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CECE
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

This is why analog is better? http://www.furutech.com/news/FURUTECHdeMagNews2006.htm

Buddha
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

This is why digital is better?

http://www.venhaus1.com/rd2introduction.pdf

clarkjohnsen
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Hey, I just tuned into this topic for the yuks, and they were not long in coming. The title says "analog sound" and most everyone descended immediately on LPs and CDs -- although later tape did come up, although not (I think) digital tape. Anyway, right away the defenders of CD began talking about noise. Noise, on LPs. Noise, need I say? is not sound. Whether the noise comes from behind you, from beside you or from in front of you -- has naught to do with the relative sonic capabilities of analog and digital.

Myself, I happen to think that CD still has not been properly deployed, so most people do not know how well it can sound. Mind you I'm not saying it will beat analog, but it still has a shot at the trophy.

clark

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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

After a couple glasses of a nice Merlot, the hisses & pops from the LP become ever so faint. Kinda like you're listening to a good CD.

CECE
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Who can argue with such science in the Foo-la-turd RD2 disc demagnetizer? Just look at the logic and data to back up their scam. And it will also do LASERDISC!!!! How does a laserdisc fit into the thing? In that amazingly well written paper on the FACTS, it says in one line how the disc needs to be completly covered by teh coils, maybe their is the incredible shrinking machine option from Foo-foo-Turd Ltd. It's like the laying of hands from God when they demag AC cord caps, RCA plugs. Send me your love offering, I'll send you a green snot rag (aka prayer cloth) The big LP demagetizer didn't do LaserDiscs but this tiny one does!!! Did the Scully dude write that scientific paper? Sounds really convincing with that Jinglish or is it Chinglish? He should be proud to represent such a fine group of products!!! Foo-tech also says no matter how expensive your line cords or connectors are, they don't deliver unless demagnetized!!! Looks like they just canceled my order for the pair of $14,000 wires, I was getting so convinced I was missing the imapct of REAL music, cus' my wires where not up to it.

CECE
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

CD has done a rather fine job of out doing the LP. And for much less in price. I think according to teh Fremer report, we all need to be using that $100,000 platter and motor, otehrwise, we just ain't hearing how good the LP can sound. Cus the differences he heard where so audible over any other TT he ver heard. And i always was thinking man that VPI for $10K is absurd, now MF is saying it just ain't good enough no mo'. Ya needs to spend 10X more to hear what the LP can do. And more for teh cartridge, exotic wires, me thinks me knows why CD took off and was a big hit. Hmmmm.

Buddha
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Yup, cassette sounded better, too. That's why it was more popular than LP's. I guess you'd say it "out did" LP.

It's also newer than LP, so it satisfies all your criteria for "better than LP."

Way to go!

CECE
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

If age is the criteria for which is superior cus' it's older and more obsolete, Edison Cylinder must be audio nivana. If your logic sticks you be saying cus' it's new it must be no good, and if it's old it must be good. Each inovation in recording music has always improved eas of use with superior fidelity. But it now appears that it may have peaked, the masses want ease of use over hi fi? With iPod and other things more ease,. 8 tracks wher easier than LP, cassette eveoleved into hi fi with Dolby and still ease of use. CD Cd recorders, DSD evolutiuon. Better chips better better better. Perhaps now it's DEVO though. Has it peaked at DSD, now it goes down teh other side of teh slope? Maybe there will be DSD3 Over5Mghz sampling onto a chip no more spinners. It's coming.Why would have stopped progressing. To hang onto LP's as some sonic nivan is dumb, overpriced, and a niche game for some who can earn a living from being the oddball, who keeps harping on it's virtues. While audio science progresses, for better sound ease of use. That's called progress. Like car companies shoulda' kept building 1967 models for 50 years!!! MF and a few others make a living off of being teh analog freak-a-zoide. Liek a sideshow it's entertaining, but really has no merit. Does MF realize how many people he could have supplied with great sound, for that $100K ooops, much less industry discount, if he gave out CD based systems to teh poor kids in Africa, and maybe even Tibet? Now doesn't he feel guilty, using all that good money for one dopey TT. What a greedy selfish individual. AND every LP uses more ARAB oil, than a smaller PolyCarnonate disce for SACD or CD. MF is the REASON we go to war for oil. AND MF is the reason I pay high prices for gasoline. AND MF I think killed a seal, and destroyed the natural habitat of teh Eastern golden finch, in upper New Hampshire. I plan to boycott all things MF. Be it overpriced TT's or MF beer, MF wine, MF tv's MF cars. I think the MF industrys Co. is destroying civilization, with his TT nonsense. Then there is teh Ozone hole caused by MF talking all that hotair, MF causes GLOBAL WARMING!!!

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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Tham's article has some problems. The biggest one, I believe, is that by using real music selections from various formats, she completely ignores how the different mastering styles for each format can modify dynamic range measurements. But there are others.

Vinyl does have a shockingly high dynamic range - in fact, it's better than tape IIRC, which is one of the bigger reasons for direct-to-disc recording - but saying that its dynamic range is higher than CD is pure hyperbole.

