Analog Corner

Analog Corner # 305: Degritter record cleaner & Aidas Gala Gold LE cartridge

Michael Fremer  |  Dec 21, 2020

Cavitation revolutionized record cleaning more than a decade ago, when Reiner Gläss's Audiodesksysteme introduced its original fully automatic machine. Mr. Gläss's innovative machine, which automatically spun the record in ultrasonically cavitated water, then dried it with fans, at first was plagued with reliability issues, and because it is sealed, it was not easy to repair.

Like many manufacturers, Mr. Gläss relied upon outside vendors to supply some of the internals, including the pump, which pushes the water up from the reservoir and into the cleaning chamber. Unfortunately for Mr. Gläss and his customers, many pumps failed, and in short order, the Audiodesksysteme RCM got a less-than-enviable reputation for (un)reliability. I avoided reviewing it until reader feedback assured me that the problems many had experienced with the early units had been solved. I reviewed it enthusiastically in 2012; Fred Kaplan followed up with an equally enthusiastic review. I bought the review sample and have had a great, though not perfect, experience with it.

For 4 years or so, Audiodesksysteme pretty much had the cavitation-based record-cleaning field to itself. The advantages over vacuum-type machines are obvious: It cleans better and avoids static electricity because there's no dry rubbing.

Circa 2013, Klaudio introduced its version of a fully automatic, cavitation-based record cleaning machine; I reviewed it on Analog Planet. That machine's build quality and feature set were in many ways superior to those of the Audiodesksysteme. It was metal, featured robust handles that made it easier to carry to a sink to drain water, and had an easily accessed stainless-steel storage tank and a few other good ideas. Its "clamshell" design made getting it open for repair easy, but to ensure the gasket's reliability, Klaudio voided the warranty if you used any kind of surfactant or detergent—anything but plain water. I think a surfactant/detergent is critical to grease-cutting and breaking water's natural surface tension so that the water can reach the dirt inside the record's grooves.

In August of 2019, Klaudio's Peter Cheon exited the market, announcing in a letter that the company couldn't profitably build the cavitation device, which is a shame since friends who own one (or two) are extremely happy with them and swear by their cleaning abilities and reliability. Cheon said the company would continue to honor the warranty and provide service for as long as possible.

I never understood why Cheon didn't just raise the price to where he could make a profit. After all, the demand for a circa-$4000 record-cleaning machine must be pretty much inelastic: Anyone who's willing to spend $4000 on a record cleaner is probably willing to spend significantly more. But that's just speculation, and Mr. Cheon (whose day job is in industrial water management, which he describes in this video I shot at Munich High End 2014) has chosen to concentrate his efforts on his tangential-tracking, pivoted tonearm, which I reviewed in this column in January 2019.

A few "off the shelf," China-sourced "vat"-type cavitation machines have been introduced to the market, adapted for record cleaning (but not drying) by adding barbecue-spit–type spinners. The late David Ratcliff's V-8 machine was popular; in time he added a sophisticated filtration system and then a drying mechanism, both of which took up a great deal of room and added complexity. Since his death, his company and his record-cleaning machine have vanished.

I have never been confident about the most appropriate cavitation power and frequency for record cleaning—or whether any of these entrepreneurs has ever carefully researched it. It's important, because the wrong choices could result in ineffective cleaning or—much worse—damage to your records. I'd be cautious about buying a machine just because it's cheap.

There's also Charles Kirmuss, whose Kirmuss Audio markets a China-sourced vat-type machine that's modified to his specifications and topped with an innovative, motorized record-spinning system. Of all the vat-type cleaners, it's by far the most convenient and easy to use. Kirmuss is eccentric, but he's done the research, much of which he's forwarded to me. I'm confident that, used properly, the Kirmuss machine won't damage your records. I'm also a believer in the efficacy of his machine as part of his record restoration system, which is designed to strip years of accumulated crud from the grooves that he claims other cleaning machines leave behind.

