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zane9
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The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

So Stereophile partners with Festival Son et Image in Montreal. This one is hard to swallow:

"The Show's keynote speech is being given by Monster Cable founder Noel Lee at 10am on the trade day, Thursday April 3."

BillB
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Are you saying the keynote speaker is not credible? Why?

zane9
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Start here:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/field-notes/the-truth-about-monster-cable-266616.php

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Not a thing about that article reduces having Monster's Noel Lee as a keynote speaker. Personally, I don't know how interesting his speech will be, but the talk related to that article was informative and no nonsense IMO. What's your gripe- that cables are a falsehood, or that Monster isn't enough of a heavyweight for giving the keynote?

zane9
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

On sober second-thought, my position was wrong: Noel Lee is the perfect keynote speaker. His company, on a sales/volume basis, likely makes the biggest margins of any company in the history of audio/video. Monster Cable's business model should be taught in MBA programs. I failed to consider that his speech will be delivered on a trade-only day, when the great unwashed are not permitted to attend. Dissent will be absent, and attendees will likely hang off his every word, hoping for a nugget or two on how to rip-off the unsuspecting, unquestioning consumer.

dbowker
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Perhaps you'd feel more at ease in highly regulated socialist based commune, but assuming that all Business is out to "get the unsuspecting, unquestioning consumer" is both naive and disingenuous. I don't buy Monster because I don't think it is GOOD enough! Yep- I buy far more expensive Audioquest cables and believe me, I'd take 100 DBT tests, because EVERY time within a few bars of switching cables I know what's what.

I never bought them out of sales pressure or to impress anyone with fancy looking cables (all of which are hidden anyway). They sound better- a LOT better, on all fronts and the money they ask for is worth every penny to me. Notice I say "to me." If you can hear it or belive you could hear it, don't buy it. So Easy! No one is forcing or tricking those poor, ignorant unwashed masses you so smugly need to protect buy anything they don't want to. That's what a free market is all about.

Why don't you go to an auto forum and tell them how stupid and silly they are to find value in a Porsche or Lamborghini and see how far you'll get. Or have they all been duped by evil car companies too?

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

"now that there is funny"

RG

zane9
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:
Perhaps you'd feel more at ease in highly regulated socialist based commune

Not at all. Why not dial-down the sarcasm. Monster Cable is an absolute success story. Sales, marketing, branding, and profit margins have been the keys to the success of the company. I admire them for all those reasons.

But you launch a rant on why you don't buy Monster products. The likelihood of you doing better than chance in a DBT test is dubious, but that's for another debate.

I have zero interest in protecting anyone from buying anything...except if it threatens their life. I don't buy Monster products because the price tags do not reflect similar build quality available for much less money from any number of manufacturers.

The keynote speech will not ever stray into the areas where Monster has been scrutinized and criticised.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

I desagree with that. The build quality of my 15 years old cold-solder 1.5 Monster Cables, speaker and interconnect, are great. They sounded great, too, without any network. Tom Norton had them. I still use 5x25' and 5x1' in my home theater and I don't feel the need to upgrade although I use Transparent cables in my audio system. They work great too in combination with my Transparent interconnect cables, for some reason. I believe too many network boxes is detrimental to the sound (both speaker cables+interconnect cables with a network). Almost all high end cables have a network today but you would be surprised how good some great cables from the old days without any network sound. In many ways they sounded better.

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

What's the problem with Monster?

Didn't that guy pave the way for all the Audioquests and Taras of the world?

He seems to have been the guy who blazed the trail.

Criticizing Monster's margins compared to other cable "makers" is like complaining about WalMart's mark-ups while shopping at Tiffany's.

Besides, audiphiles love those mark-ups. He's just giving people what they want.

I say, if you are going to have an audio circus, then P.T. Barnum himself is a perfect keynote speaker!

(I know, audiophiles hate when a company goes "mainstream," but Monster has almost out-Bosed Bose in the consumer market! Gotta give cedit where credit is due.)

