bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am
PS Audio's from Coal to Coltrane
Editor
Editor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: Sep 1 2005 - 8:56am


Quote:
I just watched the PS Audio's "From Coal to Coltrane" DVD and it got me wondering: Why are Stereophile editors on a manufacturer's promotional DVD?

They weren't paid for their contributions to the PS Audio DVD, but that doesn't affect the core issue. Neither of the writers will be reviewing PS Audio components in future, which I believe eliminates any appearance of conflict of interest.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

CECE
CECE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 17 2005 - 8:16am

Besides that, it was a horrible DVD. Hyped in ads that it actually has meaningful information. total nonsense. Showing Hoover Dam, lighting bolts....total fluff and useless. And yeah, I'm sure he loves his old Victrola...yeah riiiiiight. Did he have to pay license fee to use the RCA dog in a commerical production? If not, why not. It is used to give some sembelance of a relation to what RCA did in history to what PS marketing which all they are does? Ps Audio shouldn't be using a trademrk from a company that actually was relevant in CE over time. PS Audio is irrelavant. The DVD offeres no science, no electrical facts, science..useless. A more technical production with real facts and specs woulda' actually been useful. I tossed it in the trash afeter viewing it. Horrible. The McIntosh book was cool. Get it, great old pictures, historical images, pricey, but well done. Quality publication. PS Audio DVD big ZERO.

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am

I agree with you that the DVD offered very little useful info. Alas, it was free and the hype not withstanding, I took it for what it was: a promotional video. If you adjust your expectations, then you view it toss it and forget it.

My gripe has to do with reviewers being featured on a promotional video. There goes any pretense to neutrality and objectivity. The reviewers and the manufacturers are clearly in bed together and this is just one of the most obvious examples.

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am


Quote:

Quote:
I just watched the PS Audio's "From Coal to Coltrane" DVD and it got me wondering: Why are Stereophile editors on a manufacturer's promotional DVD?

They weren't paid for their contributions to the PS Audio DVD, but that doesn't affect the core issue. Neither of the writers will be reviewing PS Audio components in future, which I believe eliminates any appearance of conflict of interest.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

John,

I would like to thank you for that. This is definitely a step in the right direction. May I suggest taking this even a step further and making it a policy prohibiting all your reviewers from appearing in promotional literature and events, endorsing products in marketing venues or interviews?

Thanks again.

PS. I replied to DUP's post before I noticed your reply.

Editor
Editor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: Sep 1 2005 - 8:56am


Quote:
May I suggest taking this even a step further and making it a policy prohibiting all your reviewers from appearing in promotional literature and events, endorsing products in marketing venues or interviews?

As the writers involved are contractors rather than employees, I am not sure if that is justifiable. However, neither of them endorses or discusses PS Audio products in in the PS Audio DVD, which I believe keeps the activity on the right side of the ethical divide.

And some time in the future, Paul McGowan is going to understand that by benefiting short-term from using the franchise in Wes's and Mikey's reputations on his DVD, he long-term loses the benefit of two of Stereophile's most influential reviewers being able to write about his products again in the magazine. That is quite a price to pay, IMO.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am

John,

I didn't realize the reviewers were contractors, rather than employees. That certainly makes things a bit more difficult. Unless they make megabucks out of Stereophile's contracts, there's limited pull on their extracurricular activities.

Thanks for addressing this issue.

CECE
CECE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 17 2005 - 8:16am

http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/222/

CECE
CECE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 17 2005 - 8:16am

So as outside contractors they are free to endorse anyhting or show up at any companies shows etc? What is in their contract with Stereophile that limits this, or controls it? So at MF's dead angle website, he is free to endorse or advertise anyone, since he be independant. hmm, if we do enough searching for all kinds of conflicts and more iffy writings about stuff. Does MF "really" own that $100K spinning platter with a motor at one end, or just using creative writing to make us beleive he actually was so delusional that he would hear $100K TT be better playing $20 vintl? He said in one writing, he took a mortgage to buy a TT? I think he is embellishing this all too much. Is he paid by any companies he reviews to be their spokesman, without knowledge of Stereophile, since he ain't your employee, he can be doing anything he wants? What about some of teh other "contributors". Since he seeks advertising to support his website, how can he do reviews without self interest? What's the difference between "freelance" writer and "contributing" editors? I ain't knowledgeable of teh publising lingo/rules. But he uses Stereophile as his introduction when ever you see his name in print. so he uses Stereophile to promote himself? Hmmm, that also seems to be in conflict? Since he sells his own products on reviews at that slanted angle website. Still wanna see some hearing tests from Mf and AD and others, so we know what reference they are when they hear things they claim they do. Their prose is not a reference, it's creative writing, a hearing test result would let us know what they really hear, or not, or imagine!!! Measuremtns matter, measurments are teh only truth detector, that is impartial. Subjective reviews are mere opinions, that are changed by what the thing looks like, or who made it. http://www.psaudio.com/products/noiseharvester.asp MEASUREMENTS first, then listen.