Kirmuss's $970 machine (that price includes accessories) can also be used for more casual, two-minute cleaning of records that aren't too dirty. It still requires hand-drying, but with microfiber cloths, that takes less time than you might think. I used his laborious restoration process on my original UK Track Records (613 013/4) pressing of Tommy and on one of two UK copies of The Beatles (the copy I bought new in 1968—Apple Records PMC 7067/8) and became an instant believer. The improvement in clarity and high frequencies wasn't subtle. I'd thought it was wear resulting from 50 years of playing, but it washed right off in half an hour.

I see that Mr. Kirmuss recently delivered a paper titled "LED Full Spectrum vs HPS/White LED; Why Full Spectrum will become the Norm in the Cannabis Industry." I'm happy to do some A/B testing.

The Degritter Record-Cleaning Machine
The recently introduced, fully automatic, cavitation-based Degritter ($2990) is designed and manufactured in Estonia (footnote 1). It is the first fully automatic machine to be introduced since the Klaudio, and with that one gone, it shares an otherwise open field with the Audiodeskesysteme. Beta testing began in the fall of 2017, and the company began selling in the spring of 2019.

1220acornjan.degrit2

The Degritter's art-deco/classic radio appearance easily wins the best-looking record-cleaning machine contest. You'd probably be happy to display it in your listening room. Visitors who don't know what it is might try tuning to their favorite radio station—at least older visitors, who still know what a radio is. You can see the Degritter in action demonstrated by Degritter CEO Taniel Põld in Analog Planet's High End Munich 2019 video coverage.

The first thing to like about the Degritter is the well-written, well-illustrated, English-language instruction manual. It's better composed than many manuals written by companies where the native language is English. It includes an informative discussion about cavitation.

An ultrasonic generator agitates the cleaning medium (water, plain or with surfactant) with high-frequency pressure waves that produce microscopic (approximately 2.5µm) bubbles. Those bubbles grow and collapse, releasing heat and tiny, powerful jets of water that can loosen and remove dirt from the record grooves, tarnish from jewelry, and so on. (So, that "Scrubbing Bubbles" headline is cute but not accurate: The bubbles themselves don't scrub; rather, it's water jets far smaller than either the smallest record crevice or the smallest carbon-fiber bristle, which by the way is about 60µm.)

The Degritter works similarly to the Audiodesk, but it's different in some ways, too. A 12" record goes vertically into a slot—an adapter for 7" singles is available for $80—and water is pumped into the chamber before cavitation and record rotation begins. Unlike the hidden-away Audiodesk tank, the Degritter's water tank (capacity 0.35 gallons) sits at the back of the unit and can easily be pulled up and out by a handle for water disposal and tank-cleaning. You can even wash the tank in the dishwasher if you feel the need—and you may feel the need after you clean a bunch of very dirty records. There's also a filtering system that removes small particles from the water during the cleaning process. Easily accessible from the machine's side, it contains a permanent cylindrical mesh outer filter and a replaceable inner foam one.

Degritter comes clean about its chosen cavitation power (300W) and frequency (120kHz) as well as the location of its four ultrasonic transducers, two each, on either side of the record. It claims its ultrasonic amplifier has been designed specifically for record cleaning, including a "fine frequency sweep" feature the company says provides better cavitation energy and power distribution. It chose 120kHz—other companies use different frequencies—because it says the lower frequency produces smaller, more effective bubbles.

1220acornjan.degritbac

There are two buttons; either will turn the machine on. The left-front button adjusts drying time, which you can set to whatever time you find necessary to get your records dry. The right button rotates to navigate the sophisticated menu system; push it to choose a setting. There are three cleaning-time presets: quick (2:15), medium (3:45), and heavy (6:45). (Dirtier records need longer cleaning; drying time is set separately.) The right button also allows you to adjust fan power and water level as well as certain "housekeeping" functions I won't go into here.

