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CECE
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Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?
Elk
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

So when are you selling your Legacys and buying Quads?

Jan Vigne
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

All that and not a word about the tube amps driving the Quads.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

NEVER!!!!NEVER!!! This guy probably never heard or used the WHISPER, that's why he has this opinion. WHISPERS, all teh clarity and openness of electrostatics, with real bass, and no electrostatic anomolys, and obsfurcations. Ribbon tweeters, take care of giving ya the stat high freqs air and sparkle. That's why Legacy knows best.Ribbon baby, Legacy, they know speakers.

Buddha
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?


Quote:
NEVER!!!!NEVER!!! This guy probably never heard or used the WHISPER, that's why he has this opinion. WHISPERS, all teh clarity and openness of electrostatics, with real bass, and no electrostatic anomolys, and obsfurcations. Ribbon tweeters, take care of giving ya the stat high freqs air and sparkle. That's why Legacy knows best.Ribbon baby, Legacy, they know speakers.

You're not that far off.

The ribbons are good dipoles, and the Legacy uses dipole configured woofers - all you are lacking is a better midrange.

By the way, what's up with the Legacy "Recommended Component" rating?

"Rating is provisional until JA can get them on the test bench?"

Will that change how they sounded?

Just what test does JA need to do to "allow" the rating to stand?

After-all, he allows a Class A amp that can't meet specs into the ratings - as an "A" product.

Did the broken CD player MF plotzed over get rated?

gkc
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

DUP, if you think "this guy" standing next to the panels, in YOUR reference web authority, is a guy, you need a little more break in before your surrounds get loose enough to tickle your spider.

Actually, Buddha gets the nod, here. The Legacy models have nice, smooth, extended tweeters. Unfortunately, 90% of the music is in the midrange. And that is where your poster-child goes a-begging.

If you want to hear a midrange that both projects and disappears (the toughest balancing act in all audio), visit your nearest Quad dealer.

I could also recommend the top Triangle models, because they do middle-C peerlessly. But, as much as I love their transparency, depth, and width, even I have to admit that the Quads have the best midrange in audio. Of course, they won't deliver sonic anvils upside your poor head, so you always give up something when you seek something else. Sigh.

I thought long and hard about the new Quads and my Magellans. But, in the end, I went for the greater dynamics and fewer AC plugs. And a bit more cash outlay. Still, eventually I will end up with a Quad-based system in another room. I can feel it coming. The Quads are unique in getting the midrange right. They have other flaws (and if you are thinking your Legacy models don't, then you need to get out more...), but, as I said, 90% of the music is in the midrange...

You confuse "real bass" with wall creak. Still, happy listening.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Time for the ear cleaning, there Cliffy, Whisper is superb in midrange, one of it's strong points. Once you go Legacy you don't look back. Another advantage LEGACY is it's abilty to play ar realistic levels. Electrostats are useless for levels of realistic sound levels, along with no bass, etc. Legacy baby, they got it covered. I know "real" bass and can easily define mud from superior clarity and definition. Using my own live recordings, which amaze even me, bass "detail" consider how that is so cool, every bass note clean, clear well defined....it's terrific when it all goes right, from the recording to playback....if you haven't been Whispered to, you don't realize how great it can be. Until the Helix takes over.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

"Guy" reference is to the writer, not the model.....since the "guy" has the views on the speakers, the model is ...well, standing there, and just confusing you Cliffy, you think she wrote the article, comphrehension ain't one of your strong attributes is it? Do you think Fabio really can't beleive it's not butter?

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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?


Quote:
Time for the ear cleaning, there Cliffy, Whisper is superb in midrange, one of it's strong points. Once you go Legacy you don't look back. Another advantage LEGACY is it's abilty to play ar realistic levels. Electrostats are useless for levels of realistic sound levels, along with no bass, etc. Legacy baby, they got it covered. I know "real" bass and can easily define mud from superior clarity and definition. Using my own live recordings, which amaze even me, bass "detail" consider how that is so cool, every bass note clean, clear well defined....it's terrific when it all goes right, from the recording to playback....if you haven't been Whispered to, you don't realize how great it can be. Until the Helix takes over.

From how we've seen your system, once you go Legacy, you go buy an equalizer!

