THR33P4C
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Electrical Problem
j_j
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I am in the process of moving to a new apartment and I have encountered a strange electrical problem. When my stereo is on, if I turn on the fan or turn off any electrical device that is on the same circuit; my left speaker will crack.

The apartment looked really nice when I viewed it but I have noticed that the landlord probably cut some corners on construction as I have been moving stuff in.

I ran an extension chord to my power conditioner from an outlet on the other side of the room (different breaker) and turned on the fan, the crack was gone. I didn't think to test switching another device on that breaker but I think the problem is in the wiring on the wall with the fan switch.

I thought the whole cracking thing was strange because all my components run through my power conditioner. And also that it only came from my left speaker and not the right.

Anyways I have a few options...

1. I could move the rack to the other side of the room. However, my stereo rack is a real hassle to move (about 45-60 minutes to take down and resemble, not to mention re-leveling)

2. Run an extension chord from a good outlet to my power conditioner chord.

-Would an extension chord reduce the effectiveness of the conditioner or shouldn't it make a difference?

-Also if anyone knows what could have caused the cracking on the ceiling fan circuit please let me know.

There are a number of possibilities for why this happens, but some of them might suggest that you have a bad cable, or something of that sort. Did your try recabling the entire line-level part of your left channel, for instance?

If it was in both channels, it would be an obvious power glitch getting into preamp or amp. But I have to say that when it's in 1 channel it seems a bit odd, I can't imagine that an amp or a preamp would have a pin 1 problem only on one channel, for instance.

So first, check cabling. You are right to assume that this isn't right, needless to say.

If you have something grounded, you also will want to check grounding for the outlet vs. neutral return. THAT would be bad if it's messed up.

Needless to say if you're aren't intimately familiar with wiring, etc, don't. Just don't. Audio enthusiasts are already too rare.

Lamont Sanford
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Okay, it's the left prong of the outlet that leads to the breakers. Open up the wall outlet and reverse the wiring. Does the right speaker crack now? Good. The problem is with you stereo equipment. Check all your connections.

THR33P4C
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I have to do some more testing when I get up there again. My new place is an hour and a half away from home and I haven't completely moved in yet. I seriously think its the wiring in the wall. It appears as if the apartments were thrown together in a hurry. The ceiling fan control on the wall is pretty sketchy, and everything on that breaker is connected. Ill do some more testing on the other side of the room next time I visit the place. I will also recheck my connections. Where should I look? Banana Clips on the amp? That's all I can think of.

I still think its weird that an electrical pulse like that could make it through my panamax conditioner. I used to have a guitar amp that picked up radio stations when it was turned on. I think something similar is going on here. The speakers are powered by the amp and there may be some sort of stray current in the walls that is making it to the left speaker but not the right. A very mysterious problem...

I still need to know if running an extension chord is practical.

mrlowry
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THR33P4C-

Good to see you back. The simple solution would be to move the fan instead of the audio system

I'd also recommend implementing what I call the "poor-man's dedicated line." An audio system will sound better if there is an electrical line that is run straight from the breaker box to the outlet that powers the system. Obviously if you are renting a place you can't really get away with that. What you can do is to make sure that nothing else besides the audio system is plugged into the outlets that run off of that breaker. You won't get 100% of the benefits of a truly dedicated line but you may notice a level of grit being removed from the high frequencies in particular. Best of all, it's free.

Jan Vigne
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First I would want to know if the fan and the outlet for the system are on the same breaker. I suspect they are since the extension cable eliminated the noise.

Then I would swap cables out channel for channel starting with the source. Swapping right channel for left channel on each component might tell you where the noise is entering the system (if it is related to a bad cable) and should rule out whether the problem actually exists in a cable or even in the system itself.

There is a good chance the problem resides in the power conditioner and the noise in one channel is just coincidental. Work with one component at any time and, if the problem doesn't show up or stays in only one channel and then stays only in the same channel, put the system back to normal before you move on so you don't get yourself confused about all the variables you can introduce. Work your way up to and including the speaker cables and as you go along you should have an eye toward properly dressing your cables. Keep power cables separate from line cables and both away from speaker cables. When lines must cross they should do so at a 90 degree angle. Loosely bundle the cables in groups.

As far as your "options" go, your first option is to find out where the problem resides - within your system or with the AC wiring. Fans make noise, so do refrigerators and air conditioners and washers and so on. You might find the AC wire was retrofitted with existing older wiring and the fan switch was merely run from the AC outlet to save time, money or tremendous amounts of effort. If the prolem is in the AC wiring, you might have one set of options. If the problem is in your system, then you would have another group of options. But just jumping in to solve a problem you have not isolated is wasted time and possibly money.

