Integrated Amp Reviews

"... I would never purchase an integrated amplifier with a DAC or phono stage residing in the same box. To me, that's like buying an active loudspeaker. Why would I pollute a fine audio component with a non-upgradeable and possibly third-rate ancillary".

I've often wondered why magazines ostensibly dedicated to audiophilia justify reviewing pre-/integrated amplifiers without phono stages (let's forget about the IC that is a DAC), and this lamest of justifications above provides the context for asking. Why, firstly, would anyone have any faith in the sound-quality chops of such an amplifier when the highest-quality audio source (i.e., a turntable) was not used in its design? Does this reviewer kid himself (or, more importantly, his readers) that such designers use live, all-analogue FM broadcasts to design, test, and voice their amplifiers, or is he content for such amplifiers to be designed with digital audio signals as their source? Even if a turntable source was used (presumably using a non-'third-rate' phono stage), how could any end-user know how such an amplifier would sound with vinyl unless the same phono-stage used by the manufacturer in design or the reviewer in appraisal were also purchased alongside? It behooves amplifier designers -- people like Pass in particular -- to use the best quality source available in designing their kit and if there's no phono input then it wasn't used. If a turntable was used, then there is no justification whatsoever for not including a phono input.

The reason a phono stage belongs in an amplifier is because it equalises and amplifies the output of a phono cartridge, both of which are the only jobs of an amplifier (and, similarly, why a DAC does not belong in an amplifier, any more than a tweeter does). If Nelson Pass or indeed anyone else cannot design an integrated amp ('integrated' being the operative word here) worthy of being reviewed by Stereophile without putting a 'third-rate' phono stage in it, then he is worthy only of our opprobrium and certainly not of our patronage. Of course, he is perfectly capable of doing so, and it's silly reviewer statements like the one starting this review heading this comment that let him and many like him get away with not doing so.

Come-on Stereophile -- you aren't 'What Hi-Fi'. There's plenty of 'magazines' that pander to the computer-as-music-source crowd. Stick to the audiophilia that is implicit in your name...

... (or DAC) phobia, Accuphase makes a pair of FET output, class A biased integrated amps, with card slots for plug-in phono stage and DAC option boards.
http://www.accuphase.com/model/e-800.html
http://www.accuphase.com/model/e-650.html

Have no fear of a built-in phono preamp or DAC?
Then get the option boards.
http://www.accuphase.com/model/ad-50.html
http://www.accuphase.com/model/dac-50.html

Rather have an external phono preamp or DAC?
That's covered, too.
http://www.accuphase.com/model/c-37.html
http://www.accuphase.com/model/dc-950.html
http://www.accuphase.com/model/dc-37.html

I'd want to audition the Accuphase amps before declaring something else to be reference grade.

Incidentally, an "arcane art form" such as opera should have been composed by Verdi and sung by Bergonzi.

May be HR could review the new NAD M33 with Purifi 'Ultra-Quiet Amplification Technology' 200 WPC integrated amp, $5,000 ......... M33 has built-in phono-stage, DAC, Dirac-Live, tone controls, Wi-Fi access and headphone output :-) .......

I'll only go part way with Daveip's comment, to the extent that he implicitly flags the silliness of the review's expressed prejudice against integrated amps with phono stages (and, presumably, preamps with phono stages). Although I have a great fondness for vinyl (having grown up listening to it) and I own a separate all-tube phonostage (BAT) with a step up transformer, I would not claim vinyl as "state of the art." The best vinyl is certainly very good -- but so is the best digital. The limiting factors seem to be the quality of the recording and mastering, not so much the medium.

I do have an issue with reviewers --almost all of whom are unqualified to opine on the subject -- repeating with praise the manufacturer's description of the advantages of his unique circuit design and so on. And if we're going to talk about fetishes, why is this amplifier not balanced (which seems to be a fetish praised by many).

The proof, of course, is in the listening and in the measuring to some degree. Thankfully JA's measurements suggest that this is not the amp to use with 4 ohm speakers unless one like an additional flavoring in one's music reproduction.

Exciting and thought provoking. What more could we hope for from Stereophile's Poet Laureate.

A reviewer or even a dedicated neurotic/psychotic Audiophile should own gear that encourages separates evaluation. ( I prefer Active Loudspeakers and/or Manufacturer-Designed complete systems as in : Meridian, Linn, PS Audio, Schiit ( in-spite of their horrible name and rear mounted power switches ) and even Diaveliet from France .

No phono, No problem.

The World's population today doesn't own Vinyl, doesn't plan on owning vinyl or doesn't even know what vinyl records are. Designing new Audio Gear for a 21st Century Marketplace won't include 33.3 ( why should it ? ) There are plenty of previously loved ARC Vinyl Preamps for any of us old geezers that are still holding large collections and want something vintage and interesting.

There are some very nice vinyls coming out but I can't play any of them on my mobile rig, so why bother? When I'm home, my family don't want the house filled with Russian Pianos, maybe if I'm a single guy but no way around wifey.

I will probably never own PASS gear but I do like reading HR's opinions. I'm waiting for Mr.HR's review of the 1,800 Watt Class D from PASS ( the size of an iPhone ), when it finally comes out next year or so. ( doubles as a remote control )

Tony in Venice

ps. I miss Enid Lundley and wire comment.

Look at the distortion at low powers — really bad stuff. Not cheap either. I will pass (pun intended).

Compare the measurements of this Pass INT-25 integrated ($7,250) with twice as expensive BorderPatrol amp ($14,500) :-) .........

At the volumes Herb was listening, the distortion levels are quite reasonable. (And of course at lower volumes the distortion would be even less perceptible.) Also, the rising THD+n per frequency wouldn't come into play for opera or really any reasonable music. In what circumstances would we listen to such high frequency content at such levels?

This is not a defense of the amp but rather to point out that its "weaknesses" don't really come into play in real life situations. YMMV.

But, for me who has quite a few components; tuners, cd players, computer audio, SACD and several turntables, only three inputs is a bit of a deal-breaker. It is not a knock on Mr. Pass and his gorgeously sounding equipment but on some of these manufacturers who make fewer and fewer inputs. Guess I'm old school.

I cannot understand why the difference in distortion at 100mW is so different between the two amps.
What went wrong with measurement.....

:--))

Herb,

Have you heard 75 Dollar Bill's album "I Was Real"? I think you will enjoy it!

Herb has a new reference - most, most, most predictable.

Price-equivalent comparisons to the Pass INT-25 are just waiting to be made, namely:

- The venerable Sugden Masterclass IA-4 solid state class A integrated putting out 33wpc (particularly given the history of Devore / Sugden show combinations)
- The just-released Modwright KWH225i hybrid integrated biased 25 wpc Class A then A/B to 225 (with the added twist of 6922s in the preamp section and enough juice to push those lovely Studio Electric F2s)

Always a fan of the chimeric admixture of a very reasonable form factor (integrated amp) allied to a wasteful, Dionysian impulse (Class-A-or-be-damned!).

I has Pass Labs XA25 and it is an excellent power amp, great measurement. I wonder Why the measurement of this INT-25 is much worse than the XA25 on the power side? Isn't the INT-25 is built based on the XA25?