CECE
CECE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 17 2005 - 8:16am

this guy is funny, i love how he shows high tension power lines, which have NOTHING to do with what is at your local stuff, they are so far removed from your local pole 240/125 system....Let's see some more pictures of Hoover dam, and lighting bolts...yup, this LED in a plastic box is gonna "sound" better. Let's get a review of this junk, open it up let's see how he turns noise to light!!! Friggin magician!!! http://www.psaudio.com/downloads/harvester.mov

CECE
CECE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 17 2005 - 8:16am

PS says to pre filter AC going into a filter...it's like washing teh dishes before you put them in a dishwasher. I'll stick to my Frumns, they work, they don't need a filter in front of em, since they are the filter (DUH). But of course furnams don't have names like PS uses. Just a UL sticker etc. Does PS AC line stuff have UL ETL or any lab results that could qualify what it does? UL does have filter standards, which is like minimum for some kind of results...Is is Ps or BS? How come he didn't let us HEAR how the noise harvester removed the noise from that dimmer, he jumped right to the scope....me thinks a plastic box with a magic LED is worth how much? $80? Hmmmm, I had some cheap varistor based spike outlets where like $3. from MCM, and ya know it took out a noise spike i would get from a light that would F up my Cassablanca fan control...$3 plastic box...basically a varistor in it....didn't change it to lite though, just shunted the spike to ground. $3 made in China, it even had a UL sticker on it, (mighta' been a FAKE UL sticker, but so far it works and ain't gone up in smoke....

bobedaone
bobedaone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: Feb 1 2007 - 12:27am

A Furman engineer demonstrated the effects of clean power at my dealer recently and I was very impressed. Of course, he used the IT Reference 20i.

CECE
CECE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 17 2005 - 8:16am

That's the pricey one, But using balanced power in a home setup can be trouble!!! Beware....studio enviorment is a commercial setup usally, except for home studios, running a system 60V each leg to ground while other stuff is 120V-nuetral...you can setup some weird shit in your house, could be dangerous. Balanced power systems MUST be labeled properly, and setup right, they ain't meant for residentail use, no matter what some audio nonsense is said..check into the NEC Furman makes some great stuff i use 8 units from them...it not's some magic, just good electrical design, i see Furman stuff at more live events than any other brands for AC stuff. They just now with buying Panamax, began a line of consumer looking stuff fro home theatre, I have all teh rack mount stuff, from their commercial line of stuff...It's even UL listed, unlike hmm so many other "audio" brands....

bobedaone
bobedaone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: Feb 1 2007 - 12:27am

I want to invest in a PST-8D at some point, probably after I get a turntable. No beefy power cords for me, though.

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am

I'm a bit of a loss as to the why we would need power conditioning. If I understand things correctly, a hifi component takes the AC from the wall, passes it through transformers and rectifiers and puts out DC for its internal electronics to use. If this is the case and AC gets rectified and put out into low voltage DC, why would a power conditioner be necessary? The only reason that I can possibly think of would be if the internal transformer of a component was bad.

Am I missing something?

bobedaone
bobedaone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: Feb 1 2007 - 12:27am

Perhaps a clean sine wave allows the internals to do their jobs more effectively. I don't understand it, really, although I suppose the information is around if I ever care to research it myself. At any rate, sonic improvements can be reaped, although they're small relative to component upgrades, making conditioning something I find difficult to justify at my level. I would consider a power bar-style piece, mainly because I want advanced, non-sacrificial surge protection, anyway. Line filtering is a welcome benefit, but not a major purchase consideration for me. My top priority is protecting my equipment.

