Completed another marathon critical listening session last week (about 3.5 hours) with the Revel Performa3 F206 and the PSB Imagine T2. An advantage, this time around, was being able to hear these on a MAC amp identical to mine and a CD player not too dissimilar to mine. The sound room was different, of course, but, acoustically speaking, not wildly so. Speaker cables used were/are a bit more expensive than my AudioQuest. Both these speakers were/are outstanding representatives of this price point and very similar in performance. However, I found the PSB low bass response to be a bit looser than the Revel and the Revel's soundstage and imaging a little better than the PSB. On all but 1 track of heavy low bass material, the Revel were tighter, faster and more accurate, in my opinion, despite what the frequency response specifications for these 2 indicate. Another testament to how speaker specifications tell you almost nothing. One caveat to this, however, was that neither of these speakers were on spikes in a room with wall-to-wall carpeting. I'm assuming the PSB would have benefitted from spikes but, to my ears, it sounded like the Revel didn't even need them. They weren't boommie in the slightest. I was amazed! I'm assuming the PSB would be less boommie on spikes & tighter. The other thing I noticed, straight away, was the Revel's excellent sound dispersal off-axis, even radically off-axis. The PSB were certainly no slouch in this regard but the Revel were surprisingly good. Everything else from upper bass through midrange to high frequencies was, as far as my ears could discern, outstanding for both speakers. I'm tempted to believe the Revel were maybe just a half a hair crisper & cleaner but that's probably a bias because they impressed me just a tad more than the PSB under the circumstances both of them were auditioned in.

As a result of this latest escapade, my present short list is both of these speakers. Later this week, I'll be auditioning the GoldenEar Triton Two + and the Martin Logan Motion 60 XTi. I'm expecting this will be my last audition before my ears make a final decision. Frankly, I'm hoping the GoldenEar are everything the reviewers say they are because they would be a better fit for my listening room because they are more slender. If they don't seal the deal, however, I will ask to audition the PSB and Revel again but, this time, with both of them on spikes.

So, any pearls of wisdom out there in the great audiophile ether? Anyone care to make book on what I'll post next week because, God willin' & the crick don't rise, I'll certainly let anyone who cares know what my ears decided.

Thought I'd bring this up to date for anyone who's interested.

Earlier this week, a friend and I completed another round of serious seat-time with the Martin Logan Motion XTi and the GoldenEar Triton Two+. This time around, the ML sounded amazingly better than the first time I auditioned it. That first time was with a 60 watt NAD integrated that I think might have been a Class D design but I'm not at all sure about that. This time, I auditioned the ML with a 125 or 150 watt Class A/B design Simaudio Moon integrated. The differences were as stark as night and day! Much better with the Moon! The GE was not what I was hoping it would be; not at all what all the reviewers have been saying about it. However, the GE and the ML were not broken in. Reportedly, the GE had maybe 30 hours of play time on it and the ML around 45. I can't recall what the recommended break-in times are for either of these speakers but it seemed to me they both needed more maturing. Also, the sound room we were in left a lot to be desired. So, I don't consider this a fair audition for either speaker. As such, I'm in the process of trying to arrange another one with a different shop who, hopefully, will have demos that are broken-in and a better sound room(s).

Bierfeldt, good to hear from you! Hope you and your loved ones are doing well!

I tried, unsuccessfully, to arrange another audition of the GoldenEar Triton Two+. After all this time and effort, this felt like being just a hundred feet shy of summitting Everest! The shop I was communicating with simply failed to respond to my last few contacts and I ultimately grew weary of chasing them around. Irritating, to say the least! I certainly would have loved auditioning those GoldenEar under proper conditions, if only to complete my mission. Unfortunately, this was the only shop left within reasonable driving distance. So, I made a decision based upon what I'd heard to date because of the time and effort invested (i.e. several years of recent focused reading & research; approximately 18.5 hours of serious critical listening seat-time with, at least, 16 different pairs of speakers). Ultimately, what it all came down to is what it always comes down to (i.e. what sounded best).