The machine comes with a bottle of surfactant; you can use your own fluid, which is strongly discouraged by Audiodesksysteme. Proceed with caution and avoid highly acidic and highly alkaline solutions. Also avoid solutions that foam, or you might end up in an I Love Lucy sketch. Should a malfunction occur, the right-hand button alerts you with a code that identifies the problem. Some problems are user-fixable.

To prevent excess cavitation-produced heat from damaging records, the OS automatically adds 3 minutes of cooling time when a sensor detects temperatures above 95°. The ultrasonic generator stops working, too.

Footnote 1: Degritter, Estonia. Tel: +372 5884 8839. (Customer support language is English.) Web: degritter.com. US Distributor: Music Direct, 1118 W. Bryn Mawr Ave. Chicago, IL 60660. Tel: (312) 738-5025. Web: musicdirect.com.
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ARTICLE CONTENTS

COMMENTS
tonykaz's picture
Submitted by tonykaz on December 21, 2020 - 11:33am

Cleaning 10 records per day, how long to clean the entire collection?

how much for the needed solution ?,

can the Solution be filtered and recycled ?

Is it even worth the effort considering our leading golden Ears Audiophiles never seem to mention cleaning their collections.

As far as I can tell, New Audiophile vinyl records come from Chad having NOT been cleaned, why is that ?

Do Vinyl 33.3 Pressing plants recommend cleaning the vinyl ?, if so is there a recommended method ?

How much floor space is suggested for a proper installation of a fully functional record cleaning station ?

It would be nice and appropriate for a qualified audiophile to comparatively audition both the before and after cleaned record, wouldn't it ?

So now, I'm pondering, is this a product review or a product promotion ?

Tony in Venice

ps. I've cleaned every 33.3 Vinyl record I've ever owned, numerous times !

Jim Austin's picture
Submitted by Jim Austin on December 21, 2020 - 1:28pm
So now, I'm pondering, is this a product review or a product promotion ?
Tony, it is a review--or, to be more precise, it is a column, which at Stereophile is not the same thing. What it is not is a product promotion--which suggests some quid pro quo. Such casual cynicism is tiresome and will not be tolerated indefinitely. Jim Austin, Editor Stereophile
tonykaz's picture
Submitted by tonykaz on December 21, 2020 - 2:23pm

Dear Sir,
Your own staff have revealed that they have gear on long term loan, which is typical of Automotive Industry practices.

I did not "suggest" as you accuse, so , why do you respond with threats ?

I, as a vinyl devotee since it's 1950s introduction, ponder the utility of this cleaning device.

If we are discussing a "Column" and not a "Review" and I'm writing opinion in the public Comments section, opinion begging for a technical response to a technical question, why not respond with the Product specifics.

I have represented and sold VPI & Nitty Gritty cleaning machines along with a full line of High End Vinyl gear. I own a Fine Record collection.

This is an Analytical subject and discussion, not an emotionally adversarial one.

Tony in Venice

ps. This a Big Tent

Jim Austin's picture
Submitted by Jim Austin on December 21, 2020 - 2:31pm

Tony, you are being disingenuous, or perhaps dishonest with yourself. In any case, you are mischaracterizing your own comment.

So now, I'm pondering, is this a product review or a product promotion

This is an accusation masquerading as a question--and it is, of course, the problem. The rest of your message is of little interest or concern.

Stereophile writers and editors do their jobs with integrity--and guard their reputations jealously. We run an honest shop--one of very few still in existence from what I hear. Do not expect to make such comments casually on our own website and experience no pushback.

I will not continue this conversation. If you continue, you will earn a Stereophile vacation.

Jim Austin, Editor
Stereophile

tonykaz's picture
Submitted by tonykaz on December 21, 2020 - 2:57pm

Cancel my subscription.

I won't tolerate your threats and accusations !

Tony in Venice

JRT's picture
Submitted by JRT on December 22, 2020 - 10:30am

Have you been listening to any vinyl recently? I had been under the impression, perhaps false impression, that you were listening solely to streamed digital audio with playback through headphones.

