The Bay Area's Unique Audiophile-Jazz Partnership

In what may be the first collaboration of its kind, the San Francisco Audiophile Society (SFAS) has partnered with a major urban arts presenter, the SFJAZZ Center, to offer its members a prime block of "audiophile-approved" seats to major SFJAZZ Center events. The instant success of the SFAS Concert Series collaboration is reflected in the fact that all 30 tickets to the first event, a March 1 concert with Taj Mahal, sold out in four hours. In fact, SFAS "chief troublemaker" Alón Sagee was forced to cut the waiting list off at 20, lest even more people get their hopes up for seats that would never become available.

The idea for the partnership came to Sagee last September after his wife told him that the amplified sound in the venue didn't hurt her ears. "I thought about it for a second," he told Stereophile, "before realizing that the idea of putting audiophiles in with the Jazz Center made perfect sense."

Sagee, who was already a member of SFJAZZ, contacted SFJAZZ CEO Donald Derheim, who immediately put him in touch with Barrett Shaver, Director of Development and Anne Calvert, Membership Manager. When all three spoke via conference call, Sagee was delighted with the response.

"The idea was about building more community around a mutual love of music," says Sagee. "For me, being a member of both organizations, I saw two very social, music-oriented organizations with fairly similar goals, and audiences that should naturally overlap."

Before planning the first event in the ongoing partnership, Sagee went into "research mode." He attended five shows in two-year old, 750-seat Miner Auditorium, the country's first standalone, purpose-built venue dedicated to jazz, and looked for the sweet spot.

"I discovered that there are many of them," he says. "After listening a lot, I came to a band of seats across the main center area that really sound great."

Then he and the SFJAZZ folks went about picking an event. Initial hopes to make it a concert with jazz piano legend McCoy Tyner were abandoned when SFAS's membership director spied a potential conflict with a big football playoff. Rather than compete, they punted for Taj Mahal. With prime seats reduced from $67.50 to $51, with all ticket fees waived, SFAS members bit fast.

The mutual benefit of the partnership was not lost on SFJAZZ, whose memberships start at $60/year. "We know that our regular members come see 2–6 shows per year," Tom Porter, SFJAZZ Manager of Corporate Partnership, told Stereophile. "That's just off the charts compared to other performing arts organizations around the country, whose members may see just 1–2 shows per year."

Off the charts also describes the response from SFAS members. Just 11 days after Sagee announced the partnership, six SFAS members have already let him know that they have become what he terms "dual citizen" members of both organizations. Porter calls it a "benign collision of two audiences, with the SFJAZZ Center serving as the mixing bowl."

"It's really great for audiophiles to step away from their glorious-sounding home systems and see some live music once in a while," says Sagee. "SFJAZZ members are really tuned into seeing live music, and I thought SFAS members would natural gravitate to the experience in a group outing. I also always thought the SFJAZZ members we'd meet would naturally gravitate toward having superb sound at home. Many people don't know what's possible from home systems."

Sagee has also demonstrated what is possible when fresh blood infuses an audiophile organization with new ideas. As a former coordinator of SFAS' predecessor, the Bay Area Audiophile Society (BAAS), I initially had strong reservations about Sagee's plans to change the name of the organization and turn it into a membership fee-based audiophile society. But, after initial opposition from some longtime members, response has been overwhelmingly positive.

Thanks in part to a major push at last August's California Audio Show, made possible with the support of Constantine Soo, SFAS's membership has grown to at least 250 members, each of whom has paid $25 annual dues. And that, I might add, is without enticing them with thousands of dollars of raffle prizes that, by some reports, often attract people more interested in profiting from their wins than listening to the music.

SFAS and SFJAZZ are currently contemplating making their second partnership event a mid-May sojourn, with the Carolina Chocolate Drops, an African-American string band. For more information as it develops, click here.

COMMENTS
dalethorn's picture

So is that $60 per year, plus $51 for a special seat, and only then if you can get it?

Mike Rubin's picture

You don't have to be a member of SFJazz to purchase tickets for its events. Being a member does convey other benefits, however, many of which provide value for money. Check out the SFJazz.org website for membership benefits.

Mike Rubin's picture

I have been a member of SFJazz for about a decade, am a Leaders Circle contributor now, and was a member of the Giant Steps program for the funding of the SFJazz Center. I thoroughly love attending events there.

