then there is a whole range of isolation products such as cones, footers, spikes and racks.  not to mention weights that you put on top of your gear.

i use some of these and find that the changes are mostly subtle, but worthwhile.  my personal philosophy is to get the basics to a high level and then judiciously apply selected tweaks.

tom

"Actually, for many, the *first* tweaks in their system. I can't believe how many new things we have, for our systems.

AC power conditioners and on-site generators. These were rare in audio, as recently as the 1990's. Now it's hard to find an audiophile without them - they work.

RF noise removers - like the Nordost QX4 and Acoustic Revive's devices. Effectiveness may vary - but Art Dudley really liked the Nordost, at least in his system.

"1F" noise removers. A theory says that electrons get jammed in the signal path - and people like Jack Bybee and Bob Smith (w/ NuForce) are doing something about it. Most of us never heard of this type of noise but apparently, it was introduced to the music signal-path.

Power supply noise. Bybee again - but this time he stands alone with his new "Music Rails". Power supplies were always high on the blame-list in robbing us of musical detail. So it makes sense that the issue is being tackled aggressively. These are just coming out, but first reports say they are a major advance in sound.

Room "conditioning" products. Audiophiles are scratching their heads as to how they work - but again, reports say they are *not* snake oil. Passive products ("resonators", the "Hallograph") and active (SteinMusic and Lessloss "Blackbody") are making a difference in many audiophile rooms. I guess the era of room "treatment" and floor-cable lifters is over - we are awash in a new world of tweaks....."

Yes, there has been a revolution in tweaks.   The Green pen, demag devices, ionizers and anti-static sprays, tiny bowl resonators, intelligent chips that employ artificial atoms, crystals like quartz, topaz and sapphire for vibration control and RFI/EMI control - who can keep up with all of these things, I implore you?  Schumann Frequency generators, a plethora od CD fluids for removing mold release compound and otherwise improving performance, 70 products (count 'em) from PWB Electronics, including a Red Pen for writing messages that improve the sound, battery-powered alarm clocks that improve audio and video, NASA-grade ceramics, not to mention the revolution in vibration isolation control, room treatments, high per4formance outlets, outlet covers, fuses, the proliferation of audiophile devices that employ quantum mechanics, break-in devices for cables and ICs, the use of specialized wood like ebony and maple.  Even ordinary water in little bowls on the floor.  It's a brave new world.

geoff kait

machina dynamica

Some pretty laughable tweaks in this discussion. Not all of course but a LOT. No need to do any REAL tests of course since it's all just been proven by the printed word here.

johnny p. wrote:

Many of the items that Geoff mentions are either laughable or simply not needed (anymore). Alarm clocks are probably in the laugh category but optical-CD tweaks are not. The problem is that we are leaving the optical disc-drive era. Here comes hardisk and memory playback.

Room treatment and vibration control have been around since the 80s. Surely they have improved - but my list was more focused on newer items. The exception might be AC power devices. But in my look back, I found that they were rare until 8 to 10 years ago. Before this, listeners reported that they helped in some ways, hurt in others. So many simply avoided them.

I forgot to mention de-magnetizing LPs - (I think) new in the past 5 years. I can't believe it took *that* long for this tweak to come out !! Finally, after-market fuses - if the system in play needed (a better) one.

Well, one could say de-magnetizing LPs is laughable, too, no?  It all comes down to one's experience, determination and, to a certain extent, open-mindedness, if you know what I mean.

geoff kait

machina dynamica

johnny p. wrote:

Based on numerous reviews, de-magnetizing (LPs) is not laughable. 

Ditto the battery powered clock, heck,  it even won an award from Positive Feedback.  The Red Pen was reviewed, too,, as were the tiny little bowls and just about every other weird or preposterous sounding thingamabob out there.  I suspect it all comes down to what you feel comfortable with,what doesn;t icross the line too much.  LOL

geoff kait

machina dynamica

The battery powered alarm clock was reviewed by EnjoytheMusic, Ultra Audio, Soundstage as well as Positive Feedback Online.  "With so many other options available?"   Options for what?  The alarm clock's operation and effects are not related to any of the other tweaks we've been discussing.  I.e., there really is no substitute.

geoff kait

machina dynamica

johnny p. wrote:

The newer options are AC re-generators (for power), Schuman Frequency, Blackbody, and Steinmusic devices (for room).

