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Welshsox
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Found what im looking for.

Hi

Ive been around the forum off and on for about two years now. During this time ive been constantly searching for a system that sounds like live music and not as I call it " hifi " sounding, that is detailed and polite but with no real energy.

Well ive tried lots of things, big speakers ( VR3's ), little speakers with subs, big speakers with bigger subs !!!, ive tried stereo, surround, CD, SACD, DVD-AUDIO. Ive tried class A amps, integrated amps, recievers, pro audio amps. Ive tried all sorts of combinations of the above and although ive had a good sound that was pleasant ive not until now acheived a sound that excited me, the type of sound that drags you into the music, makes you listen to it.

Well today I found that sound, the thing that provided it is a humble turntable. I bought a used Rega P3 to try as part of a new system to try, well ive been tweaking speakers and different things to get a good sound with the CD player, well im getting close so i went out today and bought some well old well loved music on LP. The result is an absolute revelation, the music sounds like music, not hifi, it somehow just sounds right. The bass while not deep has attack, the instruments just sound almost organic, the voices are so real.

Im not trying to open the old debates but this has really opened my eyes as to how compressed and undynamic we have become accustomed to in our recordings.

Yes the turntable is a pain in the ass to manage, yes the records pop and crackle occasionally but the sound !!!!!!!!

If You havent heard a turntable in a few years or never heard one, get your favourite music on CD and LP and take it to a good hifi store and do a direct comparison, you will be amazed.

Alan

CECE
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Re: Found what im looking for.

Actually, i just played a brand new Rolling Stones Japan import..and the SACD version smokes teh LP, teh LP is lifeless, dull, I don't hear half the stuff that I can hear on teh SACD version of the same recordigns. LP does have the nice tiny snap to chrrish and say, yupper, that's REAL, real crap. On a brand new heavy vinyl, LP out of teh wrapper, AND it's WARPED..... Brand new, I just opened it. The junk cost me over $30 from one of the online suppliers that advertises heavily, and i do buy a lot of stuff from, more SACD cus' SACD works, sounds better and doesn't crackle, nothing like home like 1969 when the album was out, it still sounds teh same, snap crackle pop Just like my original LP of the same "reissue" made in Japan overpriced, under performing. SACD, it is better

Elk
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Re: Found what im looking for.

Excellent!

Welshsox
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Re: Found what im looking for.

DUP

I would not have expected any other reaction from yourself.

Having been around the forum for a while it is clear that some people are into hifi for the music and some are into it for the gear, theres nothing wrong with the latter but im very much in the former catagory and if i have to put up with a bit of surface noise to hear the music then thats what i will do !!

Alan

Elk
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Re: Found what im looking for.


Quote:
...if i have to put up with a bit of surface noise to hear the music then thats what i will do !!


Although with a decent TT and cartridge there is so little noise this isn't an issue.

CECE
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Re: Found what im looking for.

Surface noise that is in a LP, has nothing to do with the cartridge or TT. I'll run it through the VPI cleaner, but a $30 Brand new, open wrapper first time and the crap is WARPED!!! High end, audiophile LP, crap!! Over marketed crap. I ain't never had a warped SACD, put it in it plays. How can you call an LP, more musical, when you are getting more music off the SACD, than I hear on the Lp...oh, you mean I need to spend $100K on a TT? $7K cartridge? So SACD is superior, costs less, no noise, doesn't wear, much cheaper, so far SACD is winning. I hear things that are nowher enear audible on teh LP...I seem to recall a test on a CD, upsampled to DSD on teh dCS DAC, compared to teh standard CD 44.1...ya couldan't hear the bells, in DSD right there. LP is a crap shoot, I have several that sound fine, not better, but fine, there is no continuity on them LP's....They still snap crackle pop, WARPED, it's 1969 all over again, but they used to cost $3.95 at E.J. Korvettes....not $30 and up.... And some now hundred$ The very limited few that sound pristine, no noise, you really wouldn't know if it was LP or CD, it's that quiet, only after 22 minutes, then you get the signal, it's an LP...pain inconvienet... there is no sonic superiority in an LP...it has limited dynamics, limited freq response....