.
.
.X
..X
...X
.....X
.......X
.........XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
........................

Nice settings.

gkc
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

DUP, I think we can infer from all your posts that you have never been inside a concert hall, in front of a 120-member symphony orchestra, playing, say, a Mahler symphony, a Bartok suite or set of variations, or a Stravinsky Ballet, just to name a few possibilities. You won't spend more than 20 bucks on wire, so how could we infer that you would spend 120 bucks for a center seat at the Lincoln Center, row 5-15? Every "live" experience you refer to has "professional" sound reinforcement. I, too, love jazz and R&B, and, yes, there are probably hundreds of components, including your beloved Legacy speakers and Van Alstine amps, that will adequately recreate the boxed and amped "live" experiences you occasionally refer to. But you don't KNOW "midrange" until you have been parked front and center with the (relatively, these days...) undoctored sonic spectacle of 120 musicians, at the top of their class, blowin', sawin', and poundin' out the Mahler 5th. You just have to have been there. There is no evidence, from your posts, that you ever have.

Recreating the memory of the live experience of a symphony orchestra is the toughest job a system has to do. Unfortunately for me, that is my favorite musical experience. So, I have to be a bit more, er, demanding than you. Your Whispers are inoffensive and certainly wide-range. But they cannot capture the midrange magic of a full orchestral performance. They are laid-back and muted in the midrange. They ARE articulate, but not exciting, like the real thing. The Quads, at a mere 80% of the decibels your honkin' noise machine is capable of belching out, are more alive and exciting than you could ever imagine. Because, apparently, you have never heard the real thing.

So, dust off your credit card and book some tickets. You would be surprised what real music sounds like. Again, I love the music you love. More pertinent to this discussion, I love the music you apparently don't hear. Or you wouldn't make the absurd claims you consistently make.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Ever checkout a recording studio? Wonder what all those buttons and crotls do? Manipulate the sound, to make it do what the person in charge decides he /she wants. If you think you are not listening to sounds that have been manipulated, equalized, enhanced, moved up here a little over here some, you are really being very dopey. Even a live stuido recording, those old DD from Sheffield, had all kinds of electrical manipulation to teh signal before it got recorded, every mic pre amp has it;'s own sound, picked to give what ever someone decides is the sound they want today. Since good playback stuff can be very nuetral, it can and does respond to any manipulation ya give it, since it really has none of it's own stcuk sound adding it's own flavor to everything, modern electronics, can manipulate anything to any thing, do you really think your recorded stuff is not. Any live recording event is work to get it right, every place has different acoustics, mic placements etc all make it sound different, if you think the sound on the recording isn't made to sound liek whatever luck, or personal preference of the person in charge. Ever see a mixing console, it'll change anything to anything, whatever ya want. So your space is perfectly designed acoustically, you need no correction, everything is just so well defined, that yopru speakers, are set so perfect, you hear everything that was put on the recording, of course YOUR electronics is so nuetral, your room so acoustically fine, you know for a fact, you are hearing what went on at some live recording event. i can walk from one side of a stage and to the otehr side, and it sounds entriely different, at the live event!!! How do you reconcile that on your playback, you have it just so? Which position are you listening too? How come you can have 5 recordings of teh same event and it sounds different? Which one is the LIVE, real one....You can recall what a live drum cymbal or snare sounds like, or a wailing guitar, Violins and TUBAS are not the only thing that is somehow some reference for reproduction, hardly. It's actually kinda dumb to try and make a 120 piece orchestra playback in your living room, when you know it will never sound like a large hall, logic says, 120 peopel can't fit in here, how could it sound like a large hall. BUT it is very practical to envision a 4 piece band drums, keybaord, bass guitar playing in a room.....that is a reference to try and reproduce that is locigal, stuff a 120 piece orchestra in your living room, just seems DUMB, unless you live in some auditorium?
Legacy/VanAlstine getting you so close, for so much less. Electric acoustic guitar recorded properly, can sound like a live guitar playing at home, cus' it is very possible, for that to actually happen, now go get the 120 piece stuff into your closet and see what that sounds like

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Actually Whisper's midrange is one of it's strong points, you obviously never heard good midrange, or you would now real. A set of electrostats are no way gonna deliver the impact, SLAM, dynamics at concert hall levels, before they start to snap arc and fail. RIBBONS, using modern materials, as material science keeps bring better and better stuff. www.slsloudspeakers.com

gkc
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

DUP, you evade the point. So I "obviously never heard good midrange..." Or I "...would now real." Whatever that means.