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

That's what he is impying. Noel Lee is suspicious in audio circles because he is the only one with Bose doing well

By the way I think Widescreen Review and AVSForum have cancelled their cruise this year but I could be wrong.

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

The problem with Monster is that they are successful.

As a group, those of us in the US both admire and resent success. We cheer for the underdog but despise those that really make it. Thus we collectively hate Microsoft, Wal-Mart, Monster - even Starbucks.

It gets pretty silly.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

It is really easy to hate Starbucks: they have nothing half way decent to eat and my espresso machine makes better espressos. Their concept works only in america because you are so far behind Europe in bars/bistro//brasseries serving espressos, french pastries, sandwiches, salads and croque-monsieurs type of light food.. They have beer and wine, too. Sometimes they have a plat du jour for lunch. I'll go to Starbucks the day they have good pastries at least, which will never happen.

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Blah blah. Anything else about America that you hate? If so, keep it to yourself.

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

I saw the Starbuck's CEO on Charlie Rose a while back and I wanted to choke the bastard. He said that Starbuck's is not in the business of selling coffee. They're in the business of selling the "experience".

A few weeks after seeing that interview, a friend of mine and I were walking in the village and we saw a store for rent. We looked inside and it was all in shambles, with a single fluorescent light providing horrible lighting inside. I turned to my friend and I said: "We should rent this place, not do any renovations and just charge people $50 to enter for the 'experience'"

BillB
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Yeah. That is so prevalent in business these days, though- they want to sell the "experience", since that's what they can differentiate. The coffee or the sneakers or the widgets can be similar between comparable brands, so they want you to focus on their image and/or atmosphere and/or spokesperson or etc.

It was many years ago (40-ish?) that the chairman of GM announced that they are not in the business of making cars, they're in the business of making money.

bifcake
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Yep. Most companies make more money through their trading divisions than they do through their core business. It's all vapor ware.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

That remind me of the owner of Pottery Barn who said he started his company because he could not find a decent sofa when he was looking for one. Of course he had no clue to what he was talking about. Pottery Barn now makes cheap, and bouncy sofas with thick cushions filled with foam for the most part. Camel back sofas, the best type of sofas, with thin cushions filled with down has always eluded them. The best has always eluded them.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

The american male in full, in all its glory!

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:
That remind me of the owner of Pottery Barn who said he started his company because he could not find a decent sofa when he was looking for one. Of course he had no clue to what he was talking about. Pottery Barn now makes cheap, and bouncy sofas with thick cushions filled with foam for the most part. Camel back sofas, the best type of sofas, with thin cushions filled with down has always eluded them. The best has always eluded them.

Ah, the DUP of sofas and culture tells us what the "best" kind of sofa is.

Elk
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:
Ah, the DUP of sofas and culture tells us what the "best" kind of sofa is.


Without DUP and Mr. Fatique to tell us we would be wholly unaware of the best cultural and electronic products. We owe them both a great debt.

tom collins
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

looking for a sofa at pottery barn doesn't strike anyone as ironic?

tom

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:
looking for a sofa at pottery barn doesn't strike anyone as ironic?

tom

About as ironic as someone posting about which sofa is the definitive sofa on an Audio Show thread.

Although, I now have a more complete picture of Grosse:

Sitting alone, watching a turntable spin, while listening to his fine espresso machine make the perfect cup of java as he sits on his perfect sofa.

Woo hoo!

Elk
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

tom collins
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

i am just happy that we have this fine, cultured fellow to tell us how screwed up we are

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

hihi! Pottery Barn doesn't sell any pottery. They basically sell crap like Crate & Barrel and Room & Board in well appointed locations in the midwest, and it is selling. People love crap here! I have been in the home of very wealthy people, the kind of people spending half the year abroad, and everything I have seen is crap. Their stay in Europe for long period of time doesn't change them a bit. They come back in the US to eat gladdly the same bad food. They buy art but it doesn't affect them, art doesn't change the american male. Art won't change their manners a bit.

