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August 30, 2008 - 1:15am
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I Cant Recommend the RECOMMENDED COMPONENTS Listing
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There's probably a caveat that says, "check with your dealer for current pricing" Simple. Problem solved. Or, prices subject to change without notice, problem solved again. And, like when ya lookup parts for a car or stuff, it always says, check with your dealer for current prices and part numbers, subject to change without notice. Problem solved. I bet your airplane ride prices changes about every 15 minutes, subject to availabilty and more like, whatever they feel like doing this hour. subject to change. An April price list, is probably put together months ahead of time, and you use it in August, come on. And did the prices list the price worldwide? MSRP is just that, Suggested.....I think you have a non issue. Next item.......
I'll second what DUP says!! I'll be curious to see if JA responds to this & what he may say. Also, I'm fairly sure a lot of work goes into each recommended components list!!! Get real!!
Quote: "I'd Rather Know, than Believe." - Carl Sagan
Has there ever been a scientist more WRONG than CS? Not to my knowledge.
Back to your point, with the dollar being what it is I am not surprised, but we have been warned about Mfgs not alerting Phile about new pricing, inadvertant or not. We have been told about emails to Mfgs being ignored.
In terms of pricing I could name a few mfgs that knowing full well what they are selling and what it takes to make what they offer that a retail price of one of their items at $3200 IS rediculous, but I am glad they are back in the market place.
Another who sells a turntable at $1K makes me want to laugh, but I am sure their sales numbers reflect just how rediculous their pricing strategy is.
I guess one could say that I have no right to complain (or make a value judgement), yet when I compare what Rega, Project, and Music Hall (and yes there are others) offer to them, I know I am right.
I might recommend that Phile leave pricing out from now on. That is not their battle to fight anyway.
I agree with this, though I do not believe it is unreasonable to expect the magazine to update prices when they print the list.
Most of you said :
I guess you did not notice my mention :
There are NO DEALERS in my country for Ayre or VTL ( amongst many, many others that are also unrepresented )
Since 2 out of 2 Components that I used the Sphile RECOMMENDED COMPONENTS list were out of whack, I suspect that Many others too, need their prices updated.
There are several sources to get info, and when ANY source offers it, it carrys with it, the burden of being factually carrect and current.
Publishuing something and when errors are pointed out, its - I believe - improper to pass the onus to another source - the dealer - for the correct info.
NOWHERE in the RECOMMENDED COMPONENTS List is there any mention that prices are the historical values when the products were reviewed. Infact, every now and then, mention is made as to how the list has been weeded for out of date products ( I would have thought that would have held for any out of date info too
)
DUP, going by your logic of referring to a dealer, products are best heard at a dealer, not reviews read in Sphile. However, Its NOT always practical, available or possible to hear products of interest first hand... or atleast before making a short list.
THAT is why I read a credible source like Sphile, to give me authentic info that I need to draw out my short list.
Sphile failed me on this count, simple fact.
It needs to do better.
The dealer has his job cut out. So does Sphile.
Prices subject to change without notice, is so common, in any lists, articles. 20% so what? If it was $100 then now it's $120. $5,000 now $16,000,000 so what? Numbers never matter in audio, it's just how it SOUNDS? I thought that was the mantra of a real audiophile? And the other mantra, if ya have to ask how much, you probably can't afford it. And if ther are so many other sources of info, and there is, do you ever check prices on other sites, magazines. I see 5 different prices for teh same thing depending on where ya buying it from, an educated consumer is teh best customer, I found AKG mics for teh exact same model anywhere from $429 each to $369 for a certain model, a recorder varied by $300 off it "list" price, that's why ya shop around, and get teh best deal. Is this your first time buying stuff on your own....? Go check out car prices, they are like airline tickets depends on teh day, and who you talk to this hour. Why is audio again, so different a product, than anything else made for the consumer? For now on maybe the magazine will have a disclaimer, prices subject to change at local level, without notice or any obligation on our part. MSRP....suggested, ,means it could be anything. Look at the price sticker on the actual magazine itself!!! Then you can subscribe and get if for like $10 a year!!!
you didn't know you could order those components straight from Stereophile? I could have saved you a trip.
I don't KNOW that you're a fool, but I BELIEVE it's kind of foolish to undertake the expensive proposition of flying, lodging and attending two audio shows to buy mid-priced high end components, then be stymied by a 20%-30% price increase.
If that margin was so critical to your buying decision, then I BELIEVE you should have done more research instead of blaming Stereophile.
But I KNOW I admire your commitment to audio, nevertheless.
I don't know why anyone would want to buy a brand new preamp today as the state of the the art in audio has peaked about five years ago except for a few new CD players. Read five years old Stereophile's list of Recommended Components, then go to Audiogon instead of Hong Kong.
As we said in the heading to the April 2008 listing, the prices quoted were what we had been told by each manufacturer/distributor at the end of January/beginning of February. We check with every manufacturer whose products are being listed regarding current price and availability. If prices are raised subsequent to that date, then that is unfortunate but not uncommon given the current state of the dollar.
There are always some manufacturers who do not cooperate with our requests, BTW, a problem we also have with our annual Buyer's Guide.
Sorry you feel that way. The list is compiled anew each time and we check the price of every product and its availability. Every rating is reconsidered in light of the new products that are entering the list.
