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Grosse Fatigue
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Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video magazines alike..

Live concerts on DVD have been totally neglected by audio and video magazines such as Stereophile, TAS and their home theater magazines. Some of the people interested in live music on DVD never watch movies and never buy music without the video component to it. All they care is live concerts! How did audio and video magazines miss that? Audio magazines always brag about speakers capable of reproducing live music. I think video lift not only the sound proper but helps appreciate the music as well. Video do reinforce the performance of the Rolling Stones (they always sound bad anyway) for example, and of most pop music. The only guy I can't stand on video but I very much like audio only is Chris Isaac.

Elk
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

Actually, I have seen reviews of concert DVD's in both types of magazines.

I admit to not paying a lot of attention however as they don't interest me much (I'm not a big video person).

dbowker
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

I seem to remember quite a few reviews in the Music in the Round section- I, like Elk am not a "music in video" guy, but I'm pretty sure it's in there. I think John Marks has also reviewed some too.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

He reviews them only for surround sound, which is not what live concerts on DVD are about. It is not high resolution audio. You have people addicted to those live DVDs and they are largely ignoring them.

Elk
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

I don't find it odd that a reviewer for an audio magazine would review surround sound concert DVD's for <gasp> the quality of sound. Weird, huh?

However, if sound isn't of interest to you, there are lots of concert DVD reviews; magazines, blogs, etc. Just do a quick Google search.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
I don't find it odd that a reviewer for an audio magazine would review surround sound concert DVD's for <gasp> the quality of sound. Weird, huh?

However, if sound isn't of interest to you, there are lots of concert DVD reviews; magazines, blogs, etc. Just do a quick Google search.

I am going to call you DUP..

I am talking about magazines such as Stereophile, TAS, HI-Fi News, Hi-Fi+ and their offspring, magazines that I read. They are not interested in live concert videos. In the same time they brag all the time about live concert sound being the nec+ I think those videos are good for audio overall: they incite more people to go to live concerts. I am surprise that they in large part ignore them.

Ariel Bitran
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

here's one that JA did of the Pink Floyd Pulse DVD

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

I saw that. It is fun reading. Why does it have to be an e-Newsletter?

jazzfan
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
He reviews them only for surround sound, which is not what live concerts on DVD are about. It is not high resolution audio. You have people addicted to those live DVDs and they are largely ignoring them.

You hit the nail on head with

Quote:
It is not high resolution audio.

That's one of the most frustrating things about most concert videos: the dolby digital soundtrack, they could at least use DTS which tends to sound much better. And then there is usually the option of listening to the PCM source but the PCM is only stereo, not surround sound.

And speaking of surround sound, how does one place the performers in the surround sound mix of a live concert video when the camera angle is constantly changing? First the performer is on the left of one's screen and then they are one the right side and finally they end up in the middle of the screen. But that's a minor issue since most concert videos that I've seen (and I have seen quite a few) have terrible surround mixes to begin with.

Perhaps a live concert video on one of the high definition formats with a true high definition soundtrack would get the attention of the various audio and video magazines out there.

Elk
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:

Quote:
I don't find it odd that a reviewer for an audio magazine would review surround sound concert DVD's for <gasp> the quality of sound. Weird, huh?

I am going to call you DUP..


Name calling already?


Quote:
I am talking about magazines such as Stereophile, TAS, HI-Fi News, Hi-Fi+ and their offspring, magazines that I read.


I see. Your complaint is quite narrow then.

I suspect it is because these magazines focus on high quality reproduction of sound. Concert DVD's do not typically exhibit even good sound.

I similarly don't expect Grammaphone to review high end reproduction equipment, nor to cover indie rock.

Perhaps you can broaden your reading to include those publications that review concert DVD's?

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

[..I suspect it is because these magazines focus on high quality reproduction of sound. Concert DVD's do not typically exhibit even good sound.

I am aware of that. They should still review those, rate them and give them zero for audio, 10 for music, 6 for video, three thumbs down for the lead guitar player for placing his guitar between his legs, etc

Perhaps you can broaden your reading to include those publications that review concert DVD's?