The Revel Performa3 F206 were simply the best I'd heard in my budget range and then some. Truly impressive! They did, indeed, elicit that WOW moment! I extrapolated, as best I could, what a broken-in pair of GoldenEar Triton Two+ might have sounded like in my listening room, did more reading & research, spoke with audiophile friends and had on-going communication with the sales person where I auditioned the Revel and PSB. In a nutshell, I'm confident the Revel was/is the best choice because of their design (i.e. front-firing ports; high frequency driver design; etc.) and my listening room's acoustic properties. Even with sufficient break-in time, I surmised the GE's would likely be an inappropriate fit because of their design (i.e. passive radiators; AMT tweeters; my listening room's right channel placement limitations and the wall directly behind the listening position).

So, that is how this cookie crumbled. The new babies are on order and I pick them up at the end of next month. I can report in again after they are properly broken-in, if anyone is interested.

David, your posts regarding your love of your Magnepan LRS are legendary. I am sincerely happy you love your Maggies and I truly, truly mean that. Every audiophile should be happy with the equipment they ultimately choose and love the sound of the music their cherished components can deliver. I understand, completely, that it is virtually impossible to know what speakers are really going to sound like in your home, your listening room, until you get them there and set them up properly with your components. For those of us who prefer live demonstration in various audio shops prior to making a purchase, we simply have to do our due diligence with regard to reading & researching, be cognizant of all the variables you allude to while auditioning, muster all the audiophile skills we've acquired over the years and make the best informed decision we possibly can. By no means would I consider this a "futile exercise". I would have loved to audition your Maggies or, for that matter, more expensive ribbon and electrostatic speakers because of how highly you recommend them and, also, how generally well reviewed some of them are (e.g. Herb Reichert 7-18-19 Stereophile). However, there are 2 major reasons I did not audition ribbon or electrostatic speakers in my upgrade quest. The most important one is that they are too wide for my room placement limitations and have other room set-up issues that would make them inappropriate for my listening room. Secondly, and this is a definite bias of mine, my ears have never preferred the performance of any electrostatic or ribbon speakers I've heard over the years, including some ultra-expensive ones in very exclusive high-end shops where they were properly set-up for auditions. As a fellow audiophile, I trust you know that, probably more than any other audio component, speakers are a very personal, subjective choice. Some ears prefer certain audio signatures that others don't. BTW: I wouldn't describe GoldenEar Tritons as "dynamic drivers in a wooden box". This is your bias showing.

Dorsia777, don't know if this will inform your search but, if you're interested, check out the whole thread by reading "Time to Upgrade Speakers" in the forum. That might provide more context for your quest. Kal Rubinson turned out to be right. I ended up liking the Revel best. God bless him!

With regard to the Martin Logan Motion 60XTi and the GoldenEar Triton 2+, if I recall correctly, the integrated amplifier used in that audition was a Simaudio Moon Neo IX, a truly outstanding integrated! I went to this audition hoping & wanting the GE to thrill me and end up being my top choice because of their size dimensions which would have been, I thought, comparatively better for my particular listening room placement issues. So, I went there with a significant pre-existing bias for the GE, giving them a considerable edge. It's unfortunate they were not fully broken-in and that I couldn't find another shop close enough to hear a pair that were. That day, the ML impressed me more than the GE. So, as in most critical listening sessions that aren't in your own home, I was forced to extrapolate as best I could using all the audiophile skills I think I've gathered over the years. Ultimately, I just couldn't imagine either one of these, fully broken-in, possibly performing any better in my living room than the Revel Performa3 F206. Different? Of course! As good? Definite maybe! Better? Just didn't think so.

I'll mention this for what it's worth. Some reviews I've read about speakers with AMT tweeters suggest having a seated or listening position with a healthy amount of space behind the listener is advisable (e.g. at least 6 feet or more). That's probably the case with most high-end speakers, in general, but probably more critical for AMT designs. So, you might want to factor this into your scheduled auditions. I first heard the ML in a sound room with approximately 6 feet, or so, behind the listening position. Unfortunately, that was the audition that used what I was told was a 60 watt NAD integrated that, in my opinion, was far too anemic for them. The second audition of these was with that outstanding Simaudio Moon integrated that was WAY better, especially considering these ML, I was told, had less than 50 hours playtime on them. That sound room (not a good one, by the way) had, at least, 10 to 12 feet behind the listening position.