By my own reckoning, Redbook CD beats vinyl in dynamic range, at all frequencies, by at least 28db.

martin_n
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Thanks for pointing that out. It

Yiangos
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

And here's some inside info.MF is involved in slavery and he is the cause of the destruction of the two space shuttles.Do i hear something about Nigaraua? rotfl

Jim Tavegia
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

The theoretical limit of transistor thermal noise is -136db. It is not the bits, it is the sample rate that is the most critcal part. A noise limit of 16 bit times 6 db per bit is more than enough. Sony did get that right with DSD.

CECE
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Philips worked on DSD, not just sony. Come on youse are supposed to know all. DSD is also being used to record, even for LP's AND since it is so good format for recording, it even sounds better on Hybrid CD discs when playing teh CD layer on a regular CD PCM and old LP analog playback. DSD smokes all. And why would anyonme put a vacuum tube in a CD player, still the Million dollar question. Heat the discs? Light up the ckts so the bugs can see where they want to net? Take a pristine D/A signal and add distortion to it, call it musical. and charge a fortune, when ya put it on display like a Hooker in amsterdam, WHY do they put tubes in windows on some amps and Cd players, it's a non functional DUMB concept...oh wait, it thrills those who like the glow, and it has to be a subliminal thing, it sounds better when ya see the glow. Tubes heat up the room, a waste of energy big time. DuMont anyone?

CECE
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

EMMLABS and a few others are 2X the SACD sample rates!!! holy moly over 5 mghz sampling rate. getting better all teh time, but they gotta lower teh prices on that stuff, Sell more, charge less. Maybe there will be DSD Mk II Pyramix is teh only software that'll do it all in DSD. If it ain't DSD why bother? And you hear teh improvment played back on anything using teh Hybrid CD layer, just from being redone through DSD, it's converted back to PCM and it still sounds better than teh old PCM only CD originals. It'll smoke any LP, unless the LP is recorded in DSD, then it sounds like a good CD. Even with the added noise from LP

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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

And if you really cared about global warming,you wouldn't be running 4800 wpc amps.

CECE
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Does analog sound better?....READ THIS!!! Speaking of global WARMING!!! Not better, warmer. So is it hi-fi or just another way to CREATE, not accuratly REPRODUCE? http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=26

CECE
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

4800W RMS with PFC from Furman Sound. Possibly saving a few mA hear and there. AND I recently had a new service in, with a new meter (non audio grade). So now I can truly hear the sound of audio electrons better. I had a new 200A service panel installed, so I can have an outlet for each component , and didn't use any audio grade wall devices or wires. PFC is via what looks like an AC motor capacitor in the FurmanSound PF-Pro units. Globaly warm, globaly cold, all depends on how loud I crank it. It sure gets warm, when I crank it for a while and the fans go high speed. I let the audio grade HEAT out the window, and pollute the world with audio grade HEAT!!!! Audio GRADE heat. It's mine, all mine.

CECE
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Ampex/BASF started it all. DSD changed it for teh better it is teh 21st century...can we move on? LP is dead, it's mechanical diamond grinding a vinyl groove into oblivion. http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=24

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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?


Quote:
The theoretical limit of transistor thermal noise is -136db. It is not the bits, it is the sample rate that is the most critcal part. A noise limit of 16 bit times 6 db per bit is more than enough. Sony did get that right with DSD.

I

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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

"This is simply because (apart from realizing an ideal filter) it requires that the signal being recorded contains no energy above half the sampling frequency (22KHz) There will always be some degree of low level harmonic content above this."

40% of the energy of a cymbal is above 20khz. Even at 100khz, the harmonic energy shows no sign of letting up according to a Stanford study.

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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?


Quote:
40% of the energy of a cymbal is above 20khz. Even at 100khz, the harmonic energy shows no sign of letting up according to a Stanford study.

Do you have a link or cite for this? I'm intrigued.

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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?


Quote:
40% of the energy of a cymbal is above 20khz. Even at 100khz, the harmonic energy shows no sign of letting up according to a Stanford study.


That figure does surprise me. I would have thought more energy than that would end up in the audio spectrum.
Even if this is the case, as far as digitally sampling an audio signal when there is energy at >2 times frequency, then the Nyquist filter will cut off the majority of this and prevent aliasing.
As far as vinyl Vs digital goes I

Elk
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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

As it turns out, there are quite a few documents discussing the spectrum of a cymbal; e.g., http://www.e.kth.se/~e92_aan/misc/musak.pdf

While there is indeed energy above 20kHz, it is dying off quickly. Very interesting.

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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Sorry, it was from Caltech. This article has much more info and measures out to 100khz. Other instruments are also included.

http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm

There are many links to graphs. Here are a few.

cymbal crash
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/13.htm

triangle
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/14.htm

clave
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/11.htm#a

rim shot
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/12.htm#a

french horn, normal
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/6.htm

There are many other links to other graphs.

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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Fascinating! Thank you, Thank you!

The cymbal has an astounding amount of high frequency energy.

I am particularly intrgued with the trumpet analysis. The instrument used is a large bore heavy trumpet, used for orchestral playing - dark, rich sound. The mouthpiece is a large dark mouthpipece as well. The harmon mute brightens the sound, but I wonder what a jazz trumpet with a small bright mouthpiece would produce. Or does the richness of the heavy trumpet result, in part, from all of these harmonics?

Very cool article!

Now only if us trumpet players were always as much in demand as we are this Easter weekend...

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Re: Does analog really sound better than digital?

Thanks for the links!

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