>>> "Hi may, I've been to your website and have seen your offer of trying some cd foil. Unforunately it seems the only to contact you is with outlook express, which I know from past experience no longer works for me, dunno why.
So I hope you do not mind me asking this way. (BTW, do you still supply samples of it??) " <<<

Terry j, sorry you have had trouble contacting us. I must say this is the first time I have been approached in a direct way on a Chat Forum. I really thought we had made it easy on our website for people to request a sample !!

Yes we still supply a sample of the Rainbow Foil and if you would let me have your Full postal address I will be pleased to send you one. If you have difficulty going the Outlook Express path, just send an E-mail using your normal E-mail client to foil@belt.demon.co.uk with your FULL postal address.

>>> "What I do want to say upfront is that tbh I am quite skeptical that it will do anything, and the reason I say that is if that makes you think it is not worthwhile sending me any then I do understand, what would be in it for you." <<<

No problem. As you will no doubt appreciate, we are used to skepticism. You are not the first and certainly won't be the last !!

>>> "Fair question to ask, if I'm skeptical then why would I try? Well the review on soundstage (was it?, the synergiser thingy) seems pretty emphatic. There are many possible reasons I can think of why 'he may be making it up', but I always come back to 'why would he bother?' So, as skeptical as I am I am curious to give it a try." <<<

Fair question indeed, Terry !! The reviewer was Greg Weaver in SoundStage and he followed the review you refer to:-
http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize041999.htm

with two other reviews :-
http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize071999.htm
http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize199912.htm

My answer to you as to 'why would he bother', is the SAME answer whether it is regarding our products OR other people's products !! Why would any respected audio journalist with a reputation to uphold RISK that reputation, RISK being ridiculed, if they did not feel that it was important that they should share their experiences (i.e gaining improvements in their sound by doing certain things) with other audiophiles ?

>>> "I am moving away from playing cd's (tho of course I often still do) to using a computer as a music server. What do we do in that case?? Stick the foil on the cd before ripping, or stick the foil on the server and it will 'do it's job' that way, or maybe both??" <<<

The quickie answer is "you 'treat' everything you can". The slower answer is you 'treat' the CD before ripping, you 'treat' the computer, the music server and all the way through to the speakers and/or headphones - and then even further - the listening environment !!

Regards,
May Belt.

Try the freezing techniques first. If you don't hear an improvement after doing these procedures correctly, then you can remain sceptical or you can assume there is something that is stopping you from hearing the effects and you might want to address that before progressing.

terry,

re, freezing , I have a new product : cryogenic in ear monitors.

They freeze the incoming music and your eardrums at the same time.

Hurry with your order , these wont last long due to all the medical malpractice lawsuits I am losing.

(apologies MAy, I,m in a goofing mood)

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Forgot to ask, I am moving away from playing cd's (tho of course I often still do) to using a computer as a music server. What do we do in that case?? Stick the foil on the cd before ripping, or stick the foil on the server and it will 'do it's job' that way, or maybe both??

Stick the foil on the CD before ripping, it will improve the sound of the extracted file. Stick one at the end of the USB cord, if you use that. One on the display of the music server, one at the inputs, one at the end of the AC cord, one on any cables. If you burn any CD's, put one on the CD-R before burning it.

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I've often wondered if there are demarcation lines if you will between different reviewers, on the one hand there is the group where there is no tweak too crazy, on the other the more 'restrained' shall we say, hmm a bit like the battle lines that get drawn on every audio forum.

Yes, exactly like that. And the reason for the different reviewers is the same reason why some people are conservative, and some are liberal. Some are open-minded and some are closed-minded/narrow-minded. Some like keeping the status quo, and some like pushing the envelope. Some are leaders and some are followers. Some are sheep and some are lone wolves. Some are terrain levelers and some are pencil sharpeners. Some are yin, and some are not yin. Some are tomatoes, and some are tomahtoes. Some are some and others are others. Some...

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Do not have two copies of a cd, and cannot justify buying a second copy on a long shot like this, will have to see if/read up whether it works on burnt copies, and that question also applies to the foils actually, does it work on burnt copies?

Yes and yes.

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And if I do not hear anything I'll be in the market for treated in ear monitor buds heh heh

Any buds you buy can be treated. Place a foil at the end of the cord, and you can also try one each near the two earpieces.

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Freezing? I could try it, it is mentioned (I think) elsewhere in greg weavers reviews, if not it is around...maybe on the advanced audiophile site. Again, not much faith that it will work but if I'm trying one then why not another eh?

