was built. The problem is building and selling those vehicles to enthusiastic consumers.

I'm a big fan of diesel technology, myself. We'll see a lot more diesels over here in the next few years, since low-sulfur diesel, like they have in Europe, is becoming mandated. By 2011, 100% of diesel fuel sold in the United States will have to be low-sulfur. Overseas, where $4-6/gallon is common, I believe something like half of all passenger vehicles are diesels. Many (or most) of the European cars we enjoy are available as diesel models. How high will gas prices have to go before Americans buy with their pocketbooks? And will the diesels fly over here? I don't know, but I hope the paradigm shifts soon.

With all due respects, I think it time that we pointed out that on the right there is also very little, if any, room fo actual science on the right, and the right is guilty of a whole lot of stupidity and downright deceit whose effects we are seeing today.

How many people on the right are out there trying to deny the very existance of global warming, or like Jonah Goldberg saying don't worry technology will bail us out of it. How many Bush appointees to high scientific position have been chosen solely for their politcal bias rather than their scientific credentials? It is for reason that the current administration is widely regarded as consistently distorting science in order to fit its ideological goals.

How many decades have conservatives consistently blocked improving CAFE standards, and fought to make the 6,000 pound behemoth the standard, thus making the problems worse than we have been.

How many social conservatives are out there fighting the economy by trying to make birth control difficult or impossible, particularly in the poorest countries? With the official assistance of the Bush Administration?

Has everyone forgotten the comments of Reagan's Secretary of the Interior James Watt on deforestation: "Jesus will return when the last tree is cut down." I think that exceeds Ms. Crows idiocy by at least a couple exponents.

And don't get me started our our foreign policy . . .

Of course, Ms. Crow's comments on toilet paper were ludicrous. PETA is nuts. Hollywood stars aren't the ideal spokesman for the little people, but then our President has no clue whatsoever how most Americans actually live. In fact, we who argue the merits of $10,000 dollar amplifiers live very different lives from the waitress who fills our coffee at Denny's. Tax cuts don't do much for people who don't make a lot of income.

But then you have Limbaugh, Coulter and Hannity, and their stupidity, lies and dowright venality is on subjects far more significant the a well-scrubbed gluteous.

The right has no business going 'there goes the left again', not when your own excesses are so large, and ultimately damaging.

The problem, as I see it, is not a problem of competing ideas. Ideas are wonderful things. I like ideas. No, the problem is in forgeting or ignoring that we have a system in place for competing ideas. Good ideas can persuade reasonable poeple. Bad ideas can be revealed as bad ideas if subjected to scrutiny. The bigger the idea, the more important the scrutiny becomes.

The problem (I already said that, didn't I) is that it's foolish to dilute the power of an idea by refusing to allow it the proper respect of subjecting it to well reasoned and thoughtful debate. We have lost our willingess, if not our capacity to debate ideas. We've simply become cheerleaders for the team we have chosen. Man, that blows.

Our system of government was not designed to be two competing parties offering an either/or choice. George Washington said it best in his Farewell Speech. Do read paragraphs 20-25. link

We aren't going to change any minds here, but I sure do miss statesmanship in our political leaders and discourse that doesn't immediately degenerate into character attacks as opposed to attacking and challenging an idea. I don't think people can tell the difference anymore. That's not indicative of a people capable of debating the merits of an idea.

We are so screwed. Well, posterity is, anyway.

Since you labelled your "I hate George Bush and the horse he rode in on" rant as a response to me, let me make some things clear:

1- I am a Conservative. George Bush is not.

2- To suggest that Crow and Gore are elitist hypocrites is not to suggest they're unique by any means.

3- Since your "response" addresses no point I have made, there is no basis I can find for discussion of issues between us. Nice example, though, of the problem Monty points to.

Good Luck to you in your pursuits, whatever they may be,

To paraphrase Clay's remarks:

I'm a liberal and Sheryl Crow and Al Gore are not.

As I stated earlier what does politics have to do with (high end) audio? Nothing really unless one is bemoaning the fact that one can not afford a new piece of equipment due to the insane tax rates which are causes by all the thieves and liars who serve as our government. Notice I did not label them "democrats and republicans" since the one thing I've noticed regarding taxes is that my taxes are always going up no matter who is charge. Therefore I just labeled them all "thieves and liars", which is exactly what they are.

As for saving oil how come so few people here in America address the single must effective way to substantially reduce oil and gas consumption:

The introduction of quality mass transit throughout the United States.

I take mass transit to work every workday and just by that action alone I such be entitled to drive the biggest and most fuel inefficient vehicle I can afford on the days when I do actually drive.

Now will Ms. Crow please come and show me just how to get by with less toilet paper because I could really use a first hand lesson on exactly how it's done.

Buy class D. Tube amps are detrimental to the environment.