If you're after more bass extension, you might want to audition the Revel Performa3 F208. I listened to them the same day as the F206 but they are too big for my listening room. They have larger woofers than the F206 and will reach down deeper. Most Revel shops should, I would think, have both models on hand. So, it should be easy to arrange for an A/B shoutout. Depending upon how much dough you want to spend, you might also want to have a listen to speakers higher up the Revel line, as well.

In closing, I'll also offer this for what it's worth. For more than any other component, speaker audio performance specifications are not very helpful. I'm not suggesting ignoring them completely but, by all means, consider them with 2 huge grains of salt! In the same vein, speakers are also a very personal, subjective choice. So, try to set up auditions with components as similar to yours, as possible, in sound rooms & conditions as similar to yours, as possible, and let your ears tell you what sounds best.

Happy Hunting! The quest can often times be almost as enjoyable as the arrival! Good Luck!

I never imagined this thread and the original "Time to Upgrade Speakers" would generate this much interest. As such, I thought I'd add this in case it might be helpful to someone.

Ultimately, I wasn't able to get the Revel Performa3 F206 in the high gloss piano black finish for a whole host of reasons that I won't bore you with here. Chalk it up to Covid-19. Got them in high gloss walnut and don't regret it for a second! The construction is excellent and the finish is absolutely gorgeous; as good as fine furniture. I'm now approaching 60 hours play on them. The only time I ever had thoughts of possibly taking them back was during the early stages of the break-in process. During the first 10 hours, they sounded a bit constrained throughout the entire frequency ranges. High end was mildly tinny, bass was no deeper than my 19 year old Paradigm and midrange no better, either. From 10 to 20 hours they noticeably started to open up. Bass improved markedly. High frequencies became less tinny and mid-range remained about the same as my old Paradigm. At 30 hours is when the magic really started to happen and doubts about the possibility of returning them vanished! Bass had much improved (i.e. deeper; tighter; faster; more accurate), seemed markedly better than their specs would suggest and was better than what I'd heard at the shop. Obviously, my living room acoustics have a lot to do with this. The tinny sound in high frequencies disappeared but a very tiny bit of shrillness remained. Midrange was much sweeter, richer and more musical than my old Paradigm. I was and continue to double-check all of this with my wife every time I play them. She uses other adjectives but hears the same things. Now, just shy of the 60 hour mark, the improvements throughout the audio spectrum continue, including high end. Every scintilla of shrillness is gone. Highs are sweet and accurate; not fatiguing in the slightest. Improvements, comparatively speaking, are a bit more subtle now but noticeable, nonetheless. The sales person and Revel, both, informed me this would be the case until they reach approximately 100 hours. One reviewer indicated it took the pair he reviewed approximately 120 hours to reach full maturation, so to speak. Every time I play mine, it's difficult for me to imagine these improvements will continue but, so far, I (and my wife) do hear it. The continued, gradual improvements have been in detail, soundstage, imaging, bass and, literally, the entire audio spectrum. If this continues, I will end up with a smile on my face an undertaker won't be able to remove. The only drawback has been that these speakers expose poorly engineered, mixed & mastered recordings; not dramatically so, but you will hear it and slowly start paying more attention to the liner notes of your recordings. This is what great speakers should do. So, be prepared to replace those recordings, if possible, with better ones.

Thought I'd add this in case anyone might be interested.

I'm now at the 90 hour mark with my Revel Performa3 F206. The gradual, continued improvements in audio performance during this break-in period continue to surprise and impress. The improvements are more subtle or nuanced now but noticeable nonetheless, even when not in critical listening mode. I'm certain some of these improvements are attributable to a recent change I made with my Marantz CD6005. I engaged its "Audio EX 2 Mode". Should have done this years ago! My next experiment in this regard will be to connect it to the MAC via coax. MAC Labs tells me this will result in even further audio performance improvements because of the MAC's DAC. Hard to believe but I will certainly try it.

It's difficult for me to imagine another 10 or 20 hours break-in will result in continued audio improvements in these Revel. At this point, that would be just extra icing on the cake.

I'm rooting for ya, Swampy! I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya!

Played some of my freshly cleaned vinyl yesterday for a few hours (i.e. Ace; Anita Baker; Pat Benatar). With my turntable, the sound was even better than my Marantz CD in Audio EX 2 Mode! Then again, this is par for the course with vinyl, as long as you have a good TT & cart.

