Stephen Mejias
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Deep Listening: Why Audio Quality Matters
bifcake
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Great! Is he going to randomly pick out members of the audience to call them names and just to badger them? If so, I'm definitely looking forward to it.

mrlowry
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Everything is always in New York. When is Chicago going to get some love.

JIMV
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I hope he writes up the results...could be interesting

linden518
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Everything is always in New York. When is Chicago going to get some love.


When the Cubs win the WS, my man, when the Cubs win...

mrlowry
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I don't even want to think about what happened in those three games versus the Dodgers. I saw or heard (Literally) EVERY game last season and those were by far their worst back-to-back-to-back games. They beat themselves

Welshsox
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Hi

Two things

1 - CUBS SUCK !! go White Sox, i hate WGN everybody is a bloody Cubs fan !!

2 - What the hell is a "Philoctetes Center for the Multidisciplinary Study of the Imagination" ??? is that where weird Yankees fans go to lament Babe Ruth ?

Anyways as i live in Chicago there is a big difference between NY and us, NY talks about music we play and live it !!

Alan

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Great! Is he going to randomly pick out members of the audience to call them names and just to badger them? If so, I'm definitely looking forward to it.

The significance of that comment totally escapes me Alex. Is there some history of this kind of thing we should know about?

bifcake
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Yeah, in one of the threads recently MF went postal on one of the members here. He was just completely out of bounds. He called him names, acted very childish and was beyond all semblance of civility. I can't seem to find a thread now. Perhaps someone can link to it.

Found it! It's 4th or 5th post

andy_c
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Somebody might want to notify this guy of the event. I think he lives in the area .

smejias
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I am thinking of attending the discussion; seems like it'll be interesting and informative.

KBK
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The problem stems from the point that people tend to 'judge' things..ie, realities, things they might hear, see, contemplate or attempt to understand..by the limits of their intelligence, skills beliefs or whatever.

Which is patently retarded.

* * * *

Think it through, if you can. Please try.

Thank You.

bifcake
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Somebody might want to notify this guy of the event. I think he lives in the area .

I've done a quick search on Google and the impression I get is that MF engages in these types of behaviors as a matter of course. He did it with this guy, he did it with "Amazing Randy", he did it with someone else as well. He just engages in name calling, flurry of e-mails each subsequent e-mail being more and more demented. I get the impression that MF foams at the mouth so much he may be rabid.

For the life of me, I can't understand why JA allows this to go on again and again from one of his staff writers.

JSBach
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Yeah, in one of the threads recently MF went postal on one of the members here. He was just completely out of bounds. He called him names, acted very childish and was beyond all semblance of civility.
Found it! It's 4th or 5th post


What he claims may be true, I don't know enough about the chemistry of black LP's to say but HOW he attempts to make his point is completely over the top. I share the puzzlement of others here that JA or some other Stereophile executive hasn't slapped him on the wrist.

bifcake
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From what I gather, this type of over the top, foaming at the mouth, naming calling, rude and unprofessional behavior seems to be his modus operandi. It seems to happen over and over again and I think JA plays too loosey goosey with his writers and refuses to tighten the reins. His refusal to insist on a more professional demeanor from his writers amounts to tacit approval of these types of outbursts.

JSBach
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........I think JA plays too loosey goosey with his writers and refuses to tighten the reins. His refusal to insist on a more professional demeanor from his writers amounts to tacit approval of these types of outbursts.


There are other possible explanations. Maybe JA is being given h__d in the office broom cupboard?

bifcake
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I wouldn't know about that. I don't care if JA is getting a Hummer or a Jeep from MF, I think he's got to keep a better handle on his staff. Besides, do we really have to travel down that road?

RGibran
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If you have something to hide, the best defense can be a good offense. Me thinks he doth protest too much.

And as for JA, I don't think he has a clue as to what arragements his writers have outside of their relation with Stereophile. He obviously has no control. Yet he claims improprieties _never_never_ happen on his watch. Even when writers borderline outright shilling for manufacturers he claims it's just a case of over enthusiasm, which he would _never_never_ want to stifle!

Don't get me wrong. I have no intention to cancel my subscription. I understand the way business works. What shocks me is the way some folks around here hold these guys as gods and believe everything they proclaim.

My apologies to any I have offended. There are just some of us IMHO that are very skeptical of everything we read in audio journals, online or in print. Why some feel Stereophile would be immune is beyond me.

