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bifcake
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud

I don't frequent other hi-fi forums, so I have no idea whether he contributes to them or not. He was repetitive, but entertaining none the less. I miss his contributions. Besides, he wasn't a bafoon. He had certain insight and much of what he said made sense. I know that it's hard to get beyond the way he said things and concentrate on what he says, but I think that those who could make that leap found him quite entertaining and for lack of a better word, profound.

Elk
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud


Quote:
...profound.


Profound?!

Dup?!

Once in a great while he was helpful by supplying the name of a source of parts or the like - these posts I am sure were greatly appreciated by those that requested help.

Xenophanes
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud


Quote:
xenophanes,
I agree that the WSJ test was flawed.
Speaker placement alone could account for the differences.

If they had switched cables in the same system the results would be more compelling. As it is there are too many variables for me to take that test seriously.

I don't see why people get upset over these differences of opinion.

If I think a cable sounds better and I want to spend the money I will buy it. I don't care if the dif I hear is real or not. If it's "real" to me it doesn't matter to me if I can prove it.
OTOH, I have no problem at all accepting my susceptability to the placebo effect in the abscence of a blind test.
Being aware of the placebo effect can save an audiophile money in some cases and I have no argument with that

I have no problem with that!

dbowker
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud

Oh come on Alex--- I KNOW you don't believe your "same ole, same ole" list because you are a frequent poster in many other topics and discourses NOT on your list. The only thing on that list was YOUR take on JVs posts, which again are hardly the bulk of the forum. I mean, as an audio forum the primary purpose is to share information- mostly to the less experienced and in that realm I think it works well.

Take a look at all the questions being asked- that get respectfully answered with a variety of viewpoints. You can argue it's more colorful to have edgy, out in left field, strident viewpoints seeking to stir the pot but I doubt that's why most questions get asked. It's different if you have years of experience and are confident in sparring a bit every now and then- but even that gets annoying if it's more than an occasional match.

DUP just took up too much air most days, and just scared off or confused members who didn't want diatribe, they just wanted perspective.

es347
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud

I'm not a regular poster here and just read the past several pages of this thread. OMIGOSH! The double-blind cable debate has been going on since JGH was a pup and will still be raging whilst Gabriel is blowing his horn. I personally have switched out cable after cable and sat in the sweetspot until blood ran out of my ears. The differences I heard were subtle at best and I can't truly say I really heard differences. Even when you hear differences, discerning which one actually sounds better can be challenging. I bought the MIT speaker cables and IC's anyway because for that kind of money they HAD to have sounded better. If you can hear differences and can afford to spend the $$ then more power to you. Let's face it--a lot of this hobby is aesthetics. Everybody lusts after the high end stuff with it's camera/handgun construction qualities...better than a case of viagra. You guys go ahead and continue the debate...it's a free country...this isn't Russia..."this isn't Russia is it Danny?".

rvance
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud


Quote:
I don't frequent other hi-fi forums, so I have no idea whether he contributes to them or not. He was repetitive, but entertaining none the less. I miss his contributions. Besides, he wasn't a bafoon. He had certain insight and much of what he said made sense. I know that it's hard to get beyond the way he said things and concentrate on what he says, but I think that those who could make that leap found him quite entertaining and for lack of a better word, profound.

AlexO, This is so egregiously wrong it threatens to rip a hole in the time-space continuum. Only in Seinfeld's Reverse World is DUP NOT a buffoon. Whatever "sense" you think he made was completely defeated by epic doses of self-indulgent blather. Bob Beamon could not make the leap you suggest. Entertaining? Like Himmler and cold sores. Profound? Like Toby Keith, but without the keen socio-political insight.

Xenophanes
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Re: Where is that "roll eyes" icon?


Quote:
As I expected, X's presence is purely to be argumentative.

--Ho hum.


Quote:
It is not up to me to decide what things are important to audiophiles. I leave such dictation up to you.


Again, then why are you here?

--Who are you to decide what other people's priorities are? I certainly do not agree to any such thing.

And why won't you state whether you hear a difference between cables - directly and without prevarication?

--It doesn't do much good to say anything to you as you usually ignore it. I have already noted that you ignore the distinction between hearing and perception. Your question is confused and cannot be answered yes or no. It requires some analysis to straighten it out.

--As I have already noted, you have produced no evidence that anyone can hear (meaning detect) differences between 8-10 foot cables suitable for high fidelity, and I am not aware of any. I am not an exception to this.

--As for perception, I have already told you that I am as likely to perceive differences in equipment as anyone else. I am not an exception to perceptual bias.

(BTW, I already commented on the WSJ article.)

