Elk
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DVD-V and DVD-A authoring software
dbowker
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Maximum flexibility DVD authoring ware probably costs more than you want to spend for your little experiment, but Adobe has some pretty good programs for it. There are others too- all not cheap.

BUT!...What about skipping the DVD authoring ware, and just adding your files directly to the DVD? My player usually will just look at what's on the disc and play it- whether it's video or audio, etc. Most are pretty adaptable these days and will play anything almost. You might not even need a DVD- a CD-ROM might even do it. Obviously, this will all depend on your particular player and if you have some sort of software that'll compress (or not) music at the different rates you want.

Elk
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I have the appropriate SRCs, dithering software, etc. to convert any format audio file so this part is easy. This is the part I am very comfortable with.

I also have discWelder Chrome to play with (a $3,000 bit of DVD-A authoring software), Sony's Vegas, DVD Architect (DVD-V mastering), a number of others. It isn't a function of the cost of the software. (It's great to have some accommodating industry connections that will let me borrow some toys). Unfortunately, they do not have any need to do what I am trying to do and are not much help other than offering encouragement.

When you suggest simply burning the file to DVD what exactly do you mean? Are you suggesting to burn a 24/96 wav file to the DVD as a datafile?

I have no clue whether this would work but I don't think the average DVD player would know what to do with it. No reason not to try however.

dbowker
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It's surprising those packages won't let you author the files as you want them to be... Oh well. Yeah- I was suggesting just burning the data files right to DVD or CD-ROM and have a go at it. My last two DVD players both claimed to support Wave, MP3, Winmedia and a bunch of other media files along with normal CD, DVD-A and SACD. My current HD-DVD explicitly cites supporting all of the above and high-def audio files. Disc media is cheap- try it and let us know, if you don't mind. Good luck!

Elk
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I did a bit of checking. While many DVD players recognize lossy WMA, MP3 and JPG files burned to a data disc (especially if the player is HIGHMAT compatible) none appear to even recognize a WAV file, let alone a high resolution WAV (or any other uncompressed format.)

I don't feel too bad, given that even AIX records does not include high definition audio on its mirrored Video_TS.

Maybe I should try convincing everyone to by a DVD player than can play DVD-A. Authoring a DVD-A with varying audio bit depths and sample rates is easy.

<sigh>

jazzfan
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Quote:
I have the appropriate SRCs, dithering software, etc. to convert any format audio file so this part is easy. This is the part I am very comfortable with.

I also have discWelder Chrome to play with (a $3,000 bit of DVD-A authoring software), Sony's Vegas, DVD Architect (DVD-V mastering), a number of others. It isn't a function of the cost of the software. (It's great to have some accommodating industry connections that will let me borrow some toys). Unfortunately, they do not have any need to do what I am trying to do and are not much help other than offering encouragement.

When you suggest simply burning the file to DVD what exactly do you mean? Are you suggesting to burn a 24/96 wav file to the DVD as a datafile?

I have no clue whether this would work but I don't think the average DVD player would know what to do with it. No reason not to try however.

May I suggest that you borrow or purchase a Squeezebox or the new Squeezebox Duet and stream the various files through the Squeezebox. The Squeeze Center software is very flexible and will play back many different kinds of audio codecs at many different bit rates, the listing below is from the Slim Devices web site:

Audio formats

* Lossless Formats (Apple Lossless, FLAC, WMA Lossless)
o "Bit-perfect" CD audio streaming, with reduced storage and bandwidth usage
o Approximately 2:1 compression ratio
* Uncompressed formats (AIFF, WAV, PCM)
o Supports raw pass-through of uncompressed PCM audio formats
o Digital passthrough to S/PDIF for DTS
* Compressed formats (MP3, AAC, Ogg Vorbis, MP2, MusePack, WMA)
o MPEG decoding uses MAD software, widely regarded as the most accurate, most compatible MP3 decoder
o High accuracy 24-bit synthesis
o Supports all MP3 data rates and sample rates, including VBR
o May be streamed in PCM (raw), MP3 (transcoded), or FLAC (transcoded) formats
o Sound Check and Replay Gain support for automatic volume control
o Some formats may require additional software installation (e.g. QuickTime), depending on platform

dcstep
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I haven't tried it, but maybe you'll glean something useful from this.