You still haven't told us when you attended your last concert, sitting in good seats (row 5-15, centered within 6 seats), with a major symphony orchestra (you're a New Yorker -- no excuses, now...) playing full-dynamics music.

DUP, you don't know what great mid-range sounds like.

As for your reply to Buddha? You missed the point. Equalized sound makes the best out of a bad situation. If you must equalize, you have a bad sonic situation, and you are trying to doctor it up from miserable to tolerable. You are still stuck in Plato's cave, as we all are, but merely further back than the rest of us.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Actually every week I get LIVE music, woulda' been tonight if I didn't work till 9:30 tonight and get in too late. Lotsa live reference, every week, record it too....ya would be amazed how gooooood it sounds. 5th row, dude, I'm 5 feet from the live musicans...what you talking bout' Willis?

Welshsox
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

DUP

Stop waffling, answer the question ?

Is your mind strictly limited to a live guitar ?

Alan

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Nope, some B3 Organ, some great drums, and nice bass patterns, bass, that is decerible, not mush, blur, whomp. It's out there. No bassoon, no flutes. Some standup bass is cool. Electric violin. Why does it take 120 musicans to make some music, when many times a simple 4 piece band can completly make magic and fill a room with incredible sounds. Maybe 120 piece orchestras need to downsize and become more efficient? Do more with less. Who hire 120 piece orchestras anyway? do you know what it costs just for lunch?
Are you trying to repoduce 120 musicans out of some tiny amplifer, and driver challenged speakers? ain't gonna approach anything like what you think you have in memory. It's back to basics, can't possibly move the air, that all them instruments did at the live event. WATTS, DRIVERS. Try getting the exact sparkle, and sheen of acoustic electric guitar, even without drivers and watts. Can't happen.

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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

How would you know DUP? Have you been to hear the San Franscisco Symphony and then listened to their recording of Mahler's 6th? I thought not...

You tell us our reference can't work and yet you've never tried it. I've tried your reference and actually played lead trumpet in a funk/rock/soul party band for many years. As much fun as that is, you never hear the instruments in their natural state. Even in a small venue all signals are sent through a 50 to 100-foot snake to a not-so-great sound board, EQd to hell and back, sent back 50 to 100-feet the other way and pumped through either selfpowered speakers or mains driven by Mackie or Crown amps. It's a powerful sound, but it's loaded with noise and electronic glare. That's an average situation and there are exceptions, which I suspect that you dearly treasure, but with classical it's there 90% of the time.

Dave

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Even the best equipment in the hands of deaf board operators, can destroy the sound. I've been to many places that do piss poor sound, and they have good equipment. I've also been to places that have great equipment, and do the sound perfecto'. You have seemingly only been to places with poor sound. don't blame teh equipment, when teh people running it are deaf!!! Like a Porsche 911 driven by a nudnik, car won't do what it can, in teh wrong hands. And that recording you have of any orchestra ain't gone through hundreds of feet of equipment, and wires, what planet was that recorded on? Not this one. The delusion that somehow ONLY some orchestra music is the reference for live music is a fallicy. Lawrence Welk had a live orchestra, how do you get the BUBBLES to happen at home, without BUBBLES, you ain't got Lawrence Welk like it was LIVE. How are you so misguided that when they record orchestra, it ain't going through lotsa electronics and ckts? Feets and feets of WIRE. And of course every musican was in teh PERFECT placement, and didn't move off his mic so everything was PERFECT. Are you for real?

Elk
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

It's easy to replicate the sound of an audio system amplifying the sound of a blues band in a live venue.

Of course an audio system with a lot of watts can sound like an audio system with a lot of watts. Big surprise.

So what?

This has nothing to do with reproducing the actual sound of an instrument.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?


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Try getting the exact sparkle, and sheen of acoustic electric guitar, even without drivers and watts. Can't happen.

