Yes, digital is better with a decent but wise investment. However, the route to reaping those benefits is in the direction of better DACs and higher resolution formats and not, imho, in the mechanicals.

Of course, my bias must be taken into account as I consider that high-resolution digital playback (including roomEQ and multichannel) to have surpassed vinyl playback for some time.

Like with anything though, the steps forward become more subtle as you spend more. For $1000 you can get a tremendously good sounding disc player and DAC and it will be easy to hear the difference between it and a $100 player. The difference between $1000 and $5000 will be there but it will be harder decider just like the difference between an entry level table and the Rega Planar 3 is easy to hear and the differences between the Rega and say a VPI classic becomes more subtle.

With 2 channel digital you are going to want a quality CD transport, a quality streamer and a great DAC. This is more that you want something that has good vibration isolation and plays desired formats for a disc player. For a streamer, you want the right streaming services and it should support MQA. And the DAC is what matters most as it does the heavy lifting. This is where you will spend but it makes a clear difference.

You can go with three separate units, Disc transport, DAC and Streamer. You can go all in one like and Oppo 105 that has a first rate DAC, is a fine transport and has streaming apps built in or you can get a DAC streamer like a Cambridge 851N or Marantz NA-11s1 and a separate CD transport or a great Disc Player and DAC like the Marantz SA-11 and a separate streamer like the Bluesound Node2. All methods will deliver superior results if equipment is chosen wisely.

SystemShock wrote:

Hi, coming back to audiophilia after 25 years, so I don't really know the modern scene.

And, I'm an analog guy, primarily. But that doesn't mean I don't want to know what's going on on the digital side of the fence.

I know digital recording techniques have likely improved since then, but back then, a good $500 table ($1000-ish nowadays) like a Systemdek IIX or Rega Planar 3 with a cheap cart would sound about as good or a bit better than CD, and a really good 'table like a Linn Sondek or Michell or Goldmund would just pulverize CD.

Still the case? (I assume both CD players and analog front-ends have improved since the '80s, but by how much for each?)

Digital recording techniques have improved in some cases, but the first CD I ever bought, in 1984, still sounds wonderful today. It was the first CD recorded by Delos, CD4001 (Nothin' but the Blues).

It was recorded using excellent equipment, however, while most of the CDs recorded back then were done with Sony CD recorders that were not very good. In my opinion 98% of the problem with bad CD sound is the players, not the recordings.

PLAYBACK is where the technology has not been very good in 99% of the CD players sold. The circuits used to convert what was on the disc to an analog output have mostly been crap, and that is why digital has had such a bad rap.

That has really changed quite a bit in the past few years. There are now quite a few affordable players that sound good. For $500 or so you can get a Marantz CD player that is quite good. For $1000 or so, you get some players that are very good. Better affordable DAC chips keep coming out every couple of years, and that is making a huge difference.

I was pretty happy with my OPPO BDP-95, which is one of the best in the $1000 price bracket, but it still was not the equal of my best vinyl listening; close, but not quite as good. The new BDP-205, which is coming out very soon, should be similar or maybe even better.

BUT; my new Marantz SA-1 player is a whole new story. It equals the sound quality of my vinyl, and might even be be better in some respects. It is so good that I never intend to ever buy another one. It does cost $6999, however.

I actually was prepared no more than a modest improvement over my OPPO, and was prepared to return it for a refund if that was the case. Instead, it took me about 15 minutes to realize that this was the real deal; the holy grail of CD (and SACD) playback.

Maybe in few years there will be comparable units at a lower price, but right now this is the one to have if you are serious about wanting CDs to sound abslutely wonderful.

I mistyped the model number.

It is the Marantz SA-10 (not SA-1).

SystemShock wrote:

As always, thanks guys. Bier, your comments on a digital strategy are very helpful, as are Comm's about the relative quality of analog and digital and how it's evolved.

Both angles are useful for what I'm trying to do, i.e. figure out what kind of system to put together, and how much to prioritize digital, and how much to prioritize analog.

Also seems like CD players haven't really improved much since last I was an audiophile, but DACs have.

But is the 'improved digital' sound pleasing in the way the best analog is, or is it just a somewhat better series of 'wow' moments combined with a strange lack of musical involvement and/or some significant listening fatigue, i.e. the '80s CD sound?

First, let me say that the sound quality of a player depends largely on the DAC circuit in the player, so to say that DACS have improved and CD players have not, is not only completely wrong, but indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how a CD player functions. The DAC IS the heart of the CD player. Better DACS have been developed every few years, and CD sound quality has improved as they have been employed.

My comment would be that there have been HUGE improvements in the sound quality of the better CD players in the past 10-15 years.

I bought an Ayre C5 player for around $6000 ten years ago, and it was reputed to be the very best at that time; it was certainly much more pleasing and accurate than most other players that were older and/or less expensive.

A few years later, however, OPPO came out with the BDP-95 player, which utilized a new set of SABRE DAC chips to provide an even more pleasing and accurate sound for only $1000. I sold my Ayre player after getting the OPPO.

Now, Marantz has developed an innovative technology that is a radical departure in converting the digital content of the disc to analog, and the sound quality is stunning. I refer to the circuitry of their new SA-10 player, which I recently purchased.

They basically convert the PCM data from the CD to DSD (the single-bit bitstream technology used on SACD discs) at a very high level of resolution, and then simply use an analog filter to produce the analog output. The resulting sound quality is excellent; I could barely believe how good it was when I heard it.

SystemShock wrote:

Also seems like CD players haven't really improved much since last I was an audiophile, but DACs have.

Not quite. What I was saying was that DACs have improved and that players have improved because of that and not because of their mechanicals.

The key to all of this is listen to different levels of quality. Marantz, Oppo, Cambridge, Musical Fidelity, Bryston, NAD, Simaudio, Benchmark and tons of other companies make fine DACs. Once you start researching these things people get caught up in what manufacturer uses which chip. Don't worry about chip type. It is all about implementation.

And finally, like anything in hi-if you set a budget and try and find a good value at that price point. Lots of good products. Find a sound profile and the right group of devices at the right price point and you will be happy.