That said, I am going to disagree about the sound quality at the Center. During the opening week events last year, it was apparent how much natural sound could be projected from the stage without amplification. Yet, for whatever reason, after Opening Week SFJazz fell back into an old habit of overamplifying everything on the stage, as thought it were presenting rock and roll. I'd hoped in the new building, we'd have seen a change in the preferences, but things haven't been different since then.

We go to between 35 and 40 concerts a year there and "our" seats are in rows D or E, the first two rows of the riser section. Those seats are close enough to the stage that we should be able to hear everything on stage without added amplification. Yet, most of the time, we hear a confusing combination of amplified sound from the speakers above our heads and whatever emanates directly from the stage. Behind us, nearly all sound is from the speakers, which seems unnecessary in such a small hall. Ahead of us, on the half-dozen rows on the main floor, there is less amplification, but then the problem becomes one of being too close to one side of the stage or the other and being unable to hear everything happening up there.

I've mentioned this to my Leaders' Circle liaison and, at one point, I had a discussion with Dave Holland's sound man, when it turned out that he and not the SFJazz engineers were responsible for some of the most execrable sound we've heard at the Center. The net result of these discussions, however, has been that *I* seem to be the only person complaining, the press and members otherwise universally praise the sound quality, and that there's no reason to fix something not broken.

I intend to keep patronizing the Center as there's really no place like in the Bay Area that makes so much jazz - and other music like Taj Mahal's and a ton of world music -- available. I also am prepared to accept the sound quality limitations which, if anything, are fewer than those of other venues. (This is why I long ago stopped thinking that my stereo needs to reproduce the sound of live music, since nearly all live music in San Francisco is amplified and heard through speakers as it's being created.) I am just posting this lest people get the illusion that the sound here is something akin to a miracle. I would be surprised seriously if most members of an audiophile society were pleased with the sound in any absolute terms.

Jason Victor Serinus's picture

Although our perspectives differ, Mike, in that I have evaluated the hall from both an acoustic and amplified standpoint, I, too, have concerns. I simply didn't think that, in the context of a news story, that it was appropriate to raise them. But I certainly did raise them with both Alón Sagee and Tom Porter.

I initially evaluated the hall's acoustics as part of a feature, for San Francisco Classical Voice, on the acoustics in the Bay Area's three newest halls. https://www.sfcv.org/article/taking-the-measure-of-three-new-concert-halls I found the unamplified sound in SFJazz's Miner Auditorium clear but most definitely on the dry side. It certainly did not sparkle.

That was in an empty house, listening to solo piano as I walked around the hall. Later, I attended a concert by Philharmonia Baroque, which I also reviewed for SFCV, that took place in a full hall. That experience was far less happy, with the bright leading edge of voices and instruments, as well as upper harmonics, damped to the point that the shine was lost. I literally had to extrapolate how soprano Carolyn Sampson might sound in a space conducive to unamplified soprano. I left the concert lamenting that Philharmonia Baroque Orchestra, having been handicapped for years by the dry and dead sound in Herbst Theatre, had to suffer through more of the same at SFJazz.

This leads to my three experiences with amplified jazz in the hall. My sense is that, due to the dryness, the amplification must be turned up to reach the top and back of the hall. That, understandably, would impact you negatively in seats so close. But even with the sound turned up, Tord Gustavsen's piano sounded rather flat and dull high up in the hall. I'm not convinced that unamplified jazz would go over well in the space.

I repeat here a suggestion I made to the folks I was working with at SFJAZZ at the time of my initial evaluation. If the wall behind the stage were redone with reflective material, I think it would help move the sound out into the hall, as well as give it a bit more life. Saying that, I acknowledge that I'm not fully aware of what material is there now. But I am acutely aware of is the understandable tendency of acousticians and concert promoters to pretend that design flaws do not exist, and that their hall's sound is superb. See my comments on Stanford's Bing Concert Hall, and some of the responses from attendees (Including SFAS planner Dan Rubin), for more on that score.

Mike Rubin's picture

Thanks for the reality check and at least a bit of validation, Jason. I will listen more pointedly when we next attend an event at the Center in March. In the meantime, I wanted to check out the SF Classical Voice article you wrote, but the link seems dead. Is there an another way to get to it?

By the way, we attended the Gustavsen concert, too. In general, ECM records sound better on my home setup -- which is FAR from state of the art -- than do nearly all live performances these days.

Jason Victor Serinus's picture

Hi Mike,

Try the link, but remove the final "close bracket" that is being treated as part of the address. Then you'll get there.