Duh! Somewhere along the line you're gonna need a watt and a driver or two.

Brilliant assertion, dup. Keep'em comin'.

Elk
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?


Quote:

Quote:
Try getting the exact sparkle, and sheen of acoustic electric guitar, even without drivers and watts. Can't happen.

Duh! Somewhere along the line you're gonna need a watt and a driver or two.


I submit you do not even need a watt. Moreover it is rare for a guitar amp to have more than one driver. Why would one need more than one to reproduce this sound?

And again, it is not difficult to reproduce the sound of a speaker with another speaker.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Someone neeeds an edumacation, into the realitys of it all. I guess those Marshall 4 X 12 cabinets are just for show? So when they record your 120 piece orchestra, are they not running it through lotsa wires, ckts, controllers, mixers, then they take it back and tweak equalize, and make it sound like someone decides, that's how i want it to sound. So you buy the recording, and of course THIS is THE reference for how a home system should sound, but how do you know that how the recoording guy tweaked and equalized what he had is what you think it should sound like, it's what the recording guy decided it should sound like. And what mics they used for each insturment and section, of course everyone of these recordings are exactly what you have imn memory of what the orchestra should sound like? Only orchestras? Never a band of only a few people, since all the smaller groups have some artifical sound, according to you, but the recording of an orchestra is all just some artifical reference, based on who's ears? Actually reproducing the sound of some amplfied music, isn't all that simple, since most musicans choose which amp they plug into cus they have different tone, Komet versus Fuchs, versus Marshall, and what speakers they use sound different, so reproducing THAT sound at home takes superb stuff that doesn't aleter that sound, and what about who recorded it, and altered what he heard to what he wants? So only the manipulated orchestra is the standard? That manipulated recording, is just so perfectly manipulated, a boost here, lower this slightly, just like you heared, what if teh mics ain't in teh spot you where sitting, how can they sound like where you where sitting, if they where there, must not be a true rrecording then is it? And of course you know exactly how a certian flute sounds, and a certain piano, how do you know, you heard it from a distance, the mics are closer, can't be the same

Elk
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?


Quote:
Someone neeeds an edumacation, into the realitys of it all. I guess those Marshall 4 X 12 cabinets are just for show?


Uh...DUP...you do realize that in a Marshall 4x12 there are simply four 12" drivers? They are all the same big inexpensive driver. Hardly capable of producing delicate shimmers and sparkles of sound.

It's easy to replicate the sound of such a speaker with another speaker. In fact you can use the real thing: ~$400.00 will buy you a Marshall 4x12 (some with vintage versions will want more).

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Uhhhh, look in the cabinets, and they are usually a certain criver for a certain tone...either Celestion or Emminence....and they ain't all that cheap....they are picked for a certain sound/tone. Everything is simple. so some flute is just so incredibly complex? It's just a flute, easily reproduced, same as some trumpet or saxaphoen, they all make sounds that are easily reproduced, right, why is something in an orhectra so incredibly complex over some other musical insturment? One piano over another easy to reproduce...except each insturment has it's own tone, like different guitars, different pianos, differet violins, simple, just reproduce them all through a speaker....Besides teh speakers in a cabinet for guitars, most of them tube overdriven amplifeirs are all distorting differently, simple, just reproduce it...everything is really SIMPLE!!! But somehow, only an orchestra has some special sounds, that needs secial wires, and special CD players, but not guitars or drums?

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Simple, just some inexpensive drivers in a cheap cabinet.... only orchestra are special... http://www.fender.com/fba/

Elk
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?


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...they are usually a certain criver for a certain tone...either Celestion or Emminence....and they ain't all that cheap....


When you can put four 12" in a sturdily built box with casters and sell the entire setup for what little they charge - the drivers are very inexpensive.