No. I want Stereophile to do it.

bobedaone
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

Cream's Royal Albert Hall DVD is outstanding on a good surround system. There are definitely some concert DVDs worth listening to.

While I won't completely shoot down the idea of reviewing such material in Stereophile, I think it might be more at home in Stereophile's sister publication, Ultimate AV. In fact, they may already, but I haven't checked.

RGibran
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

The bonus DVD included in the recent Lynne Arriale Live CD is very well done. One of the better sounding Dolby discs I've heard. A treat to experience once, maybe twice :-)

RG

Buddha
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

Happy Birthday, Rgibran!

Glad you're here.

All the best.

Elk
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

Yes! Happy Birthday!

The advent of RG's years of service to mankind!

Thanks for the info on the Lynne Arriale disk combo. I have two of her recordings and enjoy them.

Elk
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:

Quote:
Perhaps you can broaden your reading to include those publications that review concert DVD's?

No. I want Stereophile to do it.


I would love espresso machine reviews in Stereophile; it's format combining subjective and objective testing would well serve the subject.

But, alas, they have better uses for the space. <sigh>

It's challenging enough for the magazine to serve its niche, without taking on reviews of items well-covered elsewhere.

The writers do, however, let us know of DVD's and other products that stand out. There was coverage in the past of concert recordings of Beethoven symphonies where one could also access the score and musicological analysis, mention of concert DVD's with truly excellent sound and/or good surround sound, mention of the first Clapton Crossroads DVD, etc.

I don't expect reviews of the Evanascence concert DVD however and I doubt many of Stereophile's readers do either. But maybe the emo-goth readership is larger than I appreciate.

smejias
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

I was planning to review an espresso machine, but, for some reason, the manufacturer wouldn't send me a review sample. What's up with that?

Robert Baird, by the way, covers concert DVDs every now and then. The last time, I believe, was in our February 2007 issue.

Happy birthday, rgibran.

bobedaone
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

Happy Birthday!

I'm singing, but you can't hear me.

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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
Happy Birthday!

I'm singing, but you can't hear me.

Thanks for the good news.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
I was planning to review an espresso machine, but, for some reason, the manufacturer wouldn't send me a review sample. What's up with that?

Robert Baird, by the way, covers concert DVDs every now and then. The last time, I believe, was in our February 2007 issue.

Happy birthday, rgibran.

www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/andrejapremium

My espresso machine belongs here because it looks like a Krell amp. Later I'll tell how to make french fries.

bobedaone
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:

Quote:
Later I'll tell how to make french fries.

Oh, you mean freedom fries?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Elk
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/andrejapremium

Gorgeous!

I like how it makes a Sylvia look very modest - which it is to the True Believers.

It is amazing the difference a good machine makes for those that have not apprenticed in Italy as barristas.

Back to audio: they make cool sounds!

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:

Quote:
www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/andrejapremium

Gorgeous!

I like how it makes a Sylvia look very modest - which it is to the True Believers.

It is amazing the difference a good machine makes for those that have not apprenticed in Italy as barristas.

Back to audio: they make cool sounds!

This one belongs here too. It even has "speakers",sort of. I would love to buy this one also just for the sheer beauty of it:

www.espressoparts.com/product/ISOMAC_MONDIALE

jazzfan
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/andrejapremium

My espresso machine belongs here because it looks like a Krell amp. Later I'll tell how to make french fries.

Looks like a Krell amp?? No way! High end audio is strictly aluminum where as espresso machines are all about stainless steel, copper or brass or even all three.

Krell amp:

Espresso machine:

See what I mean?

I guess not.

Kal Rubinson
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
I was planning to review an espresso machine, but, for some reason, the manufacturer wouldn't send me a review sample. What's up with that?

It was a 5.1 cup machine, so he sent it to me.

Kal

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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
Yes! Happy Birthday!

The advent of RG's years of service to mankind!

Thanks for the info on the Lynne Arriale disk combo. I have two of her recordings and enjoy them.

Elk,

If you

Buddha
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

I recognize the picture of that chrome machine at the bottom of the post.