RG

bifcake
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You make some very good points. The only reason I can think of why Stereophile should be immuned is because Audiophile community is so small, so it's a lot more difficult to hide and put up a front as one would do with a huge base.

Editor
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And as for JA, I don't think he has a clue as to what arrangements his writers have outside of their relation with Stereophile. He obviously has no control.

My writers give me their word that they behave with the appropriate integrity. I trust them in the same way that I trust their judgments on sound quality. To someone as cynical as you appear to be, that will not be sufficient, I admit. But all I can do is to assure you that if it emerges that a Stereophile writer has behaved dishonestly -- and no AlexO, I don't regard Michael Fremer's recent outburst as being even close to belonging in this category -- I will fire them immediately. I have done so with writers in the past, even though there was no consequence of their questionable and potentially unethical actions on what they had written for Stereophile.


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Yet he claims improprieties _never_never_ happen on his watch.

That is correct. The world of audio journalism is a small, close-knit one and it is impossible, I suggest, for unethical behavior to go unnoticed for long.


Quote:
Even when writers borderline outright shilling for manufacturers he claims it's just a case of over enthusiasm, which he would _never_never_ want to stifle!

Again you seem to be too cynical for your own good, rgibran. I urge readers to be skeptical. But there is a world of difference between healthy skepticism and the world-weary cynicism you display, rgibran.


Quote:
Don't get me wrong. I have no intention to cancel my subscription.

However, I fail to comprehend what you get from Stereophile if you are so cynical about its content.


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I understand the way business works.

With respect, you don't have a clue...

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

tomjtx
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Well, things are certainly heating up. must be the holidays.

So let's all drink some good cheer, get ornery and beat the crap out of each other on the forums.

That way we can be much less grumpy with the family

bifcake
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Quote:

My writers give me their word that they behave with the appropriate integrity. I trust them in the same way that I trust their judgments on sound quality. To someone as cynical as you appear to be, that will not be sufficient, I admit. But all I can do is to assure you that if it emerges that a Stereophile writer has behaved dishonestly -- and no AlexO, I don't regard Michael Fremer's recent outburst as being even close to belonging in this category -- I will fire them immediately. I have done so with writers in the past, even though there was no consequence of their questionable and potentially unethical actions on what they had written for Stereophile.

Hi John,

I never said that Michael Fremmer's recent outburst was somehow dishonest. On the contrary, I think it was a very genuine display that showed Michael Fremer's true nature: insecure, childish, rude and prone to temper tantrums.

Furthermore, it seems to me that Michael Fremer is in the habit of public displays of his genuine nature.

Monty
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Yeah, this time of year brings out the sharp knives. You see it everywhere, on the road,
in the stores...everywhere. Toss in a tanking economy and precarious employment situations
and it makes you want to hunker down and wait for sanity to return.

It's times like these that allow you to see the attraction of rural living.

gkc
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Alex, your Mantra ("Bring Back DUP") betrays your rhetorical bias.

I punched on "it" (what you found). It wasn't so bad. I think Michael Fremer is going on what he has listened to. Pure and simple. I think Buddha is going on what "ought" to be going on, theoretically.

So, Michael called Buddha a schmuck. Buddha has called others worse. And so have I. As the post (let's call it the "it" post, as in "I found it!" and shit howdy congratulations!!!!!!) proceeded, reason prevailed, and Michael just ended up arguing from what he hears, daily.

Alex, you are going to have a hard time building the case for a pogrom against Michael on such scant evidence. Fremer is merely a music lover who happens to write about his experiences with the equipment music is played on. And, he is merely passionate. And, he gets pissed about being constantly called out by non-listeners who claim abstract theories that deny his own listening sessions.

Michael Fremer is nothing if not honest. Alex, if you would write some of your own reviews, perhaps we could have a better look at how your accusing "honesty" measures up against that of writers who actually report what they hear.

Put 'em up here. We'll check 'em out.

JA, if there is ONE thing about your magazine I do not question, it is its honesty. And I am one cynical sonofabitch.

Of course, sometimes I question the "As We Hear It" op-eds, with their big-picture wanderings. As the great critic, Harold Bloom, wrote, "...reading is a lonely activity." Ditto listening. Listening will never be a performing art. But that is a different topic, having nothing to do with honesty.