Elk
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Re: Found what im looking for.


Quote:
Surface noise that is in a LP, has nothing to do with the cartridge or TT.


Nonsense.

It doesn't take great expense, but better TT/arm/cartridge combinations are much quieter.

dcstep
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Re: Found what im looking for.

In my experience, better cartridges are quieter than lesser cartridges. I've got 5.6mHz DSD and that's better than LP, but Redbook CDs are hit and miss with the LPs of the same recording most often better, in my experience. I think it has to do with care in mastering, but whatever it is, many LPs are superior to their CDs. I think that SACD and DVD-A equal LP, IME.

My records are not noisy and warped, but YMMV. Take care of them and they'll take care of you.

BTW, I'm an all format guy, given a choise, I'd buy everything in 24/196 DVD-A ("iRobot" is amazing in that format. My second choice is SACD, preferably with no multi-channel crap on there. Third choice is LP. Next is Redbook CD, then mp3 bringing up the rear, in fact I don't buy mp3.

Dave

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Re: Found what im looking for.


Quote:
BTW, I'm an all format guy, given a choise, I'd buy everything in 24/196 DVD-A ("iRobot" is amazing in that format. My second choice is SACD, preferably with no multi-channel crap on there. Third choice is LP. Next is Redbook CD, then mp3 bringing up the rear, in fact I don't buy mp3.

Dave

Dave,

That's a very reasonable approach to music buying but sadly the availability of most music is pretty much the opposite: MP3s and iTune-less files widely available, CDs also widely available but vinyl, SACD and high resolution DVD-Audio are for the most part unavailable or if available then way over priced (see the Linn high resolution download store for a fine example of getting hosed on the price).

And I agree with Elk: the better the turntable and cartridge the less surface noise becomes an issue. As for DUP's complaints about the quality control issues of "audiophile" vinyl, he does have a very valid point. It is completely inexcusable for a brand new, still sealed $30 "super" vinyl record to be warped upon arrival. I've also had a few "audiophile pressings" that were anything but - lots of surface noise, warps, etc. Is it any wonder that most people think us audiophiles are just a bit crazy?

CECE
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Re: Found what im looking for.

Surface NOISE in teh LP, is not from the cartridge, TT or arm, what are you talkin' bout' Willis? The SACD cost LESS than a warped LP. Vinyl is still OBSOLTE, no matter how much they overcharge..if it's so inconsistant after all thesee years, how come CD/DVD/SACD are consistant, how many warped optical discs have you had? When somehting is being sold as some kind of superior product, it should be, it's CRAP. I have the original Rolling Stones LP of the same recording when it was $3.95 from E.J. Korvettes from teh 60's, (you NY area people remeber Korvettes don't ya's) it ain't warped, and it is quieter than a brand new LP. The original is over 40 years old!! LP Vinyl is obsolete crap. Last 2 LP's I'll be buying for years. It's like the music companies are just trying to milk the last dollar out of an inferior product. When the same recording is available on SACD, SACD is ALEAYS better, ALWAYS. And ya don't have to flip it every 22 minutes, sometimes less, what crap. Actually teh Doors LP set is on B/O. THAT will be teh last pile of crap. It's on RECALL cus they forgot how to make jackets that are worthy of the absurd price they charged, crap is crap, no matter how much they over charge. And the latest Elvis Costello Momufuku or what ever it is really sucks, horrible soudning, horrible music. Another waste, over priced crap. 2 out of 2 . If it was on a $5 CD the SUCK ain't as bad, BMG runs lotsa sales on CD's.

jazzfan
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Re: Found what im looking for.


Quote:
I have the original Rolling Stones LP of the same recording when it was $3.95 from E.J. Korvettes from teh 60's, (you NY area people remeber Korvettes don't ya's)...

E.J. Korvettes = Eleven Jewish Korean War Veterans. Ah yes, I remember them well. They always had a top notch music department. I bought my copy of The Beatles "White Album" at an E.J. Korvettes.