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:
hihi! Pottery Barn doesn't sell any pottery. They basically sell crap like Crate & Barrel and Room & Board in well appointed locations in the midwest, and it is selling. People love crap here! I have been in the home of very wealthy people, the kind of people spending half the year abroad, and everything I have seen is crap. Their stay in Europe for long period of time doesn't change them a bit. They come back in the US to eat gladdly the same bad food. They buy art but it doesn't affect them, art doesn't change the american male. Art won't change their manners a bit.

Thank you for demonstrating how art has refined your manners.

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

I like Grosse. He's Honest.

And in this case, for the most part, he's right. It's always a toss up. Every group in a given upcoming nation will have it's group of folk who are overburdened with ignorance within the given 'nouveau riche'. With respects to the background of Europe, the US is a upcoming nation. Give it another 100-200 years to settle in. Strip the land bare at least once and have at least a few wars that decimate the entire nation and then the 'basic knowledge base' that folks in the US grow up in..might be a bit more realistic. The US has, on the surface, 'never lost'. And that's a mighty big fall, the kind that most Euro countries have faced numerous times. It can change the overall atmosphere for the better. It tends to teach respect.

Like the days of Hong Kong millionaires sitting down at the poker games in Vegas, with zero understanding of what they're getting into. And loosing badly.

Some folks it rubs off on, some folk it don't.

I allow for that he's likely talking with us as if we were sharing a glass or two at a bar. I tend to do the same, and definitely prefer straightforward talk, which can happen among people with realistic takes and attitudes.

I for one, have no problem with Noel being at the show. Why would I? He hawks cable fer chrissakes, he doesn't kill people.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Questions:
- Do you hold your fork like a screwdriver in your plate while holding a piece of meat?
- After cutting a piece of meat, do you switch or not to your right hand to put your fork in your month, the fork up like a spoon, not down?

KBK
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:
Questions:
- Do you hold your fork like a screwdriver in your plate while holding a piece of meat?
- After cutting a piece of meat, do you switch or not to your right hand to put your fork in your month, the fork up like a spoon, not down?

I can pile my peas up on the back of my fork. Learned it from an Englishman.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

A story about two Englishmen and education:

I am in my (English) club for lunch and I am sitting at the guest table and one Englishman says to the other one sitting accross the table: "I don't like your accent". Now that's a tuff call but who has more education? That guy had a terrible cockney accent.

Colnmary
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

I think you Americans need someone to teach you about culture. You seemed to have kicked out the only people who could have back in 1776...

Oh, anyone for a spot of tea?

Oh, before I am attacked by Brave American Patriots, I married a girl from Chicago.

bifcake
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

I used to be very neutral towards the English until I met some of them. Ugh, dreadful people. I prefer the Irish and the French any day of the week.

bobedaone
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Americans: We like our cars big, our beer cold, and our world wars won.

Hey - I ride a road bike, my first car was a Porsche, I drink wine, and I think F1 is superior to NASCAR. Do I get Euro Points for any of that?

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

They are dreadful indeed. About the only thing you kept from them here is the language.. and some bad food habits. When I was a teenager I loved the "petites Anglaises" though. It was easier to sleep with them than with the girls on the continent. Their men were not interested. At twenty they were still growing up trying to decide if they like men or women.

bifcake
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

American women never grow up from that perspective. They never clearly decide for themselves whether they like men or women.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

American women love only themselves. They will ride individuals telling them where they want to go. If you can't go where they want to go they change horse. Along the ride they don't mind having children though, unlike European women who are more careful. I would have let a Grace Kelly ride me a little but none of today's actresses. They all look so common!

bifcake
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

What if Grace Kelly wanted to have children? Would you hold that against her?

