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SAS Audio
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Re: Bizzare?


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Checkout the 3rd paragraph, of another small mfg..who has great stuff, PATENTED.....cus' the stuff is good, he protects his designs....see, I did my lesson for today, I learned ckt designs, and found these to be the best, and priced for mortals. http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/preamplifier/ultra_ec.htm

So he and his buddy have been in business for decades, so the prices were much much less than. 5 grand back then would have been enough, maybe even 3 grand.

By the way, I see you avoided the question about your education and experience.

SAS Audio
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Re: Bizzare?


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Checkout the 3rd paragraph, of another small mfg..who has great stuff, PATENTED.....cus' the stuff is good, he protects his designs....see, I did my lesson for today, I learned ckt designs, and found these to be the best, and priced for mortals. http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/preamplifier/ultra_ec.htm

Patents were cheap then, and I would like for you to show me the patent dup.

"Our famous patented Fet Valve"

And how much capacitance is in the FET?

SAS Audio
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Re: Bizzare?

"The mere fact that you have a physical location, plus a web address, with real products and White Papers to explain how they work, puts you an in infinitely more credible position than KBK is, at this point anyway. Your points about needing to defend patents to the point of bankruptcy is exactly where justice starts to break down. In many cases it's better to just keep fighting it out in the market with better product or marketing, and let the chips fall where the will."

Thanks for your vote of confidence. I have spent decades testing designs, checking parts etc. A couple of the white papers are based upon material I read from the RCA Radiotron Designer's handbook, 4th Edition. It was written by 26 engineers. The info has been known for over 40 years.

Besides the point about lawyers, litigation etc, there are some shills and reviewers who come out of the woodwork from time to time.

Maybe JA or Stephen could do some research on the subject of shills, and write an article about how they operate?

Liquid3D
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Re: Bizzare?

This thread is the number one reason I rarely participate in forums any longer. I am only commenting here because I am new to this forum and this about my second post.

To be honest I don't care if they employ vibrators into their desing if it's musical, what would bother me is if they felt justified in charging $10k per peair because they use vibrators, Weiners, Keilbasa or as I prefer in my speaker design Chorico.

I will say this this, the amount of megabytes wasted here (my response included) would infuriate a small website owner, but it's just these type of forum hyperbole that keep many forums profitable, after all would you want your ad on these pages?

Rivcuban
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Re: Bizzare?

I am also new here. First, a poster whines that my avatar (logo) is "annoying" (so I went ahead and changed it). Then someone whines about the "hot dog" jokes. Jesus, are audiophiles really that "delicate"? What a bunch of whiny stick in the muds. Lighten up! You'll live longer!

dbowker
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Re: Bizzare?


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I am also new here. First, a poster whines that my avatar (logo) is "annoying" (so I went ahead and changed it). Then someone whines about the "hot dog" jokes. Jesus, are audiophiles really that "delicate"? What a bunch of whiny stick in the muds. Lighten up! You'll live longer!

I agree- the guy who complained about your avatar is new too- only 60 or so posts. I'd change it back personally. Yeah- there are a few people on the edge of reason around here, but that's true in any forum. Plus, the is the Rants n Raves section, so things will always be a little more Out There. Welcome to the Forum and stay a while-overall it's good.

dbowker
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Re: Bizzare?

"Audio Engine 5 (and memories of tube amplification and Spica TC-50s) "

Ooooh, I loved my TC-50s. My first high-end speakers- lasted for many years, but finally started sounding pretty tired and I made myself some Pro-Ac tower clones. Welcome!

Buddha
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Re: Bizzare?


Quote:
I am also new here. First, a poster whines that my avatar (logo) is "annoying" (so I went ahead and changed it). Then someone whines about the "hot dog" jokes. Jesus, are audiophiles really that "delicate"? What a bunch of whiny stick in the muds. Lighten up! You'll live longer!

Hey, I resent that. We are not sticks in the mud. It would be more accurate to say we have sticks up our butts.

Now, excuse me while I go look for a moving avatar of a butt with a stick in it.

mrlowry
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Re: Bizzare?


Quote:

Quote:
I am also new here. First, a poster whines that my avatar (logo) is "annoying" (so I went ahead and changed it). Then someone whines about the "hot dog" jokes. Jesus, are audiophiles really that "delicate"? What a bunch of whiny stick in the muds. Lighten up! You'll live longer!

Hey, I resent that. We are not sticks in the mud. It would be more accurate to say we have sticks up our butts.

Now, excuse me while I go look for a moving avatar of a butt with a stick in it.

Head hurts. . .too many jokes. . . can't choose choose just one.