Korvettes also had a very liberal return policy where if for some reason the record was defective one could bring it back and they would give you a new copy. My friends and I made liberal use of this return policy to get new copies of our worn out or scratched albums whenever one of us bought a new copy of the same album. We just switched the new vinyl with our old vinyl (put the old vinyl in the brand new jacket), brought it back to Korvettes and got us a brand new unscratched copy. Very handy, especially when an album ended being trashed while at a party.

CECE
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Re: Found what im looking for.

Is that really what the name meant? that's neat. It was a great store, had great music dept, mine was in N.J. Had all the stuff latest releases, priced right. Great selections. None of the attitude like Sam Goodys or other stores...you'd get a pair of new pants, then go and get some new music.....Before there was Wal-Mart, Target, Costco,Best Buy, there was E.J. Korvettes. But alas, all good things face away. Two Guys from Harrison didn't quite have the music in it.

bertdw
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Re: Found what im looking for.


Quote:
I have the original Rolling Stones LP of the same recording when it was $3.95 from E.J. Korvettes from teh 60's, (you NY area people remeber Korvettes don't ya's)...

I purchased many records at the E.J. Korvettes in Springfield, PA (suburban Philadelphia). My other favorite was Kresge's 5&10 (or five and dime). Great memories, thanks DUP!

59mga
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Re: Found what im looking for.


Quote:

Korvettes also had a very liberal return policy...

This is what helped kill the record dept in one of the Baltimore stores. That and the 8 track tape.

"Those were the days my friend, We thought they'd never end..."

59mga
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Re: Found what im looking for.


Quote:
Two Guys from Harrison didn't quite have the music in it.

The Two Guys, here, had a much smaller record selection that appealed to "older folks". I'd go there to buy records for my parents...Tony, Frank, Patsy, big band and swing. How I wish I had those records today.

jazzfan
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Re: Found what im looking for.

Two Guys was the discount department beloved by all people from New Jersey.

When the last Two Guys closed down sometime in the late 1980s the Uncle Floyd Show, another great New Jersey favorite, featured one of the performers doing a Bob Dylan parody and singing "The Night That They Closed Two Guys Down" to the tune of "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down".


Quote:
The Night That They Closed Two Guys Down
And all the shoppers were buying
The Night That They Closed Two Guys Down
And all the cashiers were crying

Funny, classic and priceless.

BTW, I did a YouTube search to see if there was clip of this song available but no such luck.

jazzfan
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Re: Found what im looking for.


Quote:

Quote:

Korvettes also had a very liberal return policy...

This is what helped kill the record dept in one of the Baltimore stores. That and the 8 track tape.

"Those were the days my friend, We thought they'd never end..."

Well this Korvettes was in Brooklyn and my friends and I were always looking for ways to "rip off" the system, wanna be hoodlums that we all were. At least the old-for-new record exchange was somewhat better than outright shoplifting, which the Fifth Amendment prevents me from telling you about. But I was young and rather foolish back in those days.

Note: like a negative equipment review in Stereophile, one needs to read between the lines to understand what I'm saying.

smejias
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Re: Found what im looking for.


Quote:
Two Guys was the discount department beloved by all people from New Jersey.

I have fond, fuzzy memories of Two Guys. I have an uncle who worked there for some time. I remember going there, and just running through the aisles, playing with every toy I could get my hands on. One of my favorite t-shirts was this red ringer with the Two Guys logo zooming by on a rollerskate, or something.

CECE
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Re: Found what im looking for.

Back when we had teh freedom, to run in stores without being called in as kids of unfit parents. Or cops called, paperwork filled out, kids and parents now taken off to court ordered supervision and doctors prescriptions for all kinds of made up mental issues that don't exist...it's called being a kid. Yes, Bring back 2 Guys, E.J. Korvettes. didn't 2 Guys morph into Vornado Realty? As they sold off the stores. Vornado was the house brand of stuff at 2 guys. WoodBridge had both, a 2 Guys and a Korvettes. I think when they opened WoodBridge Center, it took away too much business from them. Korvettes was so much better than Sam Goodys in the Mall. Sam Goodys was more expensive, and too hoity toity in the record dept. Korvettes was the best. I still have every record i ever bought from Korvettes, which brings me back to the rolling Stones comparison...Pristine old original versus new re issue "audiophile" version. Korvettes version wins....

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