KBK
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Elk: What was the name of that $100 DVD-A authouring software again? 'Metal' something? Metalworks?

andy_c
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Quote:
May I suggest that you borrow or purchase a Squeezebox or the new Squeezebox Duet and stream the various files through the Squeezebox. The Squeeze Center software is very flexible and will play back many different kinds of audio codecs at many different bit rates, the listing below is from the Slim Devices web site:

(...)

Be aware that you'll need a Transporter to handle the high bit rate formats correctly. See this post by Sean Adams of Slim Devices for details.

Elk
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Quote:
Elk: What was the name of that $100 DVD-A authouring software again? 'Metal' something? Metalworks?


Minnetonka Software's Discwelder Bronze
Great, inexpensive program.

Elk
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Quote:
May I suggest that you borrow or purchase a Squeezebox . . .


Unfortunately a SB cannot handle high resolution formats.

The Transporter can however (with 24/88.2 in beta).

Neither resolves the issue however unfortunately.

What I am trying to do is put together a DVD-V with PCM files with varying sample rates and bit depths that can be played on any DVD-V player.

I may end up burning a DVD-A, and bringing my DVD-A player to show specific people the differences between sample rates and bit-depths, but this isn't universally a good option.

Elk
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Quote:
I haven't tried it, but maybe you'll glean something useful from this.


Great reference. Fascinating.

Unfortunately it is limited to creating a disc of DSD files that can play on a PlayStation 3.

jazzfan
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Quote:

Quote:
May I suggest that you borrow or purchase a Squeezebox . . .


Unfortunately a SB cannot handle high resolution formats.

The Transporter can however (with 24/88.2 in beta).

Neither resolves the issue however unfortunately.

What I am trying to do is put together a DVD-V with PCM files with varying sample rates and bit depths that can be played on any DVD-V player.

I may end up burning a DVD-A, and bringing my DVD-A player to show specific people the differences between sample rates and bit-depths, but this isn't universally a good option.

Okay now I think that I fully understand what it is that you are trying to do. One question: How do you know that this "any" DVD-V player that you're going to play back this wonderful high bit disc on does, in fact, support high bit rates? It is quite possible that the player downsamples the high bit rate data to a lower bit rate, like 44.1.

dcstep
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Quote:

Quote:
I haven't tried it, but maybe you'll glean something useful from this.


Great reference. Fascinating.

Unfortunately it is limited to creating a disc of DSD files that can play on a PlayStation 3.

Yeah, but it's got me toying with buying a used Sony laptop to see if I can do something useful It's aggravating that Sony doesn't make the software generally available for either PC or Mac users.

Dave

Elk
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Quote:
Okay now I think that I fully understand what it is that you are trying to do. One question: How do you know that this "any" DVD-V player that you're going to play back this wonderful high bit disc on does, in fact, support high bit rates? It is quite possible that the player downsamples the high bit rate data to a lower bit rate, like 44.1.


An extremely good question.

I happen to have a DVD-V player that passes 24/96 via S/PDIF and the person that is most interested does also (we both bought players with this in mind).

It is very hard to find out what a DVD-V player actually will output via digital. For example, the Oppos truncate 24-bit to 16-bit, but pass the higher sample rate. Finding any of this out however takes effort.

The other issue, as I think you are mentioning, is that we need to know what the player does internally when it processes data.

Those DVD-V players that also play DVD-A seem, as a group, to natively handle the higher bit rates.

As a sidebar, it appears that most newer DACs upsample all data streams to either the highest common denominator (300+kHz) for processing, or pick some other rate to which all datastreams are converted. For example, the Benchmark either upsamples or downsamples everything to 110kHz prior to passing the data on for A/D conversion.

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