1. Make sure it's a stick, we wouldn't want you getting banned
2. I'm not sure what kind of website you think this is.
3. Maybe it should be a conducting baton.
4a. Hopefully you don't know Robert Maplethorp.
4b. You might be able to get a Federal grant for that.

Buddha
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Re: Bizzare?

Couldn't fing a PG rated stick, so I went with a wholesome Spiderman image.

bobb
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Re: Bizzare?


Quote:

I agree- the guy who complained about your avatar is new too- only 60 or so posts.

Although I have only 60 or so posts, I am not new here. Actually, take a second look at my info and you will see that I have been here longer than you. My low number of posts just means that I talk when I have something to say, otherwise I shut up and listen (and learn.) And I think I just learned that I'm not a good fit for the Rants and Raves section.

Rivcuban - there was no need to change your avitar on my account. I never meant for that to be my goal. As my post clearly stated, I was just expressing an opinion because it is distracting to ME, and apparently only me. Please use an avitar of YOUR choice, not mine.

Happy listening to all.

Bob

mrlowry
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Re: Bizzare?

I don't want to know what you used as search words to come up with THAT!

P.S. How do you post photos to the forum?

Buddha
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Re: Bizzare?


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I don't want to know what you used as search words to come up with THAT!

P.S. How do you post photos to the forum?

You need a host server, and then when you are looking at the photo you want to post, right click the picture and select "properties." Then copy the web address listed in the "properties."

Then, when you post here, you will see a little underlined choice in the tools window that says "image."

Click "image" and then a pop up will appear and you paste the info about the pic in the provided space and click "OK."

Technically, you could post a pic of any image on the web just by copying the image's address and doing the picture post sequence, but then it uses up someone else's bandwidth.

I hope that made sense.

mrlowry
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Re: Bizzare?

Thanks

Rivcuban
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Re: Bizzare?

Right on! Thanks Doug.

Rivcuban
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Re: Bizzare?

Hehe!

Rivcuban
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Re: Bizzare?

No problem Bob. The avatar is not important to me. I appreciate your honesty.

bifcake
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Re: Bizzare?


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Couldn't fing a PG rated stick, so I went with a wholesome Spiderman image.

It is very rare that I actually laugh out loud during the course of reading forums, but this one killed me!

rvance
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Re: Bizzare?


Quote:

Quote:
Couldn't fing a PG rated stick, so I went with a wholesome Spiderman image.

It is very rare that I actually laugh out loud during the course of reading forums, but this one killed me!

Buddha- Cease and de-fist!!

dbowker
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Re: Bizzare?

Bob- My bad- I knew I should have checked your date of entry! That's what happens when you're tired and post. It actually was meant to be less criticism of you and more an encouragement to Rivcuban. In any case- carry on guys and keep posting. We could use more voices in whatever the section you visit!

SAS Audio
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Re: Bizzare?

I, personally, would like to see the rants and raves near the bottom of the forum and "amplification" etc moved towards the top. I think there would be more interest, posting on those forums.

Just my .02 worth.

CECE
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Re: Bizzare?

Why would you think "amplifiers" would be of more interest? Are you biased in that field? Hmmmm

SAS Audio
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Re: Bizzare?


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Why would you think "amplifiers" would be of more interest? Are you biased in that field? Hmmmm

Well for two reasons dup. First, other forums have the interesting stuff at the top. One has to scroll clear to the bottom here to find what other forums have at the top.

All one has to do is check out the other forums to see the interest.

Secondly, how many want to post in rants and raves with all the preaching and arguing etc? Having the more gentile forums near the top might encourage others to post.

People want to learn and talk about other stuff, concepts as well.

I don't think we are allowed to advertise and push our own agenda dup. But people are interested in concepts.

CECE
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Re: Bizzare?

I agree, and most people have some BIZZARE concepts, so they do learn here. Haven't you been listening to what I have been trying to teach you and others?

dbowker
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Re: Bizzare?


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I agree, and most people have some BIZZARE concepts, so they do learn here. Haven't you been listening to what I have been trying to teach you and others?

Oh yes, I HAVE been listening oh Master of teh Watts. I replaced my peasley Krell amp with a direct trunk line to the power station generators down the road and now push 15 Kilowatts through my system!

CECE
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Re: Bizzare?

Nice, 15kW is a good place to be. Starland Ball room uses 32kW of CROWN power, they have a larger space than me though. No need for anything other than a normal service, 15kW is hardly a large load on the service. A standard 200A panel could easily handle that. See, if you understood stuff, you wouldn't have spent unecessary funds on stuff. I still have plenty of space left to up my 4800W to more if I ever get to HELIX levels. They need 3 amplifiers per side, I only use 2 now on each side. I'll get there it takes time.There is no realism, without watts and speakers that can use it. Lest anyone think hi fi is 5" dirver, with 40W driving them, that's a table radio..nothing more

bifcake
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Re: Bizzare?

