Buddha
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Is Beatles FLAC good FLAC?
RGibran
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No technical reason why the flac. files would be a compromise.

OT...did you get my PM?

Buddha
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Thanks, man!

I went and bought it - seems like a fun way to start learning how to do this computer sound things!

Thanks all around, RG.

Buddha
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Hmmm, someone told me I can't burn discs from this to play on my CD player.

True?

Can I put it on an iPOD and play it in FLAC?

struts
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Quote:
Hmmm, someone told me I can't burn discs from this to play on my CD player.

True?


You can but you would need to convert the files to 16/44.1 WAVs (they are 24-bit FLACs) first. I would recommend dBpoweramp Music Converter if you're a PC man, I'm sure someone can chime in with an equivalent Mac recommendation if not.


Quote:
Can I put it on an iPOD and play it in FLAC?


No, you will need to convert to ALAC if you want better-than-MP3 resolution as the iPod doesn't support FLAC (and may not support 24-bit resolution, not certain). Again dBpoweramp, or similar, will do the job. However, the 320kbps MP3 files will play fine on your iPod.

As delivered these files can only be played on players that natively support 24/44.1 FLAC, principally computer media players like foobar/winamp, and hi-rez capable streamers like the Slim/Logitech Transporter.

ncdrawl
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yes you can...

nero works with flac files../

www.nero.com

OR just download http://members.home.nl/w.speek/flac.htm

flac frontend, open it up, drag the flac files in there,hit decode, and burn with whatever program you use to burn..

I use CDburner xp or imgburn

http://www.toritraders.com/guides/flac.htm

RGibran
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Quote:
As delivered these files can only be played on players that natively support 24/44.1 FLAC, principally computer media players like foobar/winamp, and hi-rez capable streamers like the Slim/Logitech Transporter.

As well as the Logitech Squeezebox Classic which will handle up to 24/48 natively.

RGibran
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Quote:
yes you can...

nero works with flac files../

www.nero.com

OR just download http://members.home.nl/w.speek/flac.htm

flac frontend, open it up, drag the flac files in there,hit decode, and burn with whatever program you use to burn..

Correct me if wrong, but as Struts points out, one would still need to do the conversion from 24 bit to 16 bit prior to burning?

absolutepitch
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Ohhhhhh, *another* thing to buy. ....

ncdrawl
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Quote:

Quote:
yes you can...

nero works with flac files../

www.nero.com

OR just download http://members.home.nl/w.speek/flac.htm

flac frontend, open it up, drag the flac files in there,hit decode, and burn with whatever program you use to burn..

Correct me if wrong, but as Struts points out, one would still need to do the conversion from 24 bit to 16 bit prior to burning?

Nero does it automatically. Or...you can use www.cdwave.com

to do the conversion, , Audacity Reaper

or any other DAW if you do not like how Nero handles it.

ncdrawl
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or just use rockbox on your ipod and play the flacs as they are.

http://www.rockbox.org/

RGibran
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Quote:
Nero does it automatically

Mighty damn convenient feature for burning flacs of any sample rate. I assume it handles most all file formats for burning as easily?

A tad expensive for audio only use compared to the competition, but if one needed the photo and video features it's another swiss army knife like DBPoweramp.

ncdrawl
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Yes, it does most all of them..just as convertxtodvd does all the video formats.

I use nero micro/lite, which is a stripped down build.

Buddha
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Well, it arrived.

Put the files on the hard drive of my laptop and a friend installed Foobar, then the signal went into a DAC called the "Thingie," which is a DAC inside a black piece of PVC pipe stuffed with caulking...then on the Hi Fi.

I've already spent time with the stereo CD set, and...

The FLAC Beatles is the best effing Beatles I have ever heard.

Unbelievably good, and I am not prone to audio hyperbole. These really are eye opening.

Played the files as demo's at T.H.E. and the most common response was 'what speed!'

I give these a solid solid solid thumbs up.

Now, I gotta go learn what the heck I need to buy. The DAC was borrowed.

The format is computer file to Foobar to some external DAC to preamp, eh? So, all I should need is a DAC, I think. (I hate this computer audio stuff.)

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Buddha,

Do you still have the remastered CDs with which to compare or are you relying on memory? (Not to imply your memory is anything but superb).

All you need to play the files is a sound card that outputs a digital signal that can be played back on your DAC of choice. There are many cards that output Toslink S/PDIF and coaxial (RCA) S/PDIF. Many computers, both PC and MAC, come with Toslink standard. Of course, USB is a possibility as well.

struts
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Quote:
The FLAC Beatles is the best effing Beatles I have ever heard.

Just beats the hell out of me. I mean upsampling I can kinda understand, what with brick wall filters and pre-ringing etc. But adding -48dB of dynamic range, especially when it is almost certainly below the noise floor of the recording itself, let alone the replay equipment. HOW DOES THAT HELP???

I am not doubting your subjective opinion at all btw. I would just love to have some rationale to put around it.

As always, any clues for the clueless gratefully received.

Buddha
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Quote:

Quote:
The FLAC Beatles is the best effing Beatles I have ever heard.

Just beats the hell out of me. I mean upsampling I can kinda understand, what with brick wall filters and pre-ringing etc. But adding -48dB of dynamic range, especially when it is almost certainly below the noise floor of the recording itself, let alone the replay equipment. HOW DOES THAT HELP???

I am not doubting your subjective opinion at all btw. I would just love to have some rationale to put around it.

As always, any clues for the clueless gratefully received.

I was completely unprepared for the difference.