For the nonce, keep on truckin'. Your writers/listeners are passionate about what they hear. That is all I need.

gkc
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Screw the family. They get it after the forum posts.

Merry fucking Christmas, if that makes any of you tin-eared assholes feel any better...

bifcake
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Alex, your Mantra ("Bring Back DUP") betrays your rhetorical bias.

I liked DUP. I thought he made sense, although I didn't always agree with him.


Quote:

I punched on "it" (what you found). It wasn't so bad. I think Michael Fremer is going on what he has listened to. Pure and simple. I think Buddha is going on what "ought" to be going on, theoretically.

So, Michael called Buddha a schmuck. Buddha has called others worse. And so have I. As the post (let's call it the "it" post, as in "I found it!" and shit howdy congratulations!!!!!!) proceeded, reason prevailed, and Michael just ended up arguing from what he hears, daily.

I never had an issue with the actual content of the argument. I have an issue with the way it was argued.


Quote:

Alex, you are going to have a hard time building the case for a pogrom against Michael on such scant evidence. Fremer is merely a music lover who happens to write about his experiences with the equipment music is played on. And, he is merely passionate. And, he gets pissed about being constantly called out by non-listeners who claim abstract theories that deny his own listening sessions.

Perhaps he should learn to keep his passion in his pants a bit better. It's one thing to be passionate, it's another to be belligerent and childish.


Quote:
Michael Fremer is nothing if not honest.

His honesty is not in question. It's his behavior that's the topic of the discussion.


Quote:

Alex, if you would write some of your own reviews, perhaps we could have a better look at how your accusing "honesty" measures up against that of writers who actually report what they hear.

Put 'em up here. We'll check 'em out.

How does writing reviews affect one's ability to be an adult?

gkc
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"How does writing reviews affect one's ability to be an adult?"

Hmmm. That's a tough one. First of all, you have to define "adult." Remember, adults typically exhibit childish behavior (depending on how you define "childish"), as well as wisdom beyond the confines of age-groupings. Usually, adults AND children foist the epithet, "non-adult" or "childish" against, er, personally selective criteria.

Second of all, being a writer means being exposed to all manner of relevant and irrelevant abuse. It goes with the territory. Yeah, Fremer gets paid. Probably not enough. If you fire abuse at a writer (or even a non-writer), expect a counter-shot. That, it seems to me, is simply human nature, adult and otherwise.

After all, "adults" blow up buildings, screw up the banking system, start and willingly participate in shooting wars, and both finger and praise the establishment in the name of all of the above.

Usually, the accusation against someone who, to you, is guilty of non- "adult" behavior means, "If you don't agree with me, an adult, you are not an adult."

I didn't see anything particularly childish, within the context of the above, in Fremer's comment. Hey. A guy HAS to be at least a little bit sensitive after being flamed repeatedly for merely reporting what he hears.

Maybe THAT is "adult" behavior.

Happy tunes.

bifcake
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I didn't see anything particularly childish, within the context of the above, in Fremer's comment. Hey. A guy HAS to be at least a little bit sensitive after being flamed repeatedly for merely reporting what he hears.

Maybe THAT is "adult" behavior.

Happy tunes.

Err... no, sorry. Calling someone a "doofus" does not constitute "adult" behavior.

KBK
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There is no such thing as an adult, unless we are talking scientific labeling, which adores the idea of creating black and white scenarios. Too bad it doesn't really exist in the real world, however much it may have (and does help) mankind in the long run. But labeling ain't the cat's ass. There are solid cases that can be put forward where anything can be found to be detrimental in some situations.

In the case of origins and base level conditionals of the human mind, labeling helps those with limited or lesser developed intellect or emotional development achieve a level of safety from the precarious aspect (to them!) of a universe that had the audacity to have no straight lines, no numbers and no labels of any kind--on any level.

These types of people are manipulated by folks with no scruples and/or possess low empathy, but that is another story altogether.

In this case, this particular phenomenon is used by the given individual on the near or total unconscious level, as the truth, ONCE AGAIN...being that the mind, on the conscious 'voice in the head' vocal formation level, is entirely, totally, completely RUN, wholesale by the unconscious mind. All thoughts attendant to the idea of intellect are formed beneath the surface or the waves of the conscious mind.

Things..or items of contention that are outside the given person's intellectual or developmental purview, are literally FELT OUT, ie emotionally probed by the lower layers of this mechanism before the intellect can begin attempting to decipher or understand them.

