Is the Pope Catholic??? Hell yes, we want your thoughts. You'll be listening to one of the very best orchestras in the world. I think they've had the best brass section in the world for almost 60 years and the rest of the orchestra isn't shabby, all performing in one of the best halls in the world.

Anyone that doesn't want to read about that shouldn't be here, IMHO.

Dave

Sounds like great fun. Your first concert review was a hoot.

I still think it's hard-core how Chicago courted Muti better than NY Phil. Way to go, CSO.

Well, he's a prima donna. You can google or wiki him & you'll probably get a good picture of him. He's best known for his stint with La Scala. (I'm sure his Verdi was fantastic, btw.) He's a great conductor, though, even if the range of his repertoire is conservative & limited.

Yes. Conductors matter.

Conductors matter a great deal. They control tempi, phrasing, articulation, dynamics - essentially everything in the performance. This is one of the things that makes classical music so fascinating. The notes on the page are just the beginning. How those notes are interpreted is the performance.

A great way to understand this is to buy and listen to two recordings of the same music which has been performed differently. Let us know if you would like suggestions of two good, but contrasting, performances of the same piece.

Do you have any CSO recordings when Solti was the conductor? I know the diff between live now and the "recorded then", but your perspective on the differences would be interesting.

Go Cubs!!!!! fan since 1952 and waiting.

You should have a great time. Don't let your analysis get in the way of your enjoyment.

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So on that front, is the orchestra more important or the conductor?

It depends on what side of the podium one is on. As a player I like to think the orchestra is more important.

Sometimes it feels like the orchestra v. the conductor. These experiences are miserable.

They are both critical. You need the best players who are used to playing together. They need to work together as a high-performance sports car, but with the added ability to operate from everything from a unicycle to a bulldozer.

The conductor works with the orchestra as an individual plays his instrument. The conductor plays the orchestra.

The conductor also has a great deal to say as to how many violins there are going to be, how the balance between the number of 'cellos to violas, etc. He may prefer a bright nimble sound, or a darker burnished sound.

It is not an Athenian democracy, the conductor rules - although many are willing to privately listen if you have a particular thought you would like to share. Generally however it is the orchestra's job to express the musical ideas of the conductor.

There are many conductors that make you want to create for them exactly what they desire. It's actually incredibly satisfying to play a piece that you know and hear it afresh because the conductor has an approach you have not heard or experienced before.

I struggle with recommending the best of any genre. there are so many great players out there. I will give you one however: I adore Hilary Hahn's playing; tremendous musical intelligence, great knowledge of the history of violin performance, great ears and absolutely charming as a person.

Vadim Repin is wonderful. Nice to have such high quality dumb luck.

The CSO will do great. Muti is a star and there will be a lot of wonderful playing. There is always some controversy when an orchestra gets a new conductor - usually it works out, although there have been some huge flops.

Muti may have controversies here & there, but he's a great conductor. It's a real score for CSO so don't even worry about it, dude. Enjoy your season tix, I'm very very jealous!

For a great example of the 'Muti effect' you might like to check out the 1993 New Year's Concert from Vienna (Philips 438 493-2).

Watching the concert has always been a tradition in my family, we all gather round the TV nursing our hangovers, and through the years one becomes very accustomed to how the old Strauss standards sound under resident maestros Boskovsky, Maazel et al.

Well I will never forget this concert, Muti's first appearance (he subsequently also conducted in 1997, 2000 and 2004), which was absolutely electifying. Sure, the VPO is one of the finest symphony orchestras in the world and can churn out these familiar anthems in their sleep, but they didn't, no way no how! They were WIDE awake and played with a quite uncommon verve. The ovation was one of the most rapturous and heartfelt I can remember.

Wonderful music making and a superb example of how a conductor can put his fingerprint (in a very positive way) on a familar score.

Great stuff Struts.