All were positively reviewed - something we *can't* say about the alarm clock.

The alarm clock is just as new as those you listed.  The alarm clock was not only positively reviewed, it got an award, fer cryin out loud.  You got something against clocks?  Besides, you act like all those devices are equivalent, that the clock is equivalent to them and that they're the only options.  

If you get enough reviews eventually you'll stumble on somebody who either can't hear or can't put together a decent system.  - old audiophile axiom

Geoff Kait

machina dynamica

johnny p. wrote:

The alarm clock is not "just as new" as the ones I listed. Several items I mention are new in the past 1-3 years - the clock was out before that.

--- new is relative.  Who is going to quibble over a year or two?  Besides newer is not necessarily better.  Why get upset over a little alarm clock, anyway?  The tweaks you listed are a little daft sounding themselves, doncha think?

And winning awards matters *if* several writers give 'em out. The alarm clock, with one award, does not fit this requirement......

--- hel-looo, I didn't say it won awards, silly, I said it won an award (singular).  Awards don't grow on trees, ya know.  Credit where credit is due, I always say.

Geoff kait

machinadynamica.com

advanced audio concepts

Quote:

johnny p said

“Based on numerous reviews, de-magnetizing (LPs) is not laughable.”

You obviously missed the extremely long (and quite heated) debate on the demagnetising technique which took place on this Stereophile Forum a few years back.   With some people confirming that the technique improved the sound, with some people rolling around on the floor laughing at the suggestion of such a technique having an effect on the sound and with such as Ethan W implying fraud by the manufacturers of such a device.

And, this was in the face of the numerous positive reviews you refer to.

Of course de-magnetizing LPs and CDs and improving the sound is not laughable.   If the technique is found to give improvements in the sound, then it is not laughable.   In fact, that technique and many other techniques pose serious questions in the world of audio.

You are quite correct in your approach that if one is seriously interested in achieving good sound, then one should take notice of some people’s experiences and observations – if those people are well respected within the audio industry.   But taking notice is only the first step, one then has to try to find an explanation for any ‘effect on the sound’ being described.

My take on it is that when certain reviewers report on their observations of ‘something improving their sound’ – even though what they are describing may appear strange within the world of audio – it is because they care !!   Because their sound has suddenly “improved”    And, they wish to inform others of their observations !!

Even though these reviewers are perfectly aware that, in describing their experiences, they most likely will come up against attack and ridicule.   But, nevertheless, ARE still prepared to describe their experiences.

As you point out :-

Quote:

“Room "conditioning" products. Audiophiles are scratching their heads as to how they work - but again, reports say they are *not* snake oil. Passive products ("resonators", the "Hallograph") and active (SteinMusic and Lessloss "Blackbody") are making a difference in many audiophile rooms”.

The devices were developed after certain earlier “observations” – not from existing knowledge in audio and electronic text books – but from people’s initial observations !!

For example :-

Some Background to the design of the LessLoss Blackbody device:-

Quote:

“For example, Louis once filled his listening room with more than 100 lit blue light bulbs to track unexpected improvements on his hifi's performance. Then he ran bulbs over the gamut of the rainbow. After he'd identified a dark blue hue—near violet in fact—as the one most beneficial to sound, he just had to understand why. He wanted to exploit the same effect in a more practical and energy-efficient manner.”

Some background to the Stein Music device from the designer :-

Quote:

”Some years ago, my wife used some rose quartz for decoration in our showroom. When we powered up the system, we had the impression that the sound had changed somewhat. It was not a big difference; it was something like moving a curtain into a somewhat different position. But it did make some change.

 

“We wondered what was causing this phenomenon. Then, while moving the quartz, we found it made a small change in the music. It was small, but detectable. So we asked ourselves how this can be.”