CECE
CECE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 17 2005 - 8:16am

Tehre is a lot of hyped nonsense in selling power conditioning to audiophiles. I mostly have it for distribution and surge/spike protection. And the Furmans I use allow me to monitor line voltage and current. And maybe just maybe PF correction maybe from the large 4 transformers in the amps. Mostly gave me a bunch of needed AC outlets. Some of those multi thousand dollar units from companies that have zero business in power quality are questionable. Furman has been doing power distribution products and spike surge etc for like 30 years. 99% of live events are using some Furman for Ac distribution etc. Never see any Shubattatatatayata Hydra Snake BS Audio and any of teh other marketeers who decided AC line products seem like a good item to jump onto. Tripplite, SL Waber, Leviton Hubbell and some other commercial products are teh ones to use alnong with Furman. so much BS at extrme prices. It's still just basic electrical design, not which snake skin or dumb name works. So much voodo, so many scammers, it's AC power. Voodo is not involved. APC, Minuteman are also other power products. There are some more commercial products that would be just fine at non inflated audio pricing.
I'd like to know how some of these outfits try to explain how they get "unlimited" power. It damn well better be a fuse in there, since no one has yet had any electrical device that is unlimited power. Marketing before design. If they claim stuff that is against any logic, they are full of crap. More marketing than AC power products. $3,000 line filters should almost do an entire house. Some of these brands are really grossly overpriced, with fancy front panels, and very little inside to do anything it's meant to. Surge, Spike, overvoltage proection. Not mystical musical issues. It's AC line power, that's all.

CECE
CECE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 17 2005 - 8:16am

http://www.harmony-central.com/ProductImages/Large/000004962.jpg http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=PM-8_II

Jeff Wong
Jeff Wong's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sep 6 2005 - 3:28am

AlexO - Have you tried power conditioning? I suspect results will vary depending on the power supply designs employed and strongly suggest trying in your own system before buying. Personally, I have found it to be incredibly beneficial, allowing me to hear far deeper into my music. I'd go so far as to say it's worth doing to see how much more resolution you can get out of your current system before upgrading components.

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am

Hi Jeff,

That's fair enough. Although I would think that having a dedicated circuit for your hi-fi would probably do more good and be cheaper than spending a few grand on a power conditioner.

I heard an expensive system with and without power conditioner running off a dedicated circuit and I couldn't hear any real difference.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 7 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am

Furman makes some nice stuff. They traditionally made power distribution and EMI/RFI filtering equipment for sound reinforcement applications. I use Furman stuff to power my recording equipment when recording concerts, etc. on-site.

The unit you heard is basically an isolation transformer with passive filtration that outputs balanced power. Balanced power is nice in that it eliminates ground loops that can cause hum. Despite DUP's protestations, there is nothing scary about balanced power. The voltage differential applied to the powered equipment is the same. The labeling and GFCI "issues" are handled by the unit itself - no biggie.

PS Audio's power regeneration equipment is a good deal more sophisticated, and works very differently. It takes incoming AC, converts it to DC and the creates or "regenerates" a more perfect sine wave.

A cleaner sine wave leads to better sound. The reason is simple. All of our equipment takes the power out of the wall and modulates it with a musical signal to eventually power the speakers. If the signal coming in to the equipment is cleaner, the output of the equipment is cleaner as well, with less distortion.

An imperfect analogy is to consider the suspension on a car. Part of the job of the suspension is to filter out the bumps in the road to provide a more comfortable ride. If there is a prefilter ahead of the car in the form of repaving machine the car will ride much more smoothly, regardless of how good the suspension is.

Some manufacturers build such equipment in to their amps. Levinson incorporates similar circuits in its amps. Its one of the reasons their stuff is expensive.

The latest PS Audio regenerator has rack mount ears so I could take it along to power my recording equipment. Sometime I'll try it. Their stuff is pretty amazing on the reproduction side - I expect it to be great on the recording side also.

bobedaone
bobedaone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: Feb 1 2007 - 12:27am

Thanks for your input, Elk!

Jeff Wong
Jeff Wong's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sep 6 2005 - 3:28am


Quote:
Hi Jeff,

That's fair enough. Although I would think that having a dedicated circuit for your hi-fi would probably do more good and be cheaper than spending a few grand on a power conditioner.

I heard an expensive system with and without power conditioner running off a dedicated circuit and I couldn't hear any real difference.

I have a dedicated line for my main system (speaker based, and my preference, despite my avatar) and with power conditioning, performance is superior.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 7 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am


Quote:
I have a dedicated line for my main system (speaker based, and my preference, despite my avatar) and with power conditioning, performance is superior.

This is my experience as well.

However, the results vary with the quality of incoming power. Most homes have around 4-5% distortion riding on the power. However, some have much less. Those who are fortunate to have less distortion will hear less improvement.

Oddly enough my house is the only one on my power transformer (fairly rural) and even with the refrigerator, computer and other major noise culprits turned off, I still have around 3.5% power distortion.

Log in or register to post comments
-->
  • X