This doesn't mean they are not perfect for the job they do, they are indeed perfect as guitar amp drivers.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

And they hold up to lotsa abuse, unload pack up, up the stairs down teh stairs, up teh ramp down the ramp...try doing that with some expensive home speakers.....perhaps they build them right, and ain't over charging so much. And they work in cold, hot damp, dry....they just keep on chugging along. AND they ain't made in China, all teh more expensive Marshall is made in England, the cheaper line is not. Most of teh drivers also take quite a beating, they can't crap out in a live performance, and they don't. Hmmm, well made, reliable, and priced realistically. how bout' THAT!!! Something to consider when "audiophile" cables and magic speakers cost the price of an Audi. Emminence and Celestion make a full range of drivers, priced in any realm, they ain't using the cheapest in some quality guitar cabinets. May not be teh priciest, but they sure pick the ones that work well. I think you just ain't used to pricing based in reality, not "audiophile" nonsense. Some JBL or Electrovoice or eAW speakers that can sure take a licking' are only a few thousand..and they are well made to take lotsa abuse, and keep on functioning.

Elk
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?


Quote:
And they hold up to lotsa abuse, unload pack up, up the stairs down teh stairs, up teh ramp down the ramp...


They do indeed.

One of the many trade offs reinforcement speakers make for accuracy and finesse. And why amp-based music is relatively easy to reproduce.

linden518
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?


Quote:
Everything is simple. so some flute is just so incredibly complex? It's just a flute, easily reproduced, same as some trumpet or saxaphoen, they all make sounds that are easily reproduced, right, why is something in an orhectra so incredibly complex over some other musical insturment?


From this statement, I am convinced that what's REAL is your hearing problem.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

You must be either brain washed, or brain D***. Why is it, that the sounds of some very expensive GUITARS and drums, are just so simple tones, but if it is off an orchesteral piece, like a FLUTE or Violin, it is now such a complicated tone...lotsa guitar amps are made for a certain TONE....just cus' it's electric doesn't make it something that becomes so simple. The mics used to record your tone superior music from an orchestra, have their own tone, which is why the dudes recording it, pick certain mics for certain instruments. Then the mic signal gets all kinds of PROCESSING, through feets of wire and variable controls. Your tone perfect woodwind section, your "acoustic" strings have now been electrified. There is no mystical superiority in listening or recording either some orchestra musicans, or some electric guitars.....either one needs REPRODUCTION at home with equipment that neither adds or subtracts what the guy recording deciodes the final recording will sound like. Top musicans can tell the sound of electrifed guitars, keyboards, these guitarists can tell almost what size strings are on some guitars, or what pickups are being used....why do you think only some orchestra instruments have such exotic magical tone, that is somehow THE REFERENCE?

Elk
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

The sound of a good acoustic guitar is harder to reproduce than a good electric guitar - only becasue the electric guitar's sound exists solely as what comes out of a speaker.

The same is true of an unamplified flute v the sound of a flute played through a PA. The PA version is quite easy to replicate.

The sound of a speaker is relatively easy to reproduce. The sound of an acoustic instrument is much more difficult.

This is not an issue of the style or type of music.

mrlowry
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

While the sound of an electric guitar MIGHT be as complex as a flute, acoustic guitar, or grand piano (I don

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Huh? So if it comes out of a speaker, it can easily be reproduced? Hmmmmm, a piano looses all it's harmonic structure because someone put a mic to it, amplified it? If everything that was mic'd and put through a speaker, wouldn't what you are claiming, make everything sound the same? How come ya can tell a Fender from a Les Paul, and then teh same guitars played trhoguh different amps, eitehr a Marshall or a Fuchs or a Komet, or a Fender. And if running it through a speaker did what you claim, why do musicans have all different thickness strings to tune teh sound of their guitar, heavy strings sound different than thinner bright strings, just as in a violin, you mean an electric mic's violin, won't have any violin artifacts, it'll sound not liek a violin? What spear are you used to using, cus' it must be a piece of CRAP. So if it "originally" came out of a speaker, it is easy to reprocue...ELK'S LAW....let's all remember that one, shall we. So why do studio's record un amplifed insturments, and listen back on SPEAKERS? Then they manipulate teh sound to sound like what they want, and call it a finished product, they had a real piano in the studio, they recorded it, signal running through 100's of feet of wire, switches, ckt boards......then you get the recording at home, and proclaim, now THIS sounds like a live un amplified instrument. This sounds like another challenge, you play an un amplifed piano, and one directly mic'd and then you need to find which one was amplifed, which one was not.....the sound of an electric guitar is not just based on the speaker in teh amp. you need to study how guitars work. If your claim was true they wouldn't use so many different kinds of woods, different kinds of pickup coils, different finishes, different STRINGS....you really need an edumacation in stuff. What about mic'd brass instruments, only which ones are hard to reproduce, you take teh same trumpet record one amplified, one not, the amplifed one, is easy, the one not is hard? What you talkin' bout Willis?

