Quote:
Over 23 years, a cap-and-trade plan would slash $9.4 trillion from GDP and kill 2.5 million jobs. It would hike gasoline prices by 58%, or $1.40 a gallon. Home electricity rates would soar 90%.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=507611

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-science/20091016/AA.Antarctica.Global.Warming/

That, on the other hand, is entirely ok, and doesn't represent any kind of problem?

What's interesting is how the rightie scaremongers take the most lunatic-fringe estimate, and post it as representative of the best that can happen. It's just more of WIN AT ALL COSTS, just like the whackos who are blabbing on about "death panels" and "rationed medicine", when in fact the "death panel" already exists at your insurance company, and the rationing is already there via economics.

It's WIN AT ALL COSTS. The rightie control-freaks who demand that we accept their islamic-style sharia law, only of the old-Testament loonie-fundie varity want to take us back to the same state that Afghanistan is in right now, and they will do ANYTHING because they are IN TO WIN.

Why does the religious right hate America? Why would anybody support their attempt to start another dark age?

Quote:
I think you will find cap and tax even less popular than the health care scam...Americans do not want this crap...but the left does.

Classic rightie crap up there, indeed. Americans are not liberals, the left is not good americans, wanting people to be healthy is a scam, and popularity trumps science, we can wish away global climate shifts.

Why does the right hate America AND the rest of the world?

Now, if you said "China will never do this" you would have a sensible leg to argue from. But you didn't. You picked up an obviously dishonest, slanted article, cited it, and then launched into wholesale rightie scaremongering.

You know, if you said about blacks what you say about the left, people would call you a racist. The fact that you can get away with such disgusting, obscene prejudice is evidence of how far toward Weimar Germany we have gone.

This isn't "scaremongering", it's applying economic modeling to proposed legislation. The following is from the CBO's 10/14/09 report, showing the average gain or loss in household purchasing power from the Cap-and-Trade proposal:
Lowest Quintile $355
SEcond Quintile $(300)
Middle Quintile $(590)
Fourth Quintile $(795)
Highest Quitile $(1,360)

This new tax, in isolation, might be bearable, with relatively low negative impact on the economy, IF those losing jobs are fluid and move to other industries. Unfortunately, that'll unlikely be the case. There'll be tons of unintended consequences.

Unfortunately, when combined with the various "bailout" and "stimulas" packages AND the almost trillion-dollar (per the CBO) health care debacle, the drag on the economy will be HUGE. Congress is acting like a whore with a free, unlimited credit card to Fredericks of Hollywood. Problem is, someone has to pay the bill and we're not even stopping to add up the subtotals as we launch headlong into one venture after the other.

Dave

jj
"Why does the religious right hate America? Why would anybody support their attempt to start another dark age? "

If you really believe this statement, then the left scares me more than I have ever imagined. It is a shame that even your Supreme Court Justices can't dress themselves! My guess is that her cell phone will on all the times with a direct line to the White House waiting for instructions.

Quote:
jj
"Why does the religious right hate America? Why would anybody support their attempt to start another dark age? "

If you really believe this statement, then the left scares me more than I have ever imagined. It is a shame that even your Supreme Court Justices can't dress themselves! My guess is that her cell phone will on all the times with a direct line to the White House waiting for instructions.

I see, anyone who doesn't bow to the religious right is guilty of "cell phone .... white house ...".

You mean like when the Supreme Court gave the presidency away to 'W'?

Yeah, somebody seems to have a line there.

This country was founded in the theory of the enlightenment. It was designed to avoid religious totalitarianism of the kind we see today in everything from Blue Laws to anti-Gay legislation, anti-Women's Rights people who opposed (and still oppose) the ERA, etc.

The record is clear, isn't it? The religious right has been trying to take over this country with all sorts of lies, from the "creation science" fraud to the idea that "Atheists can be neither patriots nor good americans, this is one nation under god". (George H.W. Bush)

And you think I'm from the LEFT?

Hey, chump, I'm a MODERATE. It's a MODERATE you're calling the "left".

The present left was the 1970's RIGHT. If you can't see the evil that the religious right would do to this country, then you're one of their dupes and/or fellow travellers.

Why do you support this un-American activity?

Somebody really dimpled your chad, didn't they? Wow.

You keep watching this White House and compare all they are attempting to do all the former White House's put together, collectively they will pale in comparison.

An absolute mess of a health care bill, and how you can even bring up the Supreme Court when they were unwilling to even address your presiden't birth right? There is a new legislative branch of government and it is called the Supreme Court. It all started with the lie that was Row V Wade with a full recant by you know who, but let's not let the truth get in the way.

Now the new entitlement is DSL for all from the FCC. Really? I don't recall my grandparents getting a free radio from the government. I don't reall my parents getting a free TV as an entitlement, but all must have free internet, and yes, that is where this is headed. A vote is a vote, no matter how you get it. We have a marxist professor even pushing the admin hard on this.

You are right, the bible-thumpers are the ones that really scare me. Why I came back to this place is such a mistake.

Quote:
Somebody really dimpled your chad, didn't they? Wow.

You keep watching this White House and compare all they are attempting to do all the former White House's put together, collectively they will pale in comparison.

An absolute mess of a health care bill, and how you can even bring up the Supreme Court when they were unwilling to even address your presiden't birth right? There is a new legislative branch of government and it is called the Supreme Court. It all started with the lie that was Row V Wade with a full recant by you know who, but let's not let the truth get in the way.

Now the new entitlement is DSL for all from the FCC. Really? I don't recall my grandparents getting a free radio from the government. I don't reall my parents getting a free TV as an entitlement, but all must have free internet, and yes, that is where this is headed. A vote is a vote, no matter how you get it. We have a marxist professor even pushing the admin hard on this.

You are right, the bible-thumpers are the ones that really scare me. Why I came back to this place is such a mistake.

I agree about thumpers. Luckily, we have many fine Christians who walk the walk instead of scream the talk!

Please, tell me you are not a "birther."

Birthers and teabaggers are pitiful hypocrites, more interested in vandalizing the country than accomplishing anything.

Anyway...

The Supremes have had a long history of leaning one way or another, so opining them as a new legislative branch is poppycock. Recall, the conservative Supreme Court allowed seperate but equal, slave ownership, keeping women from voting, keeping blacks from voting, yada yada yada!

The entire history of the Supreme Court's main accomplishments has been the evolution (if you tolerate that word...;)...) toward greater personal freedoms and more transparent government.

Other than your disdain for Roe V Wade, what other of the prominent Supreme Court decisions anger you?

Heck, the Supremes created the Bush era for you! (Kidding on that.)

If you recall, the conservative Supremes were the ones who voted for the seizure of private property under eminent domain to hand to another private party (the Connecticut decision in the past few years.)

The Supremes and Congress gave Bush everything he wanted and look at the mess, which no conservatives take the time to acknowledge, by the way.

Health care mess is right, look at the cash Bush flushed into Medicare part D - how do you feel about that free entitlement program?

If things are a mess, Jim, it's bipartisan. By hating the left, you are only halfway home.

Back to Roe V Wade. How would you want that to go? What would the law and the punishments be?