They used that to check my prostate and colon at the same time.

jazzfan
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
I recognize the picture of that chrome machine at the bottom of the post.

They used that to check my prostate and colon at the same time.

Ouch!!!

RGibran
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

Most of us probably took a quick peek at the photo, but go back and read the specs on this baby. It's a
MODDED MACHINE!

Specs read like an Underwood Hi Fi advertisement!

Then notice all the additional tweaks you can purchase, easily totalling a third of the machines cost!

In the end, are there any measureable differences.

Surely the blacks are blacker.

And Buddha seems to offer up evidence the bottom end is tighter!

Everyone knows a cup of Jo tastes better in your favorite cup!

Jeez, and they talk about audiophiles!

RG

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Audiophile = Obsessive


Quote:
Most of us probably took a quick peek at the photo, but go back and read the specs on this baby. It's a
MODDED MACHINE!

Specs read like an Underwood Hi Fi advertisement!

Then notice all the additional tweaks you can purchase, easily totalling a third of the machines cost!

In the end, are there any measureable differences.

Surely the blacks are blacker.

And Buddha seems to offer up evidence the bottom end is tighter!

Everyone knows a cup of Jo tastes better in your favorite cup!

Jeez, and they talk about audiophiles!

RG

RG,

I believe that audiophiles fall well within the larger group known simply as obsessives. Whenever one is concerned about all the little details which go into making an object function at its highest level, then that person is usually considered "obsessive". Doesn't really matter what the object is, it could be an automobile, a fishing rod, an espresso machine or a power amp, as long as one is concerned with pushing the outer limits of performance then one is considered obsessive.

MF as been stating something similar to your point for quite some time now, i.e. that audiophiles get short shrift when it comes to obsessive behavior. Care a lot about wine, then you're a wine connoisseur; care a lot about watches, then you're a collector; care a lot about cookware, then you're a chef; but care a lot about audio equipment, then you're just plain crazy!!

Jeff Wong
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

I almost bought the modded Andreja by Chris a couple of years ago before they raised the price, but, its height and my counter cabinet proved to be a potential problem. It's still on my list of things to treat myself to in the future, probably after a Mazzer grinder.

Elk
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

Funny, I just knew this group liked espresso machines.

(Kal, great one by the way. )

rvance
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

QUOTE:

Concert DVD's do not typically exhibit even good sound.

Elk, I hate to disagree with someone of your audio pedigree, because you are more knowledgeable, but... The concert DVD's I have of Black and White Nights (Roy Orbison and friends), The Last Waltz (The Band), loudQUIETloud- A Film About the Pixies , Daryl Hall and John Oates in Concert and others all sound as good or better than their CD soundtrack counterparts , IMO. The discrete DVD-A's of Last Waltz and B&W Nights sound even better than the Dolby Digital or DTS video versions, so I usually listen to those and forego the video. Jonathan McEuen, Jimmy Ibbotson and Jennifer Warnes on AIX 24/96 5.1 is awesome. I'm looking forward to getting more titles from AIX and I listed their equipment suite below.

Microphones - Neumann, AKG, Schoeps, Sennheiser, Audio Engineering Associates

Preamps - Benchmark Media Systems

Digital Recorder - Euphonix R-136 tracks at 96 kHz/24 Bits

Mixing Console - Euphonix System 5 with 128 inputs, fully automated

DVD-Audio/Video Playback - Meridian 800/861

Mastering System - Sonic Solutions HD Multi Track

DVD-Audio Authoring - Sonic Solutions

DVD-Video Authoring - Sonic/Daikin Scenarist

Signal Processing - TC Electronics System 6000

Bi-Amplication - Butler 5150 and Bryston 4B & 9B

High-Resolution Microphone and Speaker Cables by Audience

Interconnects and Speaker Cables by Cardas Cables

Power Conditioning Audience Power Conditioning

Power Chords Audience Power Cords

5.1 Surround Monitoring - B&W Model 801 Matrix III on Anchor Stands

Monitoring/Subwoofer - TMH Labs "Profunder"

High-Resolution Audio/Video Server "K2" - Niveus Media

I am not contesting that the mastering and /or mixing quality of many concert video discs may not rise to the level of audiophile status, but many Redbook CD's don't, either.

