AXPONA 2019

ATC SCM50 & SCM50SE Loudspeakers

John Atkinson  |  Apr 16, 2019

Ken Micallef was impressed by this British company's CDA2 Mk.2 CD player/DAC ($4249) when he reviewed it in the January issue, and ATC were using it as the souce in their room at AXPONA. But pride of place went to their SCM50 tower speakers ($22,000/pair, far right in my photo) and the similar-looking SCM50SE powered towers ($60,000/pair, near right). Both speakers use a 9" woofer with ATC's traditional soft-dome midrange unit—all the drive-units are made in-house; even the coils for the crossover inductors are wound by ATC.

With the passive speakers driven by ATCs P2 dual-mono amplifier ($4999), I listened to first a Dire Straits track then Pink Floyd's "Money," following which I listened again to "Money" on the powered speakers. Superficially the presentations were very similar, but it became apparent that the SCM50SEs overall sounded cleaner, more authoritative.

COMMENTS
avanti1960's picture
Submitted by avanti1960 on April 16, 2019 - 10:27am

I know that people have different preferences for what constitutes sound quality but since you are the ears for many we would be best served by if your commentary were as objective yet critical as reasonably possible.
Having heard many of these same systems and rooms it is quite apparent that you do not mention anything critical about how they sound. Being overly polite helps no one, especially the audiophile consumer. I know that audio show conditions are challenging to get the best sound out of a system and room. We would all understand this as a possible effect for bad sounding systems. Many rooms had glaring, obvious sound quality issues that were never mentioned in your reports.
Is it simply impossible for you to call 'em as you hear 'em because it is bad for business?
Sorry to say but your continued lack of criticism in your commentary fails us.

ChrisS's picture
Submitted by ChrisS on April 16, 2019 - 1:21pm

https://www.stereophile.com/content/stenheim-alumine-three-loudspeakers-einstein-silver-bullet-otl-mono-amplifiers-and-pickup#comments

Jim Austin's picture
Submitted by Jim Austin on April 16, 2019 - 2:28pm
Avanti (I'll call you that for lack of a better name), I'm sincerely puzzled by your response to our posts--why is it important to you that Stereophile writers post negative evaluations based on a few minutes listening under show conditions? As Editor, I'm responsible for setting policies like this. The judgments of Stereophile's reviewers carry serious weight and so must be deployed responsibly. A negative comment even in a show report can have serious consequences for a company. That's fine--we'll criticize anyway--but only after we've evaluated a component over time in a methodical, systematic way. Setting aside the question of bad hotel room acoustics, that's impossible to do in 15 minutes of listening in an unknown system in an unknown room--often with unfamiliar music. You will often see our reviewers comment negatively on the sound--but they are appropriately reluctant to draw unwarranted conclusions about ultimate quality from such a cursory experience; to do so would serve neither readers nor audio companies. Stereophile's writers recognize the influence they have and take their obligations seriously. If you were at the show, you can draw your own conclusions. Exactly how have we failed you? Jim Austin, Editor Stereophile
avanti1960's picture
Submitted by avanti1960 on May 1, 2019 - 9:58am

I am circling back on this because it is important to me as a fan of music, sound reproduction and your publication.
Because you are covering an audio show and reporting on the systems featured in these articles, the main function of what you are writing about is reproduction of recorded music. For most readers who are not able to attend the show, the main thing we / they to hear about is how they sounded. You are the ears for all of your readers unable to attend these shows.
We attend the shows (at least I do) to hear how these systems sound, we expect to hear about how they sounded from the publications that report on them, since again they are "audio" shows.
This was the first year of my previous (4) years attending AXPONA that I was not on a mission to research specific components for audition- and I just wanted to attend as many rooms as possible. I took notes and did my own reporting about what I heard, the good and the bad. When I read Stereophile's opinions about the sound of the rooms I had attended it was obvious that you were being overtly polite about what you heard. Most of the issues I heard in some rooms were quite obvious- for whatever reason- room acoustics, etc. Yet there was no mention of these issues in your reporting. In other words I challenge the accuracy of your magazine's descriptions about the sound quality of what was heard. Based on my own notes and observations compared with those that were published, you have failed to be "accurate" ears for those readers who are hoping for honest accounts of the sound quality of these systems. We can understand room acoustics, setup challenges, etc. But when you consciously leave out any critical impressions- and there were many- do you not become guilty of deception by omission? I believe you do. Either report on the good and not so good about what you hear- or just leave out the subjective commentary altogether like other publications do.
Peace and with all due respect,

Tony
Suburban Chicago area.