Speaking of what sounds better at home on a half-decent system than in the hall: the Kronos Quartet. If you want to hear a high noise floor, listen to how gray their amplified sound is. Far better sound at home.

Then again, since they're always amplified, they're a special case. And since they only record a fraction of the music they perform, their recordings can never replace the "real" thing, even if "real" in their case is amplified.

jason

Mike Rubin's picture

Link works.

I've never seen the Kronos live, although I have a ton of their stuff on CD. I did see the Turtle Island Quartet at SFJazz a few weeks ago, though, and that actually sounded quite a bit better than most of the conventional jazz groups do. The amplification was well within reasonable bounds, my party of four thought.

John Atkinson's picture
Jason Victor Serinus wrote:
Try the link, but remove the final "close bracket" that is being treated as part of the address.

I've fixed the link in your posting, Jason.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

John Atkinson's picture
Jason Victor Serinus wrote:
Tord Gustavsen's piano sounded rather flat and dull...

Much as I love his first album for ECM, that is pretty much how Tord Gustavsen sounded when I heard his trio live at Joe's Pub in New York. :)

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Jason Victor Serinus's picture

I think, John, that you are referring to his musicianship, rather than to the sound of the piano per se. But perhaps not. I like his music a lot, but the dull sound at SFJazz led, not to a trance state, but rather to one of ennui.

ptruce's picture

I initially joined the Jazz Center and went to see Eric Bibb and Maria Muldaur. I was very disappointed in the Meyer Sound PA (?) and basically crossed the Center off my list. I was seated in the middle of the floor seats, the most expensive availabl.e

That said, the venue is truly gorgeous and one should attend at least once. If I rember correctly, the announcer said it cost $62 million! Try it before deciding whether the sound is great, ok or not so good.

Peter Truce

ptruce's picture

I initially joined the Jazz Center and went to see Eric Bibb and Maria Muldaur. I was very disappointed in the Meyer Sound PA (?) and basically crossed the Center off my list. I was seated in the middle of the floor seats, the most expensive availabl.e

That said, the venue is truly gorgeous and one should attend at least once. If I rember correctly, the announcer said it cost $62 million! Try it before deciding whether the sound is great, ok or not so good.

Peter Truce

dennisdavis's picture

I've been to a great many concerts at the Center and was a bit surprised to see Alon's promotion of these seats as audiophile approved. I've tried various seats around the center, and there is no substitute for sitting up closer where the live sound is not overwhelmed by the sound system. As jazz venues go, its very good. It's a jazz hall and I don't think that it is fairly judged by how the Philharmonia Baroque sounds in the venue. I wouldn't want to sit in the front rows at Davies Symphony Hall but it works well at at SFJazz.

Jason Victor Serinus's picture

Music and audio critic Dennis Davis is the co-founder of SFAS's predecessor, the former Bay Area Audiophile Society (BAAS).

untangle's picture

As another former leader of BAAS/SFAS I would echo Jason's applause and support for the fine job that Alon Sagee has done since taking over for me. I particularly like the conceptualization and execution of this partnership/gig -- and that goes whether the seats are "audiophile approved" or not. It's great that SFAS is getting enthusiasts out to live events. Isn't that AWSI? ;)

Bob

Alon's picture

Well, this may be unprecedented: Most of the posts on this thread (so far) have come from either a current or previous President of a certain Bay Area’s Audiophile Society. Certainly, an impressive collection of wisdom and experience, each bringing a unique perspective and a different set of ears.

Whether we can ever all agree on what venue sounds good is moot. Certainly, no hall is perfect. I really like this one, and so do my wife and friends. I respect that some of you feel differently, but we’ve enjoyed our experiences at SFJAZZ immensely and are so grateful to have it in our midst.

Today is my one-year anniversary as President of SFAS and I am overjoyed by the support from SFAS members, who have been joining in unprecedented numbers, paying yearly dues and quickly selling out every event this past year with enthusiasm.

I feel honored to serve this growing community of audiophiles and music-lovers.

Alón

Jason Victor Serinus's picture

You're doing a great service, Alón, Here's hoping that this article and your example serve as inspiration to other audio societies throughout the world. Whether or not every audiophile and music critic endorses the sound at SFJazz, it is clear that your forward-thinking initiatives are "audiophile approved."

Allen Fant's picture

Thanks! for sharing- JVS.

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