Dave

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On a seperate note, I might be totally ignorant on this front but it seems to me that the CSO is a pretty well known and respected group, a guy like Muti coming in and being a prima donna is just not the Chicago style and maybe a rocky path lies ahead. Of course im totally new to this so i might be totally out of line.
Alan

Don't worry, they've had their prima donnas in the past. You might say that the whole brass section was prima donna for decades. Reiner was no limp fish, nor Solti. You might say that Reiner really shaped the current sound.

This is a great organization and it will survive and continue to be strong.

You've got a good shot at wittnessing the beginning of a new era of excellence. I think that all the cards are well chosen and on the table. Let's hope that the hand is well played.

Dave

Very insightful, thanks! You've given an explanation even a dummy like me can understand! I've often wondered about the role of the conductor. While I have no musical training, I know what I like to listen to. I find it interesting that a piece of music can sound different when played by different groups. For instance, one of my favorite pieces is Fanfare for the Common Man by Aaron Copland. I have 3 different recordings of it & have heard it performed live by the local orchestra(Rochester Philharmonic). All sound somewhat different. I'm not talking about sound quality either.I suppose that is in part due to different players as well as different conductors. Not being musically trained, I don't have the vocabulary to describe the differences. Just something about the way it's played. Anyway, thanks again!!

Oh man, that Chicago brass will not dissappoint on the Gates...I've got goose bumps thinking about it.

Can't wait for your report.

Thanks for the great report Alan. You scare me when you type "teh" for "the", making me think that you may be an alternative personality of DUP, then I think "no way, this guy seems so sane."

Anyway, next time you listen to Gates on a stereo, listen for that bell. I'm always amazed to hear all the brass roaring and the percussion banging and when that bell comes though it adds to the chills. Amazing.

You're probably more of a Rachmaninoff guy than a Chopin guy. Hang in there.

Dave

Wonderful description and observations! It is a hoot attending the concerts along with you.

Finlandia has always struck me as an overblown throwaway.

Lang Lang is a great fun, regardless of what he plays - but I appreciate and understand your comments. I think Dave is correct - you either like Chopin or not.

Classical music goers are typically quite laid back - as long as you don't talk during the performance. I have always found amusing that rock types are often less open minded.

Your descriptions of layering sounds and "air" are dead on. For me flute and oboe do indeed surround the best players with a halo of energized air. It is the only way I can describe it.

If only our systems could reproduce the detailed subtlety and power of an orchestra. Then again, a good part of me hopes they never can.

Chopin's concertos don't represent his strongest writing. The guy clearly had a problem writing orchestral tutti sections. They are very uninspired in orchestration, almost placid. The Larghetto of the 2nd concerto is beautiful, for sure, but I know that you like a bit of flash in the orchestral sections, Alan, so I totally understand that the Chopin 2nd is not your cup of tea. I second Dave's recommendation for Rachmaninoff concertos, given your preference for dense & sweeping orchestral sound.

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and as such Chopin would be foofoo starbucks jazz !! theres nothing wrong with it as such it just does not stir up emotion.

Definitely not how I'd categorize Chopin. He modernized & revolutionized modern piano repertoire as we know it. Try his solo stuff. Since you like music with a little speed & gusto, maybe the scherzi & the polonaises. I like Richter with the scherzi and Pollini on the polonaises. The Ballades, you can try later, when you think you've developed a liking for the more introspective repertoire (although the Ballades definitely do have the epic sweep... I like Zimerman here, although Perahia is eloquent, too...) One of my favorite piano pieces ever is the Barcarolle (Lipatti & Zimerman).

Have fun at the Anne Sophie Mutter concert! Should be a dandy.

Hmm, very interesting. Thanks for the new view.

Neat report!

Many pieces have a fascinating background; the themes used, the influences on the composer, etc.

Ravel was an astoundingly good orchestrator. His ability to create tone colors is unsurpassed.

Did they explain that the walking promenade varies in meter in each variation? It appears five times, each version mixing 5/4 with other metres, sometimes regular and sometimes irregular. This is to represent the walker, the artist Victor Hartmann, for whom the piece was written. He had a bad leg and thus limped. He died young and the movements are representations of some of his works and sketches.