--But have you actually commented on the test itself as described in the article?

bifcake
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud


Quote:
Oh come on Alex--- I KNOW you don't believe your "same ole, same ole" list because you are a frequent poster in many other topics and discourses NOT on your list. The only thing on that list was YOUR take on JVs posts, which again are hardly the bulk of the forum. I mean, as an audio forum the primary purpose is to share information- mostly to the less experienced and in that realm I think it works well.

The Entry Level forums work well because everyone tends to be thoughtful and helpful with the newbies. Otherwise, all the conversations revolve among the same stale topics: cables, LPs vs CDs, tubes vs solid state.


Quote:

DUP just took up too much air most days, and just scared off or confused members who didn't want diatribe, they just wanted perspective.

I agree with that. DUP should have toned it down in the newbie forums, but I thought he was perfect for Rants and Raves: He ranted.

tomjtx
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud

actually, allowing DUP to rant in all his glory only in the rants and raves forum is a good idea.
Allow him to post in other forums in a more "genteel" fashion.

DUP's postings on the AVA circle at AC were quite tame, so he is capable of behavior modification

dbowker
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud

"I agree with that. DUP should have toned it down in the newbie forums, but I thought he was perfect for Rants and Raves: He ranted. "

OK- you're right there--- that IS what the Title says, but still... A little DUP goes a long way, a lot is too much and he was frequently far MORE than a lot- more like continuous avalance!

tom collins
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud

maybe his feelings have been hurt and he won't come back? (tongue in cheek)

tom

bifcake
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud

He'll come back. I'm pretty sure.

Elk
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud


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He'll come back. I'm pretty sure.


Absolutely.

tomjtx
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Re: Atkinson & Fremer Do Community Proud


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He'll come back. I'm pretty sure.

I hope so, I'm getting bored with my sig.

Elk
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Re: Where is that "roll eyes" icon?


Quote:
And why won't you state whether you hear a difference between cables - directly and without prevarication?



Quote:
Your question is confused and cannot be answered yes or no. It requires some analysis to straighten it out.


Uh huh. Right.

Everyone else here can answer this question without difficulty, regardless of their position as to cable audibility.

We are waiting . . .

Xenophanes
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Re: Where is that "roll eyes" icon?


Quote:
Your question is confused and cannot be answered yes or no. It requires some analysis to straighten it out.


Uh huh. Right.

Everyone else here can answer this question without difficulty, regardless of their position as to cable audibility.

We are waiting . . .

I did answer your question. I'm not sure whether you didn't understand the answer or just didn't like it.

gkc
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Re: Where is that "roll eyes" icon?

Different cables (like different AC lines, tubes, transistors, or speaker cones) sound different, because anything that passes signal in the audio chain will change the sound. You can either hear it or not (depending on how you listen -- remember, there are some folks who still claim they can't hear the differences between tubes and solid state, between ANY 2 preamps that measure the same, or between analog and digital sources...), or, if you hear it, it may not be worth bothering over. But, the differences are there. Some people who come to my house can't hear the differences among Decca, RCA, EMI/Angel, and Columbia LP's. I just shrug and enjoy the music. But the differences are there.

Sometimes they are worth paying for, sometimes not. We live in a relative world, and value is one of the relatives.

I miss DUP, too. I haven't beaten up on anybody for weeks. After all, he is such an easy target, and who doesn't like the easiest gal who bellies up to the bar?

Happy tunes, all.

tomjtx
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Re: Where is that "roll eyes" icon?

For some reason I doubt that DUP ever felt beat up on

gkc
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Re: Where is that "roll eyes" icon?

That's the whole point, Tom. DUP's forum persona had the same sensitivity concerning his own verbal threshold of pain as he showed for others' -- zero. He might be a "good guy" in person (JA allowed as much, after having met him), but his forum persona had the sensitivity towards others of a rhino, another myopic beast who simply charges every blur within ten yards with no regard for context or reason. A blind stomper, merely. And a redundant one at that. He was an excellent foil, if you were having a bad day and needed someone to throw a few tomatoes at, but, beyond this dubious function, he had nothing positive to contribute. I can take him or leave him.

The wit and wisdom of DUP? Who needs the insults?

Happy tunes.

tomjtx
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Re: Where is that "roll eyes" icon?

I can certainly see your point, Clifton. I understand that DUP could be irritating to some. He got to me a few times too. But I could never support his ban.
Taking or leaving him is probably the best approach for many: The Zen of DUPism

Elk
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Re: Where is that "roll eyes" icon?

And he had no fear of answering a simple, straight forward question.

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Re: Where is that "roll eyes" icon?


Quote:
And he had no fear of answering a simple, straight forward question.

Yes. I've got nothing against DUP, as I've stated before. But if he comes back, and each and every time I find him being abusive to newbies, I'll report him. I believe his behaviour was not the kind needed on this forum, if it is to grow in some fashion. His behaviour was not conducive to attracting folks to the board.

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