Kal Rubinson
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
QUOTE:

Concert DVD's do not typically exhibit even good sound.

Elk, I hate to disagree with someone of your audio pedigree, because you are more knowledgeable, but... The concert DVD's I have of Black and White Nights (Roy Orbison and friends), The Last Waltz (The Band), loudQUIETloud- A Film About the Pixies , Daryl Hall and John Oates in Concert and others all sound as good or better than their CD soundtrack counterparts , IMO. The discrete DVD-A's of Last Waltz and B&W Nights sound even better than the Dolby Digital or DTS video versions, so I usually listen to those and forego the video.

OTOH, the Dave Matthews / Tim Reynolds "Live at Radio City" Blu-Ray Disc is so outstandingly good via Dolby TrueHD that you will listen to it without watching the Hirez video after the first time. Now, if you could somehow filter out Dave's inane badinage and just have the music............

Kal

Elk
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

I should have been more clear. When I stated that concert DVD's do not typically have even good sound I meant to allow for the exceptions which can be excellent.

I completely agree; the AIX 24/96 DVD's are indeed spectacular! I am lucky that my DVD player will pass 24/96 S/PDIF unmolested to my DAC - nummy!

As you note, the all audio 24/96 side is scrumptious. (But this begs the question, is it a concert DVD if there is no video?)

I haven't seen a Blu-Ray disc yet nor heard Dolby TrueHD as mentioned by Kal, having only read about each. They will both be fun to experience.

bertdw
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
And speaking of surround sound, how does one place the performers in the surround sound mix of a live concert video when the camera angle is constantly changing? First the performer is on the left of one's screen and then they are one the right side and finally they end up in the middle of the screen.

I recall using opera glasses (small binoculars) at many live performances. The sound field stayed in place as I "panned and zoomed" around the stage, as it should in this case.

Kal Rubinson
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
I recall using opera glasses (small binoculars) at many live performances. The sound field stayed in place as I "panned and zoomed" around the stage, as it should in this case.

Yeah but I'll guess your view never got you into the laps of the players or behind them.

Kal

bertdw
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

True, but I don't need to hear what the music sounds like from someone else's lap, either.

Elk
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

I don't have a surround system, but my understanding is that the AIX discs place the listener on stage among the performers with their on-stage view. This could be a hoot for those of us that perform.

Has anyone played with the various views on an AIX disc and can comment?

rvance
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
I don't have a surround system, but my understanding is that the AIX discs place the listener on stage among the performers with their on-stage view. This could be a hoot for those of us that perform. Has anyone played with the various views on an AIX disc and can comment?

The AIX disc I own (Nitty Gritty Surround) was recorded with 2 camera angles on the video side. One tracks the performers as they play in a circle on a brightly lit stage and the other moves about the periphery shooting alternate angles. There are several audio tracks. I can toggle between

Elk
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma

Thanks for the report.

Your description sounds like the AIX discs I have; relaxed performers in a circle doing a wonderful job. I usually listen to the DVD-A side, but the video is fun.

The imaging is of a fairly typical multi-track studio recording as each musician has their own mic.

"Musicians in the round would sound pretty odd to an audience, especially singers with their backs to them.

I need to try recording a small ensemble circled around a pair of omni mics or figure-eight. It might actually work.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: Live concerts on DVD totally neglected by audio and video ma


Quote:
I almost bought the modded Andreja by Chris a couple of years ago before they raised the price, but, its height and my counter cabinet proved to be a potential problem. It's still on my list of things to treat myself to in the future, probably after a Mazzer grinder.

Today you would want to check also the MiniVivaldi. It has a dual boiler like most commercial machines, one for steam and one "group boiler". Unlike the old Vivaldi this one doesn't have to be plumbed. It doesn't make better espresso than the Andreja premium but the steam is better because it uses a separate boiler for it. It is not as fancy looking as the Andreja, though. The MiniVivaldi would be a better and more practical option for a small office, probably.

www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/minivivaldi

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