DUP,

Would you mind hosting a meet at your house? I would absolutely love to hear what your system sounds like. With everyone here giving your poop about your contention about the need for power and large drivers, the best way to put all of that discussion to bed is to actually demonstrate what your system is capable of.

We promise to take our shoes off when we enter your house and we'll bring booze.

SAS Audio
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Re: Bizzare?


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I agree, and most people have some BIZZARE concepts, so they do learn here. Haven't you been listening to what I have been trying to teach you and others?

If you mean learning from you, I am sorry. You appear more like a salesman, than knowledgeable.

Who has the size of a ballroom for their living room or bedroom? How many times the size of a living room is a ball room? It appears to me you are only pushing huge solid state amplifiers.

I see you continue to sidestep listing your education and experience.

I see you also sidestepped my question about FET capacitance.

And I see you failed to reply to my reply that capacitor DA does not only apply to RF (and not AF as you would have others to believe) but that one can easily measure the problem with a simple meter, near DC. Thus AF is included.

My point is that although you preach, and pitch alot, you can't seem to answer any technical questions. And yet you condemn designs that do not meet your personal opinion, and that you do not understand.

Now it does not bother me that you preach against magic clocks or stones. But people are not stupid enough to purchase those things. The "customer reviews" could easily be fiction.

CECE
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Re: Bizzare?

I thought your questions where mere hyperbole? Or that other big word that means not to be taken literaly. Which FET do you need teh specs on? It's all available online ya know. And as far as watts/sq ft, i surpass Starland with their 32K, they have a giant room, not a football field but BIG. I have a small room....More watts doesn't mean just louder, it means BETTER, more control, evrything just sounds BETTER, less strained, and seems to just wanna play with no effort. Once you go WATTS you never go back. Hey that's liek a pun, cus' you know the town of WATTS in CA. is.....yeah Alex if ya want to be demo'd...hmmmm, send me PM...

SAS Audio
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Re: Bizzare?

"I thought your questions where mere hyperbole? Or that other big word that means not to be taken literaly. Which FET do you need teh specs on? It's all available online ya know."

There is much information that is not presented online. One such example is how the junction capacitance varies vs Vcc applied.

"And as far as watts/sq ft, i surpass Starland with their 32K, they have a giant room, not a football field but BIG. I have a small room....More watts doesn't mean just louder, it means BETTER, more control,"

Not necessarily. Damping factor, not max current capability, is the important parameter. Most speakers now adays are designed for low output impedance (Z).

Other amp designs, with more moderate, even high output impedances (lower/lowest damping factors) can have just as tight bass if the speaker is simply Critically or Maximally damped.

It is very basic dup, yet you seem to have no understanding of this procedure, which has been around for 50 or more years.

So again, you preach false information as truth.

"evrything just sounds BETTER, less strained, and seems to just wanna play with no effort."

Well, that is solid state isn't it. Just make sure your amplifiers don't have crossover distortion, which will screw up the sound.

"Once you go WATTS you never go back."

I have heard those so called high power amps, and you can have them. I would be building SS amps if I thought they were more realistic. But tubes make the instruments/voices sound more realistic. Can't say that for all amps, or many amps though.

Again, I see you bypassed all of my questions, except the FET question.

CECE
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Re: Bizzare?

The amps I have in use are super fast, low distortion, high power, high current abilty...All the things that make it all sound great. Each amp is capable of about 1400W RMS into 4 Ohm, OmegaStar EX ckts in the amplifiers. 12 Exicon MOSFETS on the output I got 4 running mono from VanAlstine Ultra Hybrid phase inverters....Driven by some VanAlstine Ultra Hybrid latest pre amp. Since an amplifer is just a modulated power supply, if it delivers more power its better, can never go wrong with a bigger power supply. My speakers can demand quite a bit of current, it just got better with each additionl amplifier. There ain't a tube amplifier out there even the Audio Research that can deleiver the current and watts of these things..and it has "quality" watts, fast 800V/uS super reliable, stable into any kind of load...they are doing what a power supply should, deliver power. Moving from like 300Watts each side to like 500W each side got better, then moving up to 1400W+ on each section of teh speakers a total of 2800+ on each side got even better, not louder BETTER, easily audible, no need to "listen" closeley etc, it was so audible with each moving up. Convinced me, more power is ALWAYS better. And the amps have always been the similar ones, so it wasn't the amps "sound" it was just more power variable.