The CD's are still on hand, and I've played them on different playback systems, and the FLAC sounds alarmingly better. It sounds "less digital," to use poor descriptive language. I like the FLAC maybe better than the vinyl, even.

I bought the FLAC set to motivate me to start learning about computer Hi Fi, so there's even more good that will come of it!

ncdrawl
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there are a number of good DACs , Buddha..

I would reccomend the benchmark, grace 904, mytek stereo 96, or if you want balls out the Berkley Audio Design Alpha DAC.. of course I have heard that the DACMAGIC is really nice too.

RGibran
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I read the 30,000 limited edition units were sold out!

I understand the files are FLAC 44.1KHz 24bit

SO

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Buddha,
if possible see if you can borrow your friends DAC again and connect digital out on your CD player to the DAC.
I hope this is possible with your friends DAC as there is a chance you like that product due to its implementation of filters,etc.

If it then turns your CD Beatles closer to what you liked from the FLAC version you know what DAC to buy

Good 1st step anyway.
Cheers
Orb

mjalazard
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Here's information on the Thingee from Blue Circle Audio:
http://www.bluecircle.com/index.php?menu_id=5002
http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/blue_circle_usb_thingee.htm
Mike

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Ah thanks Mike,
looks like it does not have any inputs apart from the USB so can't test it with CD player.

Cheers
Orb

Elk
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But adding -48dB of dynamic range, especially when it is almost certainly below the noise floor of the recording itself, let alone the replay equipment. HOW DOES THAT HELP???

This makes no sense to me either, especially given that DACs resolve only to 19 or 20 bits at best.

There is no additional "resolution" by adding bit-depth. What would the listener be listening to that improves the sound with greater bit-depth?

Thanks for the report, Buddha.

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Quote:
I understand the files are FLAC 44.1KHz 24bit

SO

RGibran
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I would think there many reasons why Buddha stated what he did, but perhaps just stated it incorrectly. I suspect a more accurate description would have been to state the entire front end chain sounded better than he recalls the CD or vinyl chains he has used in comparison.

Struts, I can't get 16 / 24 bit confirmation on the Thingee and assuming is dangerous when it comes to computer audio. Can you link us up on that?

As for comparing the 24bit flacs maybe we all should go to rapidshare for a sample to test for ourselves?

struts
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Quote:
Struts, I can't get 16 / 24 bit confirmation on the Thingee and assuming is dangerous when it comes to computer audio. Can you link us up on that?

Noted in the TAS review and confirmed by Mark at Blue Circle Audio. This would also be consistent with the use of a Burr-Brown PCM2706 USB receiver chip, which at this pricepoint would be the likely candidate.

Just to be clear, I am not trying to ding Buddha or call his judgment into question. In fact my gut says he's onto something (other than good shiraz that is), and I'm dying to find out what!!

Buddha
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Installed it at home, with uTorrent and Foobar (installed by a friend.)

Then, just to the Monsoon computer speakers and I'm still loving it.

These new masters have generated several similar reactions from listeners at T.H.E. and remind me to finish my PRaT project.

I hate the term, but I think improved PRaT would be a term worth exploring with these remasters.

Elk
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I assume two things: that your DAC is getting 24/44 and you still prefer this version over 16/44.

I need to get my hooves on a couple of these files.

RGibran
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Interesting comments from THIS SLIMDEVICES FORUM thread.

OK, so I diffed (Audio Diffmaker) the 24 and 16 bit versions of Come Together.
First observation: these come from the same digital master. There is zero sample rate difference between them (ie the samples all line up perfectly - not possible if they were from different masters).

Second observation: the overall null is -82dB (so in 16-bit terms the difference is in the bottom 3 bits). The difference file sounds silent until you give it 50dB of boost - then you can hear broadband noise (hiss) plus the basics of the music itself - you can follow the words!. Interestingly the hi-hats are very clear...

Looking at the diff file frequency plot, the differences are all below 500Hz or above 15kHz. In between there is little difference.

Conclusion: the files are very similar but still different. The differences should be audible on good equipment. The differences should manifest themselves at the top end (hi-hats) and possibly in the bass guitar/drums.

The 24-bit masters are worth having - certainly Abbey Road is.

============================================================

Second conclusion: the differences you hear are probably nothing more than the artefacts of noise-shaped dither that was added to the 24 bit masters when preparing the 16 bit releases.

============================================================

Clive - entirely possible - however that means the 24-bit versions are more "accurate"...
In fact looking again at the frequency plots I am certain you are correct.

The 24-bit versions have (literally) more music and less noise in them. But we are talking about tiny things here.

============================================================

I'm just bowled over by the sound of AR and LIB @24-bit. SP and TWA are good too...

Orb
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Ah interesting thanks.
I appreciate most may already know this, but its worth mentioning the the latest releases are all from the original master tapes, unlike some other remasters that are from a digital backup/copy.

Cheers
Orb

Elk
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Quote:
Second observation: the overall null is -82dB (so in 16-bit terms the difference is in the bottom 3 bits). The difference file sounds silent until you give it 50dB of boost - then you can hear broadband noise (hiss) plus the basics of the music itself - you can follow the words!. Interestingly the hi-hats are very clear...

Fascinating.

I have a great deal of trouble accepting that anything -82dB done will be heard, but would instead be masked by the rest of the music. "The difference file sounds silent until you give it 50dB of boost" is very telling.

But perhaps this is the difference that Buddha heard.

Thank you for posting this!

(Every time I read SlimDevices I unintentionally see SlimeDevices. Clear proof of some sort of unconscious bias I guess.)

RGibran
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