Chuck-

I have the "Waltz for Debby" Analogue Production hybrid SACD/CD. I too notice the hard left/hard right phenomena that you mentioned. But I have heard other issues of the same title and they exhibit the same imaging. It's part of the album not an anomaly with that issue of the album.

I too noticed this and i believe it was an early attempt for stereo.Most Beattles albums were recorded that way.It is
a very annoying sensation.I'd rather listen to mono.

When highly directional microphones are used, in close proximity to the instruments, this kind of result is inevitable; unless the engineer blends all of the mikes into both channels to some extent (which obviously did not happen in that recording) .

One close-up mike was apparently used for each instrument, and another mike of some kind for room sound was on another track of the tape, which was blended into both left and right for room sounds.

To get a more realistic sound mix, you need mikes that are 4 to 8 feet back from a small combo, not six inches from the instruments, but in the early stereo days some engineers wanted dramatic separation that would be apparent even on your RCA stereo console, with the speakers 6 inches apart in the some cabinet.

For examples of some great live combo recording, check out "Jazz at the Pawnshop" or the Andre Previn trio live at Summerfest at La Jolla in 1991 ("Old Friends" on Telarc), or some of the Opus 3 label jazz recordings. Opus 3 does an awesome job on their recordings; 5-star sound in all respects and great jazz! (Lars Erstrand, Tomas Ornberg, etc.)

I have a few versions of these sessions on CD -- what you're hearing is the way the music was captured (for the most part, hard left and right.) You might enjoy listening to these in mono if you find the presentation too distracting.

My LP of the same recording sounds the same. I can't remember the label. I, too, am sure that this is how it was recorded/mixed.

Jeff,

Do you by chance have "The Complete Villiage Vanguard Recordings, 1961" 3 CD Riverside set.

At the bottom of the recording card for evening set one and two, in the Personnel, Special Notes, ect. section producer Orrin Keepnews scribbles:

"(EVANS right-others left - can cool left side a bit if nec.)"

After the end of that quote there is what looks like a slash then another word scribbled but I'll be dang if I can make it out. Knowing the collector you are I figure you have a larger magnifying glass than I and perhaps read producer scribble better.

RG

These kinds of engineered recordings can be disconcerting as we have grown to having the main performer front and center and the other players in an arc or some positions left to right with a good sense of space.

I found this to be true with a DMP SACD release by Warren Bernhardt. I had asked if his piano coming out of my right speaker was how it was recorded, which he replied directly to me that it was. Very gracious on his part.

The nice thing about the multichannel release is that I just switched the center and right channels of my SACD player and moved Warren center, and the bass player to his right. Now we're talking!

The way it was recorded by Tom Jung is the way they were positioned in the studio. I am in no position to criticize Mr. Jung about anything he records. His excellent work speaks for it self and I am a huge Warren Bernhardt fan. I'd buy it even if they put him in the back left channel the way he plays.

Many of us feel the same way about Bill Evans or Dave Brubeck. I have an awful sounding black and white DVD of Brubeck being interviewed by Bill Gleason back "in the day". Just to watch the quartet play is worth suffering through the audio.

Regards,

This is interesting. I have the Riverside disc and it is as you describe. However, on an Analogue Productions disc that I have (an old freebie from the now defunct Fi Magazine) the ensemble is completely reversed on "My Foolish Heart."

I actually prefer the Analogue Productions track and the background noise of serving drinks and talking keeps the soundstage together for me. I can certainly appreciate that some may find the spread annoying, however.

RG - He wrote "nec.)essary)" and put a small hash through the parenthesis just after "nec." -- it appears he used the abbreviation, then thought it would be better to spell everything out, and made the edit.

Chuck - I think when people refer to the sound quality of these sessions, they're usually marvelling at the naturalness of the tonality... things like the brushwork on the drums and pluck of the bass, which are beautifully captured.

Dang producers, have to edit everything!

Thanks Jeff.

RG

Chuck, there's no escaping this shortcoming. Orrin Keepnews was the culprit and no one coming after him has been able to keep all that was good about his recording and still rectify the extreme separation to any extent. Believe me, like others, I have a couple of vinyl versions and at least two CD versions. The music is great and the other sonic dimensions are too. It's an artifact of the aims and goals of the period - and, unfortunately not the only example.
Try the Ellington/Hodges great music on Side by Side and Back to Back and you'll probably react the same way. That, however ought not to stand in the way of listening to the really wonderful music all these recording have preserved.

Cheers,

Quote:
Chuck, there's no escaping this shortcoming. Orrin Keepnews was the culprit and no one coming after him has been able to keep all that was good about his recording and still rectify the extreme separation to any extent. Believe me, like others, I have a couple of vinyl versions and at least two CD versions. The music is great and the other sonic dimensions are too. It's an artifact of the aims and goals of the period - and, unfortunately not the only example.
Try the Ellington/Hodges great music on Side by Side and Back to Back and you'll probably react the same way. That, however ought not to stand in the way of listening to the really wonderful music all these recording have preserved.

Cheers,

Hi Clay,

Now it seems it is I who has to say that you have said everything just as I would have said it. Yes the extreme stereo separation sucks but the music is so good that I just forget about the less than perfect audio within a couple of minutes anyway. Same thing goes for any of the good old Louis Armstrong or Duke Ellington recordings - who cares about the audio when the music is so great. It's only the second tier players (and below) that need those perfect recordings to make their efforts become "classics" anyway. (And you know exactly which discs I'm referring to now, don't you?)

I certainly do know, Ralph, and like you I prefer to leave that bucket of worms closed. Good to hear from you again. Still waiting for your "best of the year" list.