Easing the load? Are you merely trolling now? The Recommended Components listing is published _in addition_ to the issue's regular contents, as a read of the issue would have informed you.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
We do update every price every time the listing is published. We also say so in the introduction.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
At the risk of insulting you by pointing out the obvious, the prices published in Stereophile's "Recommended Components" are the typical US retail prices. US-made products will always be more expensive in other countries because there is now an importer mark-up to be taken into account.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
This is almost undoubtedly the answer to the gentleman's concern. The extra percentage is of course the importer's markup.
Yeah, don't shop for US products in Asia, if you have a choice. Earlier this month in Japan I saw retail prices as high as 300% of the US price for the same thing. I think that 20% or so has to be a relative bargain.
Of course, after a few too many $10 cups of coffee and $30 breakfasts, I didn't feel too sorry for the Japanese.
Dave
That is what I thought. I have never encountered a problem at the price levels I buy. Also, I find most dealers charge less than the recommended price anyway.
Welcome to the wonderful world of non-tracked inflation. Right now, everything I buy is going up at a rate of 10%-15% per year. Non-tracked? The government morons who "track" this stuff have digitized it. Chopped, sampled, puked up, spat and shat out, and sanitized it all into an official proclamation. Core. Headline. Hedonics. Equivalent rents. My checkbook can't tell the difference.
Fortunately, I planned for this...
High end audio? Watch the disconnect between MSRP's and under-the-table prices grow, as inventory financing and the search for higher yields on short-term invested capital becomes more and more stressed by the widening gap between Treasuries and corporates, not to mention SIV's, Auction Rate Securities, and the toxic "3rd tier" that we shall all eat, sooner or later. And that, folks, is one hell of a shit sandwich to leave on your counter overnight.
There is no bid on a half to two-thirds of this toxic shit. And the dimwits at the Fed and Treasury are going to stick us all with it.
Ever watch Bernanke close-up? Notice how the eyes twitch. Or Paulsen? Notice how his hands twiddle as his eyes widen? These are not involuntary tics. These are manifest twitches of liars who can only half-believe themselves.
Inflation is at 4%-5%. In a pig's ass. Only if you shop at your local dumpster.
I guess this is a rant. Well, back to the reality of audio. Never pay retail.
For those of you who complain about Stereophile's being too slow, consider your government, who are still bumbling through the late 1990's.
Goldilocks, my ass...
Not really. Hong Kong is a duty free port, and Manufacturer's Retail Prices are practically Identical to the US prices.
Also the prices I indicated ( Sphile Quoted & Current) are the Manufactrurer's Suggested US retail prices......
The price discripancies have nothing to do with Hong Kong Prices....
With respect, I find that hard to believe. Yes, it will help that there is no import duty, but the HK importer still needs to have an income.
No, you were comparing the current price against the price of the same product 8 months ago, which was when we checked the price with the manufacturer when compiling the April issue's listing. Blaming Stereophile for the subsequent price increase is illogical.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
You didn't do enough consumer research before going on your trip. Buyer beware. I mean, I did pick the low budget HK receiver based on the listing but I did shop around and saw differences in prices that didn't make me think Stereophile was incorrect. In fact, I did enough research to find out the manufacture sold rebuilt ones direct. I try to live up to my moniker.
All kidding aside but you made a strategical error. It probably would have been better if you just sent JA a personal message rather post it on the G&R forum. I'm no stranger as well to contempt prior to investigation. We all have been guilty of having more money than sense at some time or another.
Let's change the subject. Football season is starting up. [Image removed that violated Google ad policy]
I hate football. It's probably the most boring game ever invented... next to baseball.
I hate football so much, I don't even get the significance of this picture?
The Miami Dolphins cheerleaders brought the razzamatazz of the NFL to London. We think it's one of the best reasons to love American Football!
[Image removed that violated Google ad policy]
Can't we just have cheerleaders without football? In fact, let's just get down to the core and just have strippers. I would watch that.
"I hate football. It's probably the most boring game ever invented... next to baseball. "
Amen! I don't like football either. It's very rare to hear another guy admit that he doesn't like football.
I live near a city who's only remaining industry appears to be football[3 guesses] and every time football season starts up people go into a hysterical frenzy. A frenzy that is so over-done that is seems unhealthy.
I do like cheerleaders!
Football is The Heart Of American Darkness (along with NASCAR). The spectacle, the pomp, the hype, the macho posturing, the way fans live vicariously through their teams- the whole fucking IMPORTANCE attributed to the concept of winners and losers. It's the reason Schopenhauer would rather mourn than rejoice the existence of the world!
And what excitement compared to baseball? If you actually stopwatch the action from the snap until the whistle you get about 3 minutes of actual action per game.
Whereas baseball is the national pastime and must be appreciated in a much more subtle and complex context. And what is really cool is that a baseball game has no clock. A game could go on forever (I know, it just seems that way).
Cheerleaders are dumb. AlexO is right. They might as well be strippers. It's not a moral issue- they are just cheesier than hell. Like Elvis impersonators and velvet paintings of dogs playing cards. Yes, as kitsch there is a certain validity, but for what it says about our culture it's dopey.
When his critics asked H.L. Mencken why he chose to stay in a country he found so ridiculous he said, "Because it's the greatest show on earth."
But I do love America and girls, btw.
The counter will break, and the pile is very old.
Whut's a couple'a hunnert trillion between friends?
Quite the little pyramid they built with their offshore games. I guess the striking down of that 70 years old law wasn't such a smart thing to do. There was a reason it was there in the first place.
Git out yer forks, everybody!
Ever seen the 'stickman' animation of the explanation of the subprime market? Damn funny. But not. Cuz it's real.
http://docs.google.com/TeamPresent?docid=ddp4zq7n_0cdjsr4fn&skipauth=true&pli=1