ChrisS's picture
Submitted by ChrisS on May 1, 2019 - 7:05pm

I don't need or want the Stereophile staff to expend much time or ink telling me that the sound of a system in a hotel room isn't exemplary...

There is nothing to gain.

avanti1960's picture
Submitted by avanti1960 on May 2, 2019 - 10:09am

is for audio journalists reporting about an audio show to share their critical impressions along with the positive ones- in the name of accuracy and transparency.
they are quick with the praise but very reluctant to share the things they don't like about what they hear. otherwise why bother covering an audio show at all? mention the bad with the good or there is deception by omission and quite honestly a loss of credibility.

ChrisS's picture
Submitted by ChrisS on May 2, 2019 - 2:41pm

It's quite unreasonable to expect anyone to listen and evaluate "critically" under conditions that are far from ideal. It would also be tedious and uninformative to be told again and again that "listening conditions were far from ideal..."

Deception? Loss of credibility?

I think not.

allhifi's picture
Submitted by allhifi on July 10, 2019 - 9:36am

ChrisS: You said:

" It would also be tedious and uninformative to be told again and again that "listening conditions were far from ideal..."

And you are right. It's NOT rocket science to ensure a pleasant (heck even memorable) listening experience.

peter jasz

allhifi's picture
Submitted by allhifi on July 11, 2019 - 5:57am

Avanti: You're absolutely right: conventional magazines inability to provide such balance I suspect primarily due to poor writer/listening skill accounts for the eventual demise of such platforms.

Let's face it, the collaborative efforts routinely realized via audio blogs offers MUCH greater insights.

In Stereophile's great favor is their loosening (if not complete elimination) of crippling censorship behavior -conspicuously endemic to North American publications interestingly enough. The irony of the great, Land of the Free censoring any/all in response to critical replies. That in itself is laudable.
May Stereophile find a niche that satisfies today's consumer interests.

peter jasz

allhifi's picture
Submitted by allhifi on July 9, 2019 - 1:40am

Tony: Well said !

peter jasz

allhifi's picture
Submitted by allhifi on July 9, 2019 - 2:20am

Mr. Jim Austin: You ask why ? That was well articulated by Tony.

Although I see the concern involved as it relates to manufacture's with so much invested in their business and participation at such Audio/Hi-Fi shows, Tony points out CORRECTLY that your job (the writer/reviewer's) is to, as Tony says: " be the 'ears' for those who are unable to attend directly. That's not much to ask. In fact, it's expected.

The problem with your 'take' (interpretation is flawed for a couple reasons:
1) Others no doubt experienced under-performing Hi-Fi (SQ) at these shows; I know I have, repeatedly. In fact, far too many sounded terrible. So then we have "reader's" at odds with your writer's remarks. Not good.

2) But most importantly, if non-audiophiles were present at these shows (or worse yet Budding Audiophiles) and experienced such poor/underwhelming sound, they'd be turned off -and likely run for the doors if experienced throughout the show. Perhaps wondering "Why?", they very well may turn to your magazines "professional" take on the matter. And if they read that your guys were waxing poetic (or simply being far too gracious -regarding observed SQ at the show) they're left thinking one of two things; "Wow, I just don't get 'Hi-Fi'", or worse: "If that's what it's all about/sounds like -I'm not at all interested. Both not good.

Yet there is an even more ominous undercurrent; and that's by audiophiles themselves wondering/questioning that all the fanciful press (and very high - priced offerings) is nothing more than advertising BS. Also, not good.

I've been involved in this business long enough (with commensurate experience and expertise) to tell you that in spite of 'Show Conditions', excellent sound is possible -in fact it should be expected. It's really not that 'complex'.
So it's a poor excuse for manufacturer's to use, particularly since there's always several rooms (at typical/all Shows) that sound impressive !

And lastly, if Exhibitor's feedback is all rosy, it's misleading and nonconstructive; no reason to change/examine anything if feedback is distorted or less than genuine.

But what always really stuns me is how room 'operator's' (Exhibitors themselves) not hear how shitty it sounds ?? It makes one both question (and/or realize) that there must be some real flakes (non-audiophiles) left in charge at these shows.

If the industry wishes to grow and become successful, they best be examining absolutely everything to ensure highly memorable SQ experience is what visitor's walk away with, as opposed to (understandably) disappointing laughter -or worse genuine tears.