Sorry, my site is down. I changed providers and never got around yet to fixing the pages so they point to the new provider. The Freeze Process is also described in the Free Tweaks section on the PWB site. I'll freeze 100-spindle blank CD or DVD's to get better burns. So you can try that, and compare it to an unfrozen CD-R or DVD-R.

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Again, an explanation that I do not give too much credence to, but at least I can use that as a working hypothesis that burning two copies will be enough to enable me to do an a/b comparo (unless there are different 'mechanisms' to different tweaks, for now I'll assume it applies to these)

Leave one copy out of the room, while you're comparing the other.

>>> "Do not have two copies of a cd, and cannot justify buying a second copy on a long shot like this, will have to see if/read up whether it works on burnt copies, and that question also applies to the foils actually, does it work on burnt copies?" <<<

Some 20 years ago, one of the monthly British Hi Fi Magazine or another would have a free CD attached to the front cover so, at that time in the UK, we had a good opportunity to be able to get two identical copies of a CD quite cheaply !!!!!

If you do not have two identical copies of any CD, there is something else you can try. Everyone, and I repeat Everyone, has at least one CD where they have been disappointed with the sound from it ever since they bought it - and therefore never play it. Hunt it out, listen to it, confirm that there is something about it which does not give you the quality of sound you were wanting, then put it through the freezing/slow defrost process using your own domestic deep freezer - THEN listen to it. Now, I am obviously not meaning that you don't like the TYPE of music, I am meaning that you were disappointed with the QUALITY of the sound. I.e loud, aggressive, shouty sound - or dull, boring, 'sat on', muddy sound. I would predict that you will be surprised at the increase in "quality" after 'freezing'. You might STILL not like the TYPE of music, but I think you will find that the overall sound 'quality' will have improved !!!!!!

Have fun.

Regards,
May Belt.

Boy, that was long.

Will do. Not that I have exhaustively researched all the references and uses for the foil...but from this it seems that you feel it can help everything. I mean, is it also suggested that we put it on the inputs of the pre, the outputs of the pre etc etc all down the chain??

None of this is official. I'm just giving you my personal suggestions, from direct or indirect determinations, for alternative locations. Because you said you don't play CD's much. Yes, inputs outputs anywhere in the chain.

I was just making a general observation, I do pick up some 'hidden' slights in there, and knowing your view on things audio it is not too hard to work out who is who in your zoo.

I was just making a general observation myself, out of my own experiences. That there an awful lot of biases and prejudices that work their way into audio reviews - or prevent reviewers from reviewing some audio tweaks or taking them seriously. Reviewers who damn a product without giving it a serious trial, or even trying it at all - are definitely not "in my zoo".

Ahh, but that would kind of be superfluous would it not? If my joke was taken as serious, then I would only be going to earphones if the foil didn't work, which does make your suggestion of using foil on the earphones redundant

Maybe. Or maybe not?! It is possible, not saying it will happen but possible, that even if the foils don't work during your testing, but you install and leave them on the earbuds as described, then get used to the sound of the buds for a few weeks or so, then remove them, you might find the sound is not the same quality as what you were used to. It's happened where people who couldn't hear the lift in sound quality with the foils in, could hear something after it was removed.

these things seem to work at a distance, from your own investigations what sort of radius do they have??

I'm currently working that out myself! The basic rule is they stop at your door (although I'm not sure if I've ever tested this). A foiled object should have less effect outside the room you're in, and no discernable effect outside your door. But there are exceptions to this phenomenon. e.g. I recently treated a friend's car (not with foils but similar PWB stuff). I treated nothing in her house. She called the other day to tell me the sound of her stereo improved, and she could hear information in passages that she had not heard previously. While the skeptics will offer their excuses for this (ie. expectation bias), I know at the time the stereo in the house did improve, as I kept checking on it during the process of treating the car. But I'm not ready to confirm any of this until I accomplish this a few more times.

I mean maybe a bunch of audiophiles can all chip in together and buy one set of the whole suite of treatments, yet all would collectively benefit. One customer for New York say, and all reap the rewards. turn that on it's head...maybe you could do a local door knock of all your audiophile neighbours and demand a tithe as they are benefiting from the treatments you are using heh heh, a bit of income on the side.

If only a single foil piece of foil, or even a set, were that powerful, my neighbours would likely already have them. Whatever effect they may or may not have on your stereo outside of your home, is likely to be too small to be discerned. But that doesn't rule out the effect they may have on, say, your iPod or car stereo, when you're hundreds of miles from home. Not content to leave well enough alone, some experimenters have conducted timed global experiments with some of this stuff (not foils, AFAIK), and reported positive results. I can't say much about that, since I did not participate in the experiments.

I'd be interested in your report Terry, either way. Just post it in the Tweaks section. Have fun.