Buddha
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Re: Bizzare?

Ah, if only all audiophiles could be forced to try to replicate the sound of Starland Ballroom. The hobby would be complete, perfect.

CECE
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Re: Bizzare?

Well, ain't you trying to replicate Carnegie Hall or Or or Avery Fisher Hall etc? Where's your reference point, has to be some live event, no? Hey Leslie West, Robin Trower, Buddy guy, Matt Oree....all play at StartLand, not a bad place.....ain't no House of Blues Sound like in Chicago, best live Sound yet ever I've heard , but it works for a local place. Houise of Blues Chicago, even got the writeup as great sound, a few months after I was there, and proclaimed to myself and others, this place sounds GREAT!!! And wouldn't ya know it, just a couple months later the Pro audio magazine agrees with me...my ears must be working just fine. They had lotsa multiple drivers, lotsa WATTS, no boom, no shriek, no shrill, not loud, not soft, just right, in any location, now that's a well done setup. JBL stuff Superb sound.

SAS Audio
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Re: Bizzare?

Hi dup,

"The amps I have in use are super fast, low distortion, high power, high current abilty...All the things that make it all sound great."

Well, that is the specs on paper. Frequency dependent feedback between stages via the power supply isn't accurately measured by simple distortion or frequency response measurements.

"Each amp is capable of about 1400W RMS into 4 Ohm, OmegaStar EX ckts in the amplifiers. 12 Exicon MOSFETS on the output I got 4 running mono from VanAlstine Ultra Hybrid phase inverters....Driven by some VanAlstine Ultra Hybrid latest pre amp."

There are lots of other parameters besides average loudness? What about soundstage, dynamics (loudness to softness), tonal quality/timbre, depth etc.

One example of distortion is depth distortion. It involves the room, but also electronics can cause this type of distortion. Even interconnect cables. I use the Stereophile CD3, track 10, and other CDs to check for this distortion.

"Since an amplifer is just a modulated power supply, if it delivers more power its better, can never go wrong with a bigger power supply."

Oh? Larger filter caps have multiple problems. And the larger they are, which ss has large caps, the worse the problem.

Inductance becomes more prominant at lower frequencies, the low khz. So the cap is not linear, but nonlinear.

Then there are DA and ESR problems in the caps which won't show up with simple single signal (try repeating that) measurements, static conditions, but will show up in dynamic/musical conditions.

"My speakers can demand quite a bit of current, it just got better with each additionl amplifier."

I agree dup. I think there are several, many brands that do require lots of power to drive them. But there are alot of brands that are more efficient, requiring much less power to drive them.

"There ain't a tube amplifier out there even the Audio Research that can deleiver the current and watts of these things..and it has "quality" watts,

I don't sell or manufacture ss amps, but the Belles new reference 350 amps is probably one of the very best I have heard.
It also depends on the loudness you wish to obtain. For every 3db decrease in loudness, approx 1/2 power is reqired. So just decreasing the loudness by 10db requires 1/10th the power. 115db to 105db requires only 1/10th the power. If a speaker is 10db more efficient, it only requires 1/10th the power at the same level.

"Convinced me, more power is ALWAYS better."

That is with those speakers, that specific example. Not necessarily with other, more constant load and more sensitive speakers. One example doesn't always cover everything dup.

Take care dup.

Buddha
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Re: Bizzare?

When I lived in San Francisco, sometimes I'd get a brewskie in an outdoor cafe at Union Square and watch the people try to talk to the crazy guy standing on a box yelling through a megaphone...they'd point something out about what he was talking about, and the crazy megaphone guy would just keep saying the same thing over and over.

I'm having a little Saturday morning deja vu.

dbowker
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Re: Bizzare?

Yeah- what Buddha said. Let me just save you some time SASAudio- take a look at who had the most posts on this forum, bar none. Yep you guessed it: Sir DUP.

At times, funny, lunatic, boring and maddening- he's not going to engage in what most people would call a linear conversation, and if there is any logic to his posts, it exists in a world of it's own. You don't want to visit that world except in high orbit and view it cautiously with a telescope. Getting sucked in to it's gravity will result in pain and disorientation...

SAS Audio
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Re: Bizzare?

Understood. Thanks for the advice Gents.

Steve

Elk
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Re: Bizzare?

But great info, Steve!

Thanks for the posts explaining your reasoning.

SAS Audio
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Re: Bizzare?


Quote:
But great info, Steve!

Thanks for the posts explaining your reasoning.

Your welcome Elk.

Steve

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