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Every Steinway can vary, so how do you know which one sounds like what? How do you know you are listening to a Yamaha or a Chickering, you mean you look at teh paperwork, then you listen to teh recording, then you know how it should sound, how do you have all this tone data base in your memory, Mr. Spock, or DATA? You mean Steinways are never modified, never use different strings, never get reworked, after say 100 years old? Are you two guys, daft? Only acoustic instuments, hmmmm, and of course everyone who listens to recored music knows what every acoustic instrument sounds like, down to the model!!!! But if it's run through a mic, none of it matters...since it came through a speaker? Do you wanna rethink this concept, cus' it doesn't make any sense........What does an acoustic Steinway from 1904 sound like versus a 1989 model, both being made on a Friday, with wood from Stan's lumber mill.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

And even electric guitar amps, vary in the use of different woods for the cabinets. What happens if a fancy acoustic guitar is mic'd and recorded, the recording dude has to listen to either speakers or headphones to listen to it, if he wasn't at the live event, how does he know if the musician was playing left handed or right handed, and what strings he had, in order to tweak the recording to sound like the live event

mrlowry
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Clearly your reading comprehension isn't really high. I openly acknowledged the fact there are variables to the sound of all instruments, including acoustic ones. My point was that electric guitar has so many variables that it is philosophically unknowable, while other instruments have the POSSIBILITY of being known.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Now let me get this, so an electric guitar in a room doesn't get influenced by the acoustics of the room, but a pure acoustic one will. Hmmm, the sound coming out of the amplifer or teh sound coming out of the sound hole, they both move air, they both respond to the string action, finger action....so because it's electrified, now acoustics have been negated? You just put Ethan out of business. And a side point, ya know how musicans can get the feel of the sound of an ELECTRIC, is when they play it not electric hooked up, they can hear the tone from the strings un amplified...so if your law says the sound is purely from the electrics of the guitar, all these pro musicians are wrong....and the resonance of the wood has no effect, you are wrong sir....if the sound of instruments played through a PA system are easy to reproduce, how come most systems don't sound like the live event? Flute hard, but run it through a speaker, then it's EASY.

mrlowry
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

I never said that DUP. In fact I did list room acoustics as one of the variables that affect the sound of an electric guitar, number 15 to be precise. Thanks for reinforcing my previous comment about your reading comprehension.

Don't put words in my mouth. I've NEVER said that reproducing guitar was easier than acoustic instruments. The point that I am making is that because there are so many variables in the way an electric guitar CAN sound that it is completely unsuitable as a reference to determine the accuracy of reproduction. So if a piece of audio gear slightly changes the tonality of electric guitar no one will ever know because the slightly inaccurate reproduction is still somewhere on the continuum of what an electric guitar MIGHT sound like.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it dup?

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=19890515

Jan Vigne
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it dup?

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=25336566

Jan Vigne
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it dup?

http://gizmodo.com/5016199/gun-unsafety-video-shows-exactly-how-not-to-fire-a-gun

Jan Vigne
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it dup?

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseac...31-7d3ecafc0c8e

Jan Vigne
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it dup?

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseac...31-7d3ecafc0c8e

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

I'm sure the slighlty inacurate tonality of a piano will also trick people into knowing it's a piano, you mean you have confused a piano with a trumpet, due to it's tonal inacuracies over the mic'd electric recording, never happened to me, you really do need to upgrade something, more than teh AC line cord...Honey, is that a Flute or a piano, damn, I can't tell since they played it over a PA system, they messed it all up....

mrlowry
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Don't try to discount my thesis by exaggerating and distorting it then taking it to an absurd conclusion. I'm not talking about mistaking a flute for a piano, and you know it. I'm talking about nuances here. If you aren't interested in nuances then you aren't interested in high-end and you shouldn't waste our time by being here.