Any chance you could put a deposit down on those F206 demos and have the seller hold them for you for a while? If you've read this and the previous thread about my quest for new speakers, you know I did some serious research and seat time with a lot of contenders! These F206 were the best I heard under $5,000.00 a pair, new. As I think I mentioned along the way, here in the Stereophile forum and also in the Soundstage HIFI feedback with Doug Schneider, I would love to have heard broken-in GoldenEar Triton 2+ and Martin Logan Motion 60Xti in a properly set-up audition. In retrospect, they were the only ones my ears thought came close but I still don't think they would have bested or even equaled the Revel.

Good Luck!

P.S. Kal, Doug, Tom, thanks again for your guidance! Much appreciated.

WTG, DORSIA! Have you got your new babies home, yet? If so, time to crack open that special single malt, Chateauneuf-du-Pape or whatever your favorite indulgence is, kick back, relax and treat your ears to your favorite music as you dial and break those babies in!

Curious... did you audition your babies against the Revel F206 or F208? If so, did you do that with an Arcam AVR like yours and what made your ears decide on the Sonus Faber? I'm always curious in that kind of stuff. I had a chance to audition a pair of Sonus Faber last summer but, after around 4 hours of seat-time in the shop I was in, never got around to it. God Bless salespeople like that!

Congrats! Make sure your new babies get the necessary break-in time, whatever that is. My babies had me worried, at first, but after about 30 hours, all second thoughts evaporated. I'm still just shy of 100 hours and, unbelievably, they are still maturing. Revel and the reviewers say anywhere between 100 and 120 hours about does it for the F206. Don't know what the word is for your Sonetto but I wouldn't be surprised if it's in the same ballpark.

I'm not surprised by your critical listening experience with the Sonetto. Four ohm nominal load designs crave current; not to be confused by watts. When I was in the hunt, I auditioned a pair of Aerial Acoustics 6T that I immediately fell in love with and almost pulled out the credit card on the spot. However, I heard them with a McIntosh MC275 and I'm pretty sure what was a McIntosh C22. Luckily, I curbed my enthusiasm long enough to ask the sales person to hook them up with an amp just like mine that they had taken in, in trade. While those Aerial still sounded fantastic because of their efficiency, it was immediately clear they were much happier with that big MAC tube amp & pre-amp set-up because of the juice they could feed them. I still thought about buying them anyway because they were that good. However, I knew if I did I'd always be thinking "what if" and, sooner or later, I'd be shelling out some more serious green to replace my amp. It's an addiction but a wonderful one! I'm sure you understand! Enjoy!

Just to reiterate what I discovered (or began to understand more clearly, anyway) through my personal experience auditioning the Aerial Acoustics 6T. Generally, 4 ohm nominal load design speakers, even very efficient ones or, for that matter, anything less than 8 ohm nominal designs, tend to crave higher current or sound better with amps that have very good power supplies. Even though my MAC can put out 130 watts into 8 ohms it does not double that into 4 ohms. My understanding is that's why those Aerial Acoustics 6T sounded so much better with that big MAC stack, which delivers a rated 75 watts but probably has a much better power supply. I auditioned a pair of Martin Logan Motion 60Xti, a 6 ohm nominal design speaker, with a 60 watt into 8 ohm NAD integrated amp that I think may have been a Class D design and those ML sounded very, very nice. However, when I auditioned those same speakers with a Simaudio Moon 340 IX (100 watts into 8 ohms & 200 into 4 ohms - very conservative rating, I think), they sounded just fantastic; as nice if not nicer than a pair of GoldenEar Triton 2+ that I A/B'd them with in the same shop, on the same day, with the same amp. I don't think this was a function of the extra watts but, rather, the Simaudio's outstanding oversized power supply. This experience had me wondering what those Aerial Acoustics 6T would have sounded like with that Simaudio. I don't understand the electronic engineering involved for why this is so but my ears sure get it. As such, with your new babies, if you ever get the itch to upgrade your amp (tubes; SS; separates; integrated; whatever) I would encourage you to pay more attention to an amp's power supply, rather than just rated output. My understanding is that a general rule of thumb for amps that have good power supplies are those that double their rated output from 8 ohms to 4 ohms. Sorry to bore you with the extra reading if you already know this stuff but this was a revelation to me after all these years. Wish someone had explained this to me years ago! Would have saved me a lot of time in auditions!