Some background to the use of the Schumann resonance device :-

The Schumann resonance device was initially created as “an aid to a person’s wellbeing”.   However, at some time, someone using such a device in their room (from an ‘aid to health’ point of view) realized that whenever the Schumann resonance device was in their room, their sound was much better.   So, the Schumann resonance device then began to be introduced as a “device to improve your sound” technique.

But, as I keep saying, the “problem WHY and HOW” such techniques and devices can improve the sound is STILL on the blackboard, still waiting to be answered.

The devices you refer to are just the latest in a long string, stretching back over 30 years.   There is now quite a queue of questions awaiting answers !!

Regards,

May Belt,

Manufacturer.

johnny p. wrote:

Geoff:

New is *not* relative. With changes taking shape (almost) yearly in audio, something that came out a year or two ago will get more attention than something 6 years old.

The items I mention are not "daft" sounding. Nobody will say that Jack Bybee is "daft". The active room devices generate frequencies - as does the music we hear. A little removed from inserting an alarm clock into the power/signal path.

Awards don't grow on trees ? I say they do - but if more than one writer awards it, *now* it gets my attention.....

. 

If you think that no one says Jack Bybee is daft you must be living in a cave.  Apologies to Jack.  I have spoken with Jack on the subject of quantum mechanics, Bybee's stuff has been around for at least 12 years so I hope you're not trying to use his stuff as examples of new devices.  Furthermore, the Lessloss Blackbody is not an active device, nor are the tiny little bowls.  Finally, I'm pretty sure you haven't quite glommed onto the battery powered alarm clock - I'm not referring to the Tice Clock of 20 years ago that plugged into a wall outlet, but the recent clever clock, the one that just sits there, not in the signal path and not plugged into the wall.  Hel-looo!

I'm not sure I understand your argument regarding awards.  Very few of these difficult to explain tweaks win awards.  Can you name two that won more than one award?  

Geoff kait

machina dynamical

johnny p. wrote:

*You* say Bybee is daft - his background says he's not. And his devices - the "1F" noise remover and "Music Rails" - are new in the last 3 years, not 12.

The SteinMusic is active......

Bybee's "Speaker Bullets" won more than one award, just from memory. But I've got better things to do than scour the awards section of (every) audio journal to see who won multiple awards. But you seem to be the type that does just that....

I didn't say Bybee was daft, I was only making the point that many regard his products, being quantum mechanical, as snake oil.  I do not regard quantum mechanical devices as necessarily snake oil, myself.  If in fact Bybee won more than one award that is only one, I asked you to name two.  Actually the SteinMusic Harmonizer is both active and passive, what with the crystals that are attached to the room walls.  You have still not acknowledged that the battery powered clock is relatively recent in the overall scheme of things.  By the way, it is also quantum mechanical, so you should feel more comfortable about it, eh?  

Geoff Kait

machina dynamica

I hate to judge before all the facts are in, but I suspect you're confusing an award with a review.  I'm aware of the Stereo Times and Enjoy the Music reviews of the SteinMusic Harmonizer, but AFAIK there were no Awards handed ouit.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.  Not that there's anything wrong with a positive review.  By contrast the Clever Clock won the prestigious Brutus Award from PFO, a more, shall we say, elite publication than either ST or ETM.

If time did not exist man would have to invent it.  -  old audiophile axiom

geoff kait

machina dynamica

johnny p. wrote:

SteinMusic won Stereo Times Publisher's Choice (2010) and EnjoytheMusic's Best of 2011 "Blue Note" Award.

You use the clock - I'll hit snooze........

...even the most controversial tweaks can win awards.  Certainly the SteinMusic Harmonizer qualifies as controversial, you have to admit.  One need look no further than the discussions of SteinMusic's device on this very forum earlier this year.  What I think we have here is simply an example of one man's snake oil is another man's scientific achievement.  Evil laughter.

"There's more to heaven and Earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy. " -- old audiophile saying

tootles,

Geoff at machinadynamica.com