Yes, chamber music must be heard in a smaller space to show at it's best potential. Unfortunately when a big name comes they put them in the big room almost invariably, whether or not it serves the music. Chamber music in the right venue can be very emotional and gripping.

Dave

I really enjoy your reviews.

I just checked the program. It was nice stuff, but extremely safe and basic repertoire - disappointingly so. These are warhorses that every violinist plays and has recorded. I love chamber music, but unless she brought something truly unique to these pieces I could very well be twitchy.

Chamber music as a whole appeals more to the intellect than to the emotions. Emotions are expressed, but more subtly. Often to really appreciate what a performer is doing takes having good knowledge of the piece already.

Dave raises a good point. Chamber music is sort of like a jazz trio, much better when performed in an intimate setting.

Looking at the calendar there are a couple of different programs of Russina music. Are you going to the performance including the Rachmaninov third symphony?

My guess is that you will like it. Big, soaring melodies, vibrant, understandable structure.

It isn't like Pictures with all its effects and other fun, but rather rich and romantic. That is, it won't knock you over, but I think you will enjoy the ride.

10:1 you recognize some of the melodies. A lot of popular music is based on classical pieces.

Thanks for another great post Alan.

Maybe you need to crank your home stereo more. You can't replicate the dynamics of live performance, but I think you need to get closer than you are. When I listen to classical with a lot of dynamic range, the peaks are up over 100 dB. I find that if that doesn't happen, then the music seems flatter and less involving.

Dave

Your reviews/reports are always a great deal of fun!

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What i did notice though is that since i saw the narrative about Pictures and what each peice means im now starting to attach more emotion to the music. By that its almost as if im empathising with the music's message even though i dont actually know what it is. ie im starting to fell happy, sad etc based on the flow of the music,

I bet it is like learning to understand and appreciate any new thing. You are now getting the musical language of a symphony orchestra.

Those that market orchestras state that getting people to return is not all that hard. Getting them in for the first time is the challenge.

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I dont think ive ever come across a peice of music that sounds so different live.

...

In terms of the sound i really did make a physical connection to it, i dont know if it was just my mood but each note i could sense the air around it, feel the particular instruments harmonics etc.

My experience as well. At least for me, even the best sound system simply hints at the experience of hearing a symphony live. There is a certain effortlessness and richness that electronics cannot capture.

I also think that seeing the musicians and knowing it really is being performed live makes a difference.

P.S. Mahler tends to be a love him or leave him sort of composer. I think you will like his music, but it is dense and can be a bit of a challenge to get into initially. It will be fun to get your report.

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My next concert is next week and is Mahler 2, this introduces vocals for the first time and im looking forward to how that changes the landscape

Alan, Mahler is definitely an acquired taste, but the 2nd symphony is sublime once you develop a sense for Mahlerian music. You WILL get dynamism, I'll tell you that, but you'll also have to have a kind of listening stamina to appreciate Mahler, whose ambition for his symphonies was nothing less than to musically capture the largesse of life itself, as corny as that may sound.

It may be worth reading something on this symphony before you go, you know, make it a kind of a fun assignment for yourself. Perhaps listen to a recording of it in your system, too. There's a version conducted by Ivan Fischer on Channel Classics hybrid SACD that is excellent, both interpretation-wise and sound-wise. I believe the Mahler 2nd will be much more enjoyble with some context... a very different animal than the Tchaikovsy 1st piano concerto or a Rachmaninoff symphony... I wonder how the Chicago will deal with the off-stage brass... you can give us a report!

Also, who was the soloist for the Tchaikovsky?

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Dave

My problem is that i live in a townhouse, not sure how the neighbours would react !!

I live in an apartment, but with only one ajoining wall. (I'm on the end.) I do my "serious", loud listening in the afternoons and certainly never turn up after 10 p.m. I also play trumpet. My neighbors surely hear me, because the sometimes comment (encouragingly) about my trumpeting. Still, you must be sensitive.