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:
I used to be very neutral towards the English until I met some of them. Ugh, dreadful people. I prefer the Irish and the French any day of the week.

Quite so old chap! Stereophile has never been the same since an Englishman took it over.

My father was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland.

He was an Orangeman and married my mother an English/Irish Roman Catholic. I've been at war with myself since birth.

I am thankful my Irish exhuberance is tempered by my english refinement.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Not a bit. More to that: they are good mothers. Americans were living in a house next door when I was a kid and I was always filled wirh envy. "Honey, sweetheart, Mickey, can I fix you something? -that in the middle of the afternoon while I was always on my own looking for food in the fridge with my parents, a little bit like the kid in Spielberg's movie Empire of the Sun. I dreamed of having an american mother. When I saw the Sound of Music I wanted Julie Andrews (born in England) to be my mom, too. At 13 I said to myself that I would marry one. My parents were brutal. They were kind only to their dog. They said that too much affection spoils a child. But when I became an adult I never married one after closer inspection.

bifcake
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:

Quote:
I used to be very neutral towards the English until I met some of them. Ugh, dreadful people. I prefer the Irish and the French any day of the week.

Quite so old chap! Stereophile has never been the same since an Englishman took it over.

I know! That's what I've been saying all along! The English are always scheming, always weaving webs of intrigue. When Gordon Holt was in charge of Stereophile, everything was clear: good was good and bad was bad. Now, we talk about the good, but we don't review the bad. Nothing is clear anymore. Is the component good? Well, sort of... except for these various issues, but we HIGHLY recommend it anyway!


Quote:
My father was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland.

He was an Orangeman and married my mother an English/Irish Roman Catholic. I've been at war with myself since birth.

I am thankful my Irish exhuberance is tempered by my english refinement.

I think either your father or your mother was conquered, but it's going to take me quite a while to figure out which was the conqueror and which was the vanquished.

The english refinement is a myth. It's just anal retention. Embrace your Irish side. You'll enjoy life more and more people will like you.

Grosse,

You made a good call. You don't want to marry a mother you always wanted.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

[quote
... Grosse,

You made a good call. You don't want to marry a mother you always wanted.

Speaking Gaulois here, sleeping with your mom can't be that bad if she is as pretty as Lea Massari in Louis Malle's movie Murmur of the Heart. This is how you brake your son in some civilized countries. It is a launching pad to investigate some more, and the kid playing in the movie just do that. He is on a roll after sleeping with his mother. Obviously this is not a British custom.

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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:
The english refinement is a myth. It's just anal retention. Embrace your Irish side. You'll enjoy life more and more people will like you

Oh my friend I do at every chance!

And as for marrying my mother... I leave the obsession with 'shrinks and mothers' to my American friends.

I married an American girl who is nothing remotely like my mother.

zane9
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:
What's the problem with Monster?

How about the latest foray against Blue Jeans Cable: a cease-and-desist order? Looks like the drive-by litigator has smacked into the wrong guy. The owner of Blue Jeans is a lawyer with 25 years of experience in litigation. His response to the cease-and-desist has been reproduced in full on another audio site.

So I still maintain that inviting the CEO of Monster to be the keynote speaker at FSI was questionable at best.

Elk
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility


Quote:
His response to the cease-and-desist has been reproduced in full on another audio site.


Where?

CharlyD
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Here is the posting.

Elk
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Thanks!

KBK
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Re: The Montreal Show (FSI): Farewell to Credibility

Further indoctrinations of youth into the psychotic world of sick shit:

http://ourfuture.org/blog-entry/rand-rescue

They ask what book should be used to counter such garbage being placed in the minds of the impressionable. I say the same book they gave me,which I'd already read long before it was handed out in high school:

"The Space Merchants"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Space_Merchants

Note: I'm turning this into a 'varied trash' thread.

Here's another one I just remembered:

Church of the Ultimate Naked Truth:

http://www.mwillett.org/church-of-ultimate-naked-truth.htm

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