Elk
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

DUP, try reading what's posted before replying. You are arguing with yourself.

gkc
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

DUP, you're arguing words, not music. Here is the drill. You listen to live acoustic performances, solo or orchestral. The orchestral performances tend to be more difficult to record, although this is not an absolute. Just a tendency. The only evidence I can cite is the number of bad attempts I have in my CD and LP cabinets, concerning the full orchestral recordings, and the (relatively) larger number of good attempts concerning solo instruments and small instrumental groups. The biggest differences, obviously, lie in the area of dynamics and soundstaging. You can get a solo guitar or flute into your living room. You cannot get a full symphony orchestra into your living room. Unless you have a helluva living room. Still, even great recordings of solo instruments have to surmount huge obstacles, in order to get into your listening room with some resemblance to the live acoustic event.

Here, we get into the area of illusion. The best semblance of a live symphony orchestra, from recording to playback, to appear to your ears in your listening room, must, by definition, be the best illusion.

All I said, is that the Quads project the best illusion of a live performance, through all these obstacles, that I have ever heard. My own Triangles are very good, but not quite up to the Quads, in terms of timbre. However, my Triangles are more dynamic, easier to drive, and easier to set up than the Quads. Your Legacy speakers aren't even in the top 50, in terms of the criteria I outline above. These are MY criteria, not yours. I HAVE to have some semblance to the live event. You, obviously don't care.

Enjoy your Legacy speakers. You paid for 'em. Do not confuse them with the best transducers out there for simulating the memory of a live acoustic event, especially when it comes to playing back full orchestral recordings. I know. They were on my shopping list. They didn't stay there very long. Now, they can reasonably reproduce the memory of an ELECTRONIC event, attended live. But that is an easier task. All they have to do is play loud. And your Legacy models will do THAT. So will about 2000 other brands and models

As I said. Enjoy your noise. That is what you paid for. Do not expect us to fall for your twisted logic. Some of us actually listen. Some of us actually attend the live acoustic events. Your diction and syntax have consistently proven woefully inadequate for conveying any convincing arguments to the contrary of what I have summarized above. Sometimes, I wonder why you even try. But, that is your problem, not mine...

Happy tunes.

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

Wasting YOUR time? I beg to differ, my nuance understanding is much greater than most. And I know the difference between nuance and things that don't really exist.

mrlowry
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

For people that know piano they can tell the difference between a Bosendorfer and a Steinway on a recording. Those are the kind of differences that I'm talking about. Those are valid differences that add to the experience of listening to music. If you don't think so then again I say:

YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

You ain't heard Whispers, otherwise you wouldn't be making such dopey remarks. Whispers are the closet thing you can get that is priced for mortals, that deliver live anything, whether it's electric guitar, acoustic guitar or piano.....how can you continue to claim that only acoustic insturments are teh defining criteria for what a reproduction is referenced to? Everything you playback at home is electric...the recordings are doen with hundreds of feet of wires, all kinds of ckts.....are you that out of touch with reality? How come the electric RECORDING of a piano is something you can hear the difference in but if it's an electric guitar then there is no tone differences? You can tell what piano was being recorded, by teh tone, of course any tone coulda been modified by what mics they used, what mic pre amps, who was listening to teh playback when they were finailizing teh mix, but you know exactly how it sounded when they recorded it, even though you weren't there. But if it's an electric guitar, then it's all teh same so it don't matter? What planet do you do most of this listening? Cus you are way out in space. Electrostatics like Magnaplanrs are deficient big time, it cannopt reproduce the full slam impact and dynamics of a120 piece orchestra, they will snap crackle pop, WHISPERS give it all, full range, you mighta heard Whispers run off a underpowered amplifier? If you even ever heard em at all, which I doubt, otherwise you would never make such statements. How do you know what piano is being played without looking at teh notes on teh recording? It's all electrified getting it onto the recording, according to your bizzare ideas. Do you also know what every mic sounds like too?

CECE
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Re: Is it REAL? Or is it hi fi?

www.legacyaudio.com Yeah, let's use some limited range Quads, rather than full size real speakers like some Helix or Whispers, some thin membraned obsolete speakers are gonna reproduce more than a full range set up....time to get a hearing check.....

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