You might consider some top tier headphones and a good headphone amp. Cans give you most of the experience, but lack the pants flapping, pounding on your chest of a good speaker system.

You might try "pre-warning" the neighbors by saying, "I'm going to try listening to some symphonic music tomorrow afternoon and hope it doesn't disturb you. Let me know if I get too intrusive." Keep the average levels around 85dB and let the peaks fall where they may to see what happens.

Dave

Trpceski is a great, promising young pianist & I'd rather hear him over Lang Lang ANY day. Boy, you're going to some choice concerts over there, Alan. Not bad for your 1st season run of live classical music!

I think it's great that you're acclimating yourself to the Mahler 2nd before actually going. Sometimes, I put on my AKG701s, turn off the light to listen to the Mahler 2, and let my attention wander in & out... but I never fail to be moved by the end, the tone of the offstage trumpets somehow blending into the figures of the onstage flutes, the chorus with the plaintive soprano voice breaking free, and yes, even the church bell thing (I HATE the use of church bells in any music; what a heavy-handed musical metaphor!)... they all make me feel a bit more alive than before the listening. Don't feel obligated to remain riveted to what's playing... just let it kind of push you around here & there, and before you know it, you'll find out that you're already halfway up the ladder. Just enjoy the climb.

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Ive just listened to Mahler's 2nd for the first time and it certainly cant be classed as Starbucks jazz !! thats some pretty deep shit !!

You nailed it!

Alan, you have a gift for stating in a simple, direct way the power of good music.

I get to reconnect with why I find classical music so satisfying by reading your posts. It isn't about all the little technical things. It's the emotional expression.

The dynamic power and range you describe is the source of an old comparison: that a symphony orchestra at full tilt can make Grand Funk Railroad sound like the Tooterville Trolley.

Elk stole the words right out of my mouth. I love reading your journey as you discover such great music with fresh ears and mind, and openness of heart. The way you just described your experience of listening to the Mahler 2nd, with the flute leading into the soaring voices, is just spot on. If you felt the beauty of the piece, of the moment right there, you totally got it.

BTW: you're getting REALLY spoiled over there in Chicago! The 1st ever Mahler concert you went to was at the helms of Bernard Haitink!?!!

*EDIT* - as if to prove my point:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-haitink-ovn-1122nov22,0,3331073.story

The orchestra rankings are in my opinion rather silly. Maybe this is sour grapes coming from me (since I live in Cleveland--#7 on the list and #2 in the USA), but I have heard many of these orchestras live, and all of them in taped-for-broadcast performances. They all have their good days and their less-good days (and occasionally even their bad days!). Their relative ranking also depends on what they playing, under which conductor. Just imagine Mahler 2 under Haitink played by the Maryinsky Theater Orchestra with its blatty brass section, versus the same piece played by Vienna or Berlin (and yes, or Cleveland!) under Haitink.

Great report and thanks for sharing. Your observation of how hard the orchestra works on Mahler is dead on accurate.

Don't worry too much about voter rankings. Chicago is surely one of the best in the world, no matter how you cut and no matter who's voting. The performances will vary with all orchestras depending on the composer, the conductor and the players' feelings about both.

Many voters in those poles prefer a different sound, particularly in the brass, to what we in the USA tend to gravitate towards. I love the brash Yankee sound, which Chicago epitomizes. I think it's ideally suited to Mahler.

I'm glad you're enjoying this so much and sharing with the rest of us.

Dave

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Ive never seen a chorus before, after watchng this im now absolutely positive that i need to see Verdis Requiem.

the Verdi Requiem is quite amazing. Ive sung in it twice, hope I get to do it many more times.

a bit off topic,

but if you want an amazing example of what 16 bit audio can do, do yourself a favor and grab the "EMI CLASSICS" DVD production (Verdi Requiem). Exquisitely recorded, amazing soloists....perfection!

http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Gheorghiu-Barcellona-Konstantinov-Philharmonic/dp/B000066C6K

Agreed on the DVD! I actually recommended this very DVD to Alan a few posts back so he could watch it before he attended the concert.