Jack L's picture
Submitted by Jack L on December 26, 2020 - 11:26am

........ an emotionally adversarial one." quoted Tony.

I buy yr above statement, my friend.

Users of record cleaning machines, IMO, are kinda sorta members of a "cult".

You may label me a cheapskate as I never spent a penny on a cleaning machine for my 1,000+ LP collection (95% classical music).

I think I've managed to get the best sound out of my beloved music vinyl without such 'capital investment' in a record cleaning machine.

How? WET play! It's that basic & simple. I started wet play when I first started playing vinyl a few years back.

The worst thing of playing vinyl is the static noises caused by the discharge of static electricity when the stylus comes in contact with the DRY record groove sides. The most effective method to kill the static discharge is moisture !! So wet play it.

Talking about dirt trapped inside the record grooves, we never leave any record outside of its sleeve unless being played. So the change of getting dust inside the microscopic grooves is not big at all even it is spinning.

So besides static & dust, what else ?

Before I start to play any LPs (new or preowned) for the first time, I always rinse them in a bath of ionized distilled water to wash out any trapped dirt on them & then hang them dry.

I always wet up the spinning LP by with ionized distilled water by applying it with a nylon paint brush before playing.

Wet play makes the music sounds so so so much more FLUID than dry play besides being so static noise free. I compared intensively wet vs dry play & have finally settled down for WET play strictly on sound quality ground.

Ionized distilled water I have chosen measured 100% pure = 0 mpp using my brandnamed water purity tester. Available in 4-lire (3.8gallon) plastic bottle, dirt dirt cheap from my neigbourhood grocery store.
NO, absolutely no additional chemicals.

Sorry, no cleaning machines needed for my huge LP collection.

Listening is believing

Jack L

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on December 29, 2020 - 12:37pm

Has already ruined your cartridge. You just don't yet know it.

Jack L's picture
Submitted by Jack L on December 29, 2020 - 3:10pm

Hi

How do you know? Hearsay or what?

From my 3 years+ wet-play experience using the same MM cartriige, I've proven your opinion above is an unfounded myth.

The ever powerful vibrant voice of Mario Lanza, the American Caruso, the opera tenor I adore most, who beat, IMO, the 300lb Italian high-C king: Pavarotti, still sound same same since day one of my vinyl switch over.

I clean my MM cartridge stylus every time I start to play, I still do not notice any damage done to the stylus as of today.

May I suggest NOT going by hearsay without first trying it out.

Listening is believing

Jack L

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on December 29, 2020 - 12:53pm

The manufacturer was certain that the way it works is, once the review is finished, the reviewer gets to keep the product. He only said this when I asked how he wished it returned. He was genuinely surprised that I was not going to keep it as a "present" because I assume that's been his experience with reviewers around the world. I shipped the unit back to Estonia yesterday. This makes all the more odious Tony's insinuations about my integrity and my having written a "promotional" piece. Damn forking annoying actually. Pardon my use of a utensil.

dronepunkFPV's picture
Submitted by dronepunkFPV on December 29, 2020 - 8:29pm

I just want to add that that I have purchased a few vintage carts from Victor thru either eb4y, Aidas or Vira USA and have been happy.
He sent me an Aidas “Black Sound Red Heart” MC to try out -unsolicited.
I absolutely loved it...
I hope Aidas cartridges get more ink, I think they are incredible.
I am listening to Jesus Lizard -Liar reissue and it sounds better than ever!
“Not a hard rock cartridge” my arse....
A good cartridge is a good cartridge.
Wow, I have read more exciting paragraphs describing toilet paper.
I guess only Lyra and Soundsmith get the flowery prose.
I am a huge fan of both brands -J Carr& P. Ledermann are inspiring personalities.
Maybe I’m just an underdog rooting for an underdog.
No harm meant, just wished for something more formal for a small company.
Please, more freaking cartridge reviews.
Thanks,
Johnny in Venison......