It's a collective effort to ensure a good outcome/Show, and I believe industry 'watch-dog/Magazine support must be there in a tough but constructive capacity to ensure both honest reporting but no less that there will remain future interest/consumer's.

peter jasz
(P.S> Good call, Tony -in Michigan ! )

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on April 16, 2019 - 11:10am

ATC powered speakers have many favorable reviews ...... Some of those reviews are available online ...... ATC also supplies many active speakers to the recording studios :-) ........

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on April 17, 2019 - 4:00am

The price mentioned in the report for ATC SCM 50 ASLT active speaker may not be correct ...... The price is more like $30,000/pair ........ This model was reviewed in TAS :-) .........

Jim Austin's picture
Submitted by Jim Austin on April 17, 2019 - 5:01am
The report refers to the SCM 50SE, not the SCM 50 ASL.
Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on April 17, 2019 - 5:12am

True ..... but the price difference between the passive and active versions is almost $40,000 ...... Seems like somewhat unrealistic ........ The model designation also may not be correct :-) .......

AleksATCLMA's picture
Submitted by AleksATCLMA on April 19, 2019 - 12:52pm

Hi hope to provide some clarification on the models here, I am the marketing manager for ATC's USA distributor Lone Mountain Audio. I also am one of the reps to attend our shows including this one. Jim is correct, at AXPONA we displayed the SCM50SE which is part of the Special Edition series. Special Editions feature the premium contoured cabinet design, distinct top brow, and fully discrete amplifiers for each driver in the amp pack. The high gloss piano black finish is also a premium option on this model. The passive SCM50 Rosewood tower at this show is from the Tower Series, which in an active version is more around $30k (depending on finish) as you thought. The Tower Series active loudspeaker features non-discrete amps and a more understated square edged cabinet and base design as you may see in the photo. Here are links to respective product pages on our site:

http://www.lonemountainaudio.com/loudspeakers/special-editions/scm50se/

http://www.lonemountainaudio.com/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm50aslt/

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on April 19, 2019 - 1:10pm

Thanks for your reply and clarification :-) .........

AleksATCLMA's picture
Submitted by AleksATCLMA on April 19, 2019 - 1:14pm

You're quite welcome, happy to help!

avanti1960's picture
Submitted by avanti1960 on May 2, 2019 - 4:25pm

if all they only mention the positives of what they hear?
they are sharing their impressions about how things sound and many people are anxiously anticipating what they have to say.
Debut speaker Brand X- "had this old geezer rocking"
Failed to mention- sounded thin and brittle with no warmth that people expect from this brand.
Debut speaker Brand Y- "full range, clean and with superb imaging"
Failed to mention- overly warm with smeared detail, distinctive voicing not for everyone"
System C- "sounded clean and authoritative"
Failed to mention- midrange was borderline surgical, high frequency incoherence and image wandering.

I'm finished. It's a self serving industry and they aren't about to cannibalize their existence by telling it as they hear it. In other words deception and lack of honest reporting pure and simple because to do otherwise is bad for business. Too much fluff and glad handing. Such a shame.

ChrisS's picture
Submitted by ChrisS on May 2, 2019 - 6:33pm

...know what the good folks at Stereophile do...

Do you?

avanti1960's picture
Submitted by avanti1960 on July 9, 2019 - 9:37am

Yes.

ChrisS's picture
Submitted by ChrisS on May 2, 2019 - 5:21pm

...at these events, then you'll just have to do it yourself!

You give the impression that you do not read Stereophile equipment reviews...

Do you?

ChrisS's picture
Submitted by ChrisS on May 2, 2019 - 6:54pm

...part of your comments above...

Did you make those up?

avanti1960's picture
Submitted by avanti1960 on July 9, 2019 - 9:56am

all of those impressions were written soon after hearing the above rooms. the comments about the surgical midrange and wandering image were what i heard in the ATC room. their large 3-way monitors gave off a surgical sound in the typical studio monitor tradition. the image wandered among the drivers because a dome midrange has a very limited bandwidth compared to a cone midrange driver. i specifically heard vocal images shift up and down along the height of the speaker as the frequency handoffs were being made. it was very obvious and I believe worth mentioning. someone contemplating a purchase might want to know these things- i know i would.

avanti1960's picture
Submitted by avanti1960 on July 9, 2019 - 9:38am

Yes, all the time. and I did cover the show in a stream of consciousness online blog.

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