Audio Streams

So there are "superior" ethernet cables? Maybe so, but...

1) Why are the opinions of highly regarded manufacturers who claim that expensive cables make no difference systematically ignored by the Hi-Fi press? I have personally received this feedback from Schiit, BAT, Sanders. I bet Paul Barton is on the same boat and so is Magnepan. Ask them on an interview; it is the least you can do.

2) Why don't you hire an assistant for minimum wage to switch the cables while you stay blind and comfortable? $40 buys 4 hours of assisted blind listening, so you can have a comfy test.

Highly expensive cables might make a difference (or not), but not addressing the above two points takes away a lot of credibility away from the Hi Fi media.

If you want to continue this conversation I can send you links to non-hate-filled opinions and studies that suggest that cables make no difference. I am talking about opinions of manufacturers and audiophiles who ought to be respected and accounted for.

Now...would you be so kind as not to ban my comments? I have never used hate language, I try to argue my points properly, and it is nice and healthy to disagree.

Well, wait a minute.
I'm an automation engineer, specialized in real time networking... and I also do live sound with Digital mixer, using Dante network protocol.
If you ethernet cable does have an impact on your sound, seriously, change your sound networking protocol!
If the protocol looks even remotely like a professional protocol, it will never allow any ethernet cable or device to have an impact on what you hear !
Just my 2€cents...
Raoul

It's an utter nonsense. Those that say it is possible don't have a clue how 'digital' actually works. And that is the MAJORITY of so called 'computer audio experts', including well known audio industry ones, though you have to bear in mind they are trying to sell us something so may be introducing deliberate falsities. "The leading edge of the pulse" is a good one, as is 'accurate reference voltage".

Noise? No. an Ethernet cable is isolated both ends. There is no path for noise. This MAY be why such streamers can sometimes sound better than USB. But varying 'noise' between different types of Ethernet cable is ridiculous.

Do they think computer designers know nothing? The effects of stuff as sloped leading edges, inaccurate reference voltages, noise on the signal, etc, were totally eliminated (and I mean 'totally eliminated', not merely reduced) right from the world's first digital computers in the 1940s. They would not have worked at all otherwise and nor would modern ones. If such things affect the 'audio industry' stuff it just proves their designers cluelessness.

Streamers? Don't buy a hundred dollar one and don't buy a five thousand dollar one. The cheap one will be rubbish in all sorts of ways and the 'digital' industry moves so fast that your expensive one won't be as good as one a fifth of the price in a years time.

So these things just handle the media? No storage, no DAC? I guess they have a slick app, but it seems to me for that kind of coin you would be better served buying a dedicated computer (eg Mac Mini) and run that via your iPad. Great looking things though.

I am also a subjectivist who highly enjoys the subjectivist hi-fi media. I am not here to antagonize you.

I firmly believe that the Hi-Fi media would increase its credibility if they addressed the two points I expressed in my previous post (which you chose to ignore).

1) Comfortable and long blind tests can be done with the assistance of someone on minimum wage.

2) The opinions of highly regarded Hi-Fi manufacturers cannot be systematically ignored. Many of them have not heard any difference between good enough cables and very expensive cables after long listening sessions done over long periods of time. They have highly trained listening skills and you already love their products.

Just add a blindfold and an assistant on minimum wage to your own controlled listening environment. Do it for 4 hours. We will trust your findings. Whatever you tell us they are (we are already trusting you and that is why we read you).

Just ask the manufacturers you admire what they think about very expensive cables.

It is not too much to ask. I am a loyal Stereophile reader.

Thanks!

I get it. It is your words and your bytes. You own your column and we should be able to live with that.

Unfortunately, the subjectivist vs. objectivist debate has been contaminated by many, especially objectivists, who use ill conceived language and are believers of "science has an answer to everything" (as if we had already cured cancer). Just like when it comes to getting rid of cancer, science is in diapers when it comes to understanding how we enjoy and internalize music.

If the "very expensive cables" vs "good enough cables" debate had not been contaminated by the real audiofools, then, we would have had a calm debate about it.

I still believe that the subjectivist media would highly benefit from my two suggestions: 1) comfortable assisted blind listening tests and 2) when interviewing manufacturers: ask them if they are "believers".

I own Maggies 20.1 and based on their rear speaker connectors, I am nearly positive that Magnepan just doesn't believe in very expensive speaker cables. If Magnepan is a "non-believer", then shouldn't we at least try to respect their opinion (at least by acknowledging it)?

had an online server, a local media server that imported your library from virtually any media player, a huge amount of customization ability, the ability to easily sync multiple players, a free app and an even better third party one, and so on. And they sold for about $300, oh, and they had a built in DAC. And it was a very good one at that. But Logitech pulled the plug on it due to poor sales. I see no point to these "high end"streamers as they're being marketed. Their utility is very limited given their price. And I also have to wonder what software support, which will be imperative, will be like. You can do more with an Apple TV or Airport Express, using an Ipad or Iphone with Air Play.

These devices are not for everyone, what in hi-fi is?, and each offers a different set of features that will appeal to different users. While delivering the ability to play music from network-attached storage and streaming services are their main purpose, there are also features that will appeal to specific users. For example, owners of SimAudio systems may value the fact that the Sim app allows control over their other components. The Auralic Vega allows you to stream high res PCM and DSD over wi-fi which solves a connectivity issue for some people.

While there are others solutions, including using a computer with a remote app, some people would rather spend their money on a dedicated device that delivers a specific set of features and is designed, from the ground up, as an audio device.

Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com

I agree with you on all counts, except on the methodology to evaluate the Audioquest ethernet cables.

Audioquest has 5 different ethernet cables, so they are asserting that we should be able to tell the difference among 5 gradual changes of ethernet cable quality. Once you start adding all cables I use in my system, Audioquest's business model asserts that a trained listener should be able to tell the differences among at least 50 gradual changes (and I am not even accounting for combinations or cable length - Audioquest claims speaker cable should have the same length-).

Audioquest's business model may not be a scam, but certainly smells like it, and this scam business model is the strongest hypothesis (unless you can look at someone in the eye and assert that you can tell at least 60% of these dozens of gradual "improvements").

Audiophiles tend to be far more educated than the average person. Most of us can tell that all these "gradual improvements" are nearly impossible to tell. No way I could identify all gradual changes Audioquest's claims I should be able to identify. Neither can the audiophile with the goldenest of ears. No way. Sorry I am such a positivist, but no way.

And I hope I am fulfilling my goal of spreading the word that some further credibility when (blind) testing cables and when acknowledging the opinions of manufacturers regarding cables will definitely help the hi-end media.

Michael, you can't insist you can make a claim and refuse to put it to the test.

As a certified network engineer it's simply illogical to me there could be a difference between Ethernet cables unless one perhaps is rated Cat 5 and the other Cat 6.

Perhaps there really IS an improvement between 2 similarly rated cables, I'm open to learning about that.

So, take up the challenge, don't simply brush it away.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
skris88

I guess you've just proved it Michael. The Internet is still in Wild West mode with snake oil salesmen rampant everywhere.

1,000s of people every day are sold $200 HDMI cables instead of $20 ones exactly because of people like you. It's just business? No, it's fraud. Especially since it's not the wealthy who get sucked in to your outrageous claims, but the struggling poor.

I guess I don't have to read your articles any more, and I won't.

".....we will be held accountable for every word that we use or misuse."

Dear Editor,
I always wonder why the most sophisticated laboratories in the world get fast and correct results although they use standard ethernet cables.