Judging from reviews I've read, the manufacturers you've mentioned in your previous post certainly make fine quality products. Other than a few MACs, I haven't heard anything else made by the other manufacturers you've mentioned and I tend not to recommend things I haven't heard myself or had personal experience with. As such, I can say I've never heard any MAC amps that failed to impress. Additionally, the Simaudio I heard was nothing short of outstanding! I would love to hear some of their other amps. Krell are other amps I've heard over the years that I would keep in mind, as well. As with anything related to this hobby or addiction, when the time comes, let your ears steer you in the right direction. Enjoy the new babies!

Dave, the Revel Performa3 F206 and McIntosh MA5200, as far as I'm concerned, is a marriage made in heaven! They actually sound better under my roof than they did at the shop I auditioned them at, which had a very good sound room. I'm blessed with relatively good acoustics.

If you've read this entire thread and the previous one that started all of this, you'll see that I spent a considerable amount of time researching and listening to a large number of speakers in my upgrade quest. The F206 were simply the best pairing I demoed for my particular circumstances (i.e. dimensions & acoustics of my sound or living room; speaker placement constraints; amp/speaker matching; budget; etc.). Proper matching is very important (i.e. your components; sound room considerations; etc.). There are a lot of great speakers out there. My advice is to do a lot of reading & research (i.e. professional reviews by trusted & respected reviewers) and schedule as many critical listening sessions as you can stand, under controlled circumstances (i.e. conditions as similar to yours at home, as possible). With regard to specifications, especially speaker specifications, other than the nominal load characteristics which you should pay attention to with regard to proper amp/speaker matching, I would take most, if not all, of the other specs with 2 large grains of salt. By all means, be cognizant of them but let your ears decide! I've heard the B&W 702 with proper amplification and liked them very much. As a matter of fact, they surprised me because I had never been much fond of the B&W sound signature in the past. As Bluesdog indicated, my impression of them and other British speakers in the past had always been: "where's the bass?". This last time, however, the 702 made me do a double take! I thought bass response and reach were pretty good, tight and accurate. If you like those, you might want to spend some time listening to Monitor Audio Silver 300 and 500. I've never heard the Sonetto III but, like Bluesdog, I did spend about a hour's time with the Olympica Nova III and thought they were fantastic! However, they were powered by a McIntosh MA8900 at the time. That's some serious amp muscle! They were also placed far out into the room and separated by around 8', maybe more. Again, amp pairing, speaker placement considerations, etc. are vary important. You have to evaluate what your equipment and room at home can accommodate and have the speakers you demo placed that way. Bring a tape measure and pay no or little attention to sales people on this. They just want to sell you stuff. There's no problem with that. After all, they have to make a living. However, the best of them and the best of shops will genuinely work with you on all of the component matching and room placement issues involved and try to sell you something you won't be disappointed with. Also very important, the best shops will offer, at least, a 30 day money back policy if you are disappointed with your purchase, some without a re-stocking or return fee or anything like that. This is important because new speakers and new equipment, in general, will likely benefit from a certain amount of break-in or burn-in time. Make sure you have that safety valve. My Revel had me wondering for the first 20 or 30 hours, or so. However, after that, it was quite clear to me they were staying put. I would say they took approximately 75 to 90 hours to be all they can be with my components, in my room.

Best of luck!

Not sure I can help on this one, other than by sharing similar experiences. I've heard speakers powered by 100 watts of solid state Class A/B amplification, followed by half that power of tube power amplification and often liked the tube sound better with some speakers. I don't know enough about electronics to be helpful on this sort of stuff. However, I think it all has to do with the power supply amps have, the amount of current they can supply to various speakers, the speakers' nominal load characteristics & sensitivity and the amount of Class A amplification delivered before a Class A/B amp switches to Class B. Like I said, I really don't understand this electronic stuff. Regardless, the important thing is to listen to speakers you're interested in with your amp, if possible, or an amp that is as similar to yours, as possible. It's all about proper pairing. Otherwise, you end up comparing apples to oranges, if you know what I mean.