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on December 21, 2020 - 2:17pm

What appears implicit now has been explicit in the past.

MF and others have tested, auditioned and reported their findings in the past.

With all due respect to you and your knowledge, I'm beginning to think you got out of analog too early and missed many of the transformations in analog over the last 2 decades.

If I had the dough for a real record cleaner these days, this would be it. Price/value, efficacy, ease of operation... it's a refined design.

tonykaz's picture
Submitted by tonykaz on December 21, 2020 - 2:45pm

I never got out ! ( I travel extensively )

I'm asking important questions:

1.) What is the recommended maintenance for the New & Improved Vinyl from Acoustic ? I owned injection moulding equipment and fully realise the mould release needing to be washed off. Where is the discussion about this ?

Well, it just seems like 33.3 people are ultra defensive and thin skinned.

Vinyl is a hot topic. I just got a catalog from Music Direct with 36 record players ranging in price from $1,000 to $40,000. It's right up front in the Catalog! It's like 33.3 Vinyl is the hottest thing.

So, is vinyl back, in it's full Glory ?

Obviously it's a protected Species just now, was it endangered ?

Tony in Venice

ps. I'm getting word that it looks as if we will get the Vaccination around Febuary'ish. I won't need it, I already have developed immunity.

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on December 21, 2020 - 4:30pm

First off and Happy Holidays (since I practice more than one this time of year too)... but God bless on the Corona, no matter who you are.

And yes, Vinyl is back in full glory. There is something about analog creating an event in time and space that will always sound like reproduction of an event and excitingly real.

There are also soooo many of great releases these days and sound to match it. Lots of rushed pressing jobs too, but let's understand everyone is going bonkers for LP's, even this year.

Digital's come a long way but if one is committed to the vinyl investment for decades, there is only forward to the state of the art in one's personal investment for giving me musical nourishment(!) and deep discovery.

I own several AP 'Doors releases from them (others too) and they were very quiet on first play, which is after a very quick spin on a last generation Record Doctor with Audio Intelligent No.6, as always. After a 1st clean with that, little work to make it happy.

$300 these days for really solid vacuum cleaning isn't a lot. (Don't get me started on static in the winter time... on carpet! The devil's playground!!) Furutech, here I come!

I think the takeaway is get back into it is take what you have now and work a great cart like the Hana ML in there somewhere.

Stereophile's analog recommends have been on-point this year. The PS Audio Stellar is really transparent. MF ain't blowing smoke! Neither is HR! (Well, I don't know them personally...lol.)

Jack L's picture
Submitted by Jack L on December 29, 2020 - 3:39pm

Hi

How "ultra defensive" & "thin skinned" ?

Jack

tonykaz's picture
Submitted by tonykaz on December 29, 2020 - 3:42pm

retrospectively, I might've been referring to myself.

Tony in Venice Florida

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on December 29, 2020 - 12:49pm

1) I believe I wrote that the basic cycle takes 5:45 seconds but it's adjustable depending upon how dirty is the record.
2) The tank requires a small pipette's worth of solution for each 100 or so records. A full bottle (100ml) costs $34.95. That will last a very, very long time even if you drink some.
3) I'm sure i wrote there's a filter but come on, that's a stupid question. You dump it after 100 or so records and start over.
4) We all clean our records. We don't mention it for the same reason we don't alert you when we take a piss. Would you like me to? Happy to oblige with photos. P.S.: I don't filter my pee.
5) Pressing plants are not 'clean rooms'. Records don't arrive clean or cleaned.
6) Pressing plants press records. They don't offer record cleaning advice. Not their job.
7) This machine takes up the space of a toaster. If you wish to do a follow up cleaning with just water, the space is two toasters.
8) I've written many times about 'before and after' comparing new records and used using various methods. So has Fred Kaplan and probably our late friend Art Dudley.
9) Your pondering is a waste of time. It would be insulting were it not so lame.
P.S.: I'm glad you've cleaned your records numerous times. At the very least it keeps you out of trouble on what used to be called West Washington Blvd.