This inner construct that the intellect is based on, once again - is the lower layer(s) that are literally hardwired into the brain as a child. The intellect is built on top of that.

This lower layer fights hard to -and almost every time-, (when the mind is probing into intellectual musings which threaten the existing construct of intellect or 'design parameter' underpinnings) to maintain the given status quo.

This it does, so that new understandings which might threaten the paradigm of existence of that person, that might give it serious social, personal, professional, life leaning, etc, these potential understandings are given an extremely hard time, and many times these new ideas are given a very unrealistic hard time when it comes to proofs for that mind which has reached it's (basis/origins) limit.

The mind protects itself, and does it right in front of the conscious mind--the conscious mind being unaware that it has been manipulated.

The job of a developing human being is to realize these things about the constructional characteristics of their own mind, and how they can be manipulated by them. Not in order to further one's argument with others, no. Not at all. To further the development of the self. That is all. Fix yourself, then look at the world. Not before. If one looks only deep enough in the self to see (or imagine) the issues of others - that sort of thing is merely these underpinnings manipulating things in order to get it's own way - which in that case is an outright attempt to change the wold to one's own view to further the deeper part of the mind's own sense of comfort. That is the mark of an dangerous and unrealized person or being.

Note that this sort of 'unrealization' goes hand in hand with low empathy, and differing groups, like religion, political leanings, etc.

In the end, it comes down to a few simple things.

Some people hear the differences and can also go forward and explore such things, like demagnetizers and Schumann resonance generators.

This is a result of their personally developed intellect, and developed emotionalism, and their physical capacity to hear such things and mentally sort out such considerations within the scope of their listening skills.

Those who nay say and rally against such things as being untrue..are generally of a few different categories or possess a few of the issues I have mentioned. Or they possess all of them. Dup was in a large number of those categories, it appears. So are AlexO, and Welsh Hi-Fi.

Dup was and is intolerable and unpalatable due to his ranting about things he does not understand and for how tried to basically hammer his viewpoints into everyone else so the reflection of the world he received was to his liking. Bullshit of the worst kind--and he can't see it.

He can also be manipulated by that blindside. Happens all the time. Send the troops out with crosses in their hands, political party banners, uniforms and marching--whatever. When evil men scheme......

In essence, it appears that after repeatedly looking at Alex's and Welsh's postings..that both have created, in their minds, (unbeknownst to them) on the 'full realization front', that their minds, -their abilities and their emotions- have all gotten together and self created a protective barrier around them, that says to them, that other people that can do or understand things that are either currently or maybe possibly permanently beyond their skills..MUST BE WRONG AT ALL COSTS..as if they are not wrong..then Alex and Welsh will become very emotionally wobbly and will have to come to new understanding about themselves vs the world at large..and might have to undergo a mental retraining of some sort, which threatens that internal construct.

Basically, Those who do not hear what demagnetizers do fall into a few categories.

1: Deaf. either physically, the do not have the neural and physical capacity for such an endeavor as attempting to discern such a thing.

2: Deaf, and mentally incapable of understanding or dealing with the way the mind works, for the reasons stated above.

3:(x)(?)(I'm sure there's more. There always is)

As for schooling, University degrees and doctorates do not count here, in this arena. It has been shown that a decent memory function is all that is required for most university degrees to be successfully navigated. Illiterate but emotionally and developmentally honest people can easily hear these differences and do. No schooling of any sort is required. Like many audiophiles wives, for example. They have no involvement in the hobby and no emotional investment--so they hear it,and easier than most.

That folks do not get these points when they are shown to them, time after time, means that they have reached the point of outright dismissal--and that their rantings are of an uninformed mind and undeveloped emotional type.

Those who understand this post I have written--are not contributing negatively to this thread.

They left this mindless shit and drivel, long ago.

Those who do not understand...contribute. In their mindless ways, via whatever capacity they might -not- possess.

ncdrawl
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Quote:

1: Deaf. either physically, the do not have the neural and physical capacity for such an endeavor as attempting to discern such a thing.

2: Deaf, and mentally incapable of understanding or dealing with the way the mind works, for the reasons stated above.

bold words there...

1.)how about the possibility that the demags have no effect ??

you are stating it as a black and white case..that isn't a very intelligent stance. To call anyone who disagrees with the demag concept, or who cannot hear any difference "deaf" is , forgive my expression... fucking stupid.

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