Since the extension cable didn't produce a crack I doubt you'll find the problem is in your system or, if it is, cable dressing might resolve the issue. Another solution might be to reposition the power conditioner away from your system and combine that with good cable dressing techniques.

You might even find one of your interconnects needs to be reversed in its direction (swapped end for end) since manufacturters often lift the shield at one end of an interconnect. So, if you think you've found a bad cable, turn it around before you replace the cable.

An extension cable is not the best solution to this problem. If nothing else it will reduce the effectivenees of your power conditioner to deal with spikes and surges. If you can find nothing in your system that could be considered the "cause" of the problem, your best solution at this point might be just not switching on the fan when the system is powered up.

j_j
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Quote:
The speakers are powered by the amp and there may be some sort of stray current in the walls that is making it to the left speaker but not the right.

That would be unimaginably wrong, and potentially dangerous.

"Stray Current" that got into the speaker lines would imply some kind of very nasty grounding problem or the like.

If you're not familiar with the safety issues and/or comfortable with a meter around house voltages, I'd get somebody to come check if you even think there might be such a thing going on, and sooner rather than later.

I'd still check the various interconnects.

Oh, and are the speaker wires in the wall? If so, it is possible that there is a ground somewhere on one of them, which would be back to the first situation discussed here .

j_j
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Since the extension cable didn't produce a crack I doubt you'll find the problem is in your system or, if it is, cable dressing might resolve the issue.

Depending on the extension cord, he might have lifted system ground.

These things are (**(*& hard to diagnose from a distance, aren't they?

THR33P4C
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None of my speaker cables are inside of the wall.

When I first moved in I noticed that one of the wall outlets had been completely smashed by the previous tenant. I removed the cover and found that the bottom socket was severely damaged. For some reason I didn't think this contributed to the problem but now it seems like more and more of an issue. The damaged outlet is on the same breaker as the fan switch and the outlet that I had my power conditioner plugged into. I can have my complex's maintenance people take a look at it or I can just replace it myself.

I will probably head back up there within a week and make the repair and do some more tests. This is sounding more and more like a grounding problem. I do like MrLowry's dedicated breaker Idea but it will not be possible as I am living in a rental property.

j_j
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I can have my complex's maintenance people take a look at it or I can just replace it myself.

It's not definitive, but get yourself a 3-prong plug tester from Home Despot or Lowes, and see how the outlet is wired.

And then make them fix it.

Jan Vigne
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jj's correct about the outlet tester, it shows reversed polarity and correct ground or no ground conditions and sells for a few dollars. I don't know that this will resolve any problems but you should have such a tester in your tool bag anyway.

Have the maintenance people do the repair and then check them afterwards with the outlet tester. You do not want to be responsible for any errors in the wiring and therefore you do not want to be the one doing the replacement.

mrlowry
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Quote:
I do like MrLowry's dedicated breaker Idea but it will not be possible as I am living in a rental property.

THR33P4C-

I may not have been as specific as I should have. I understand that you CAN'T rewire a rental property. What I was suggesting was that you NOT use any of the OTHER outlets on that are on the same breaker as the audio system and that would give you SOME of the benefits of a dedicated electrical line. I call it a "poor-man's" dedicated line. I utilize it in my apartment and while it wasn't a night and day difference it certainly gave me a little improvement and it didn't cost anything.

commsysman
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Your problem is being caused by an electrical arc occurring somewhere in the circuit. You eliminated the problem by going to another circuit, so that pretty much pins it down.

The arc could be in the circuit breaker of that circuit (replace) or the outlet (replace), or due to a loosened connection. Expansion and contraction can cause screw connections to loosen; it is always a good idea to tighten all of the screws in the electrical panel at least every 5 years.

A defective duplex outlet is my first guess; they are very cheaply made and arcing in an old one is not unlikely, especially if the wires are just inserted in the spring-contact holes rather than screwed on. You also mentioned a damaged outlet?...duhhh...REPLACE IT...lol (turn off the circuit breaker while doing it...).

The fact that it only occurs in one speaker is very odd; are you absolutely certain of this? If it is so, my first suspicion is that the driver coil on one of the drivers is scraping or bottoming out when an extreme pulse hits the speaker; this could be the first sign of driver failure, or it may only occur under this unusual condition and the other speaker is a bit less affected by it for some reason. Another possibility is a bad capacitor in the crossover network of that speaker. There is definitely some reason that speaker is doing it and not the other, so don't be surprised if that speaker needs repair soon.

As for your power conditioner; the fact that this arc is able to pass a pulse through it and cause this event proves that it is totally ineffective. It is either defective or a piece of crap. This is precisely the sort of thing that an adequate power conditioner will NOT allow to happen.

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