Please do whatever it takes to get some disagreeable treatment. It's legal now.

Anton's picture
Submitted by Anton on December 21, 2020 - 11:38am

How many records do you have that need cleaning?

Give us a sense about your place in the vinyl aspect of audiophilia, without using past tense.

AaronGarrett's picture
Submitted by AaronGarrett on December 21, 2020 - 12:18pm

You might enjoy these very cool records -- there's a subscription option -- from Adrian Younge recorded in his fabulous LA studio. The latest one is two 45s (and very reasonably priced). Great new music and great sonics converge! https://jazzisdead.bandcamp.com/subscribe

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on December 21, 2020 - 2:19pm

Really brilliant idea on their behalf. I hope that it's consistent, but one should/would be patient with the pressings every 2 months...

Anton's picture
Submitted by Anton on December 21, 2020 - 2:25pm

There is currently a Kickstarter campaign for an ultrasonic record cleaner called Humminguru that looks amazing for the price.

I have no vested interest, so will not even post a link.

You can Google the product.

It's Kickstarter, so the usual caveats apply.

jamesgarvin's picture
Submitted by jamesgarvin on December 21, 2020 - 5:54pm

I must admit to being a little puzzled why Michael did not compare this machine with the Kirmuss machine, given that the Degritter costs significantly more than the Kirmuss machine, Michael referenced the Kirmuss machine in his column, and Michael has positively reviewed and subsequently commented upon the Kirmuss machine. What does this machine do for the extra coin that the Kirmuss machine does not? Seems to me like a question begging for an answer.

volvic's picture
Submitted by volvic on December 21, 2020 - 9:44pm

The Degritter will dry the record for you which the Kirmuss will not, you have to wipe it down manually with a supplied cloth. Also, the Degritter uses a different frequency than the Kirmuss said to be gentler. I will get one but my first major purchase might be the Sugarcube, I do know someone who has one and swears by it and I know someone who has the Degritter and swears by that as well. Decisions, decisions.

Jack Pot's picture
Submitted by Jack Pot on December 22, 2020 - 3:42am

To add a little to the confusion.

I reiterate some of my conclusions, that I shared in a comment to the review of the Kirmuss.
Cleaning records with ultrasound RCMs yields stunning sonic improvements. Also – especially? - on brand new records.
I only have experience with the Audiodesk RCM machine, having used a Spin Clean Record Washer before. The use of the latter did NOT result in any SONIC improvement.
I do not sympathize with Audiodesk because Herr Glass brought onto the market unreliable machines which would irreparably break down over time (check out the complaints on the internet! I discovered I was not alone…). I exchanged my broken one with the latest iteration and had to pay a hefty trade-in price (still cheaper than switching to a Degritter). This latest iteration – The Original – is a much more mature design and highly effective, if used properly. And therein lies the rub.
Paul Rigby – the Audiophile Man – researched the subject in depth. Ultrasound RCM manufacturers are wrong. They request that their “secret” surfactant be added to the water in the tank of the ultrasound cleaner. As a result, the surface of the record emerges contaminated with surfactant residue after the wash/dry cycle. This is embarrassingly audible (see below). I follow Paul’s recommendation. The surfactant, in my case diluted Tergikleen, must be dripped onto the record surface and gently spread with a kabuki brush. The record can then be washed/ dried in the RCM which contains only demineralized water to which 1% isopropyl alcohol has been added. Replace the water in the tank every 50 discs or so. Paul’s methodology spectacularly improves the sound of records, also of those which I had previously cleaned in the Audiodesk using the manufacturer’s method (!!!)
I am now at the stage of cleaning – again - my record collection.
To answer a few questions by your readers: I subject each record to two washing cycles of 5 minutes each. Followed by a final 4 min drying cycle. Applying the surfactant to the record prior to washing takes 2 minutes.
Record manufacturers are mute on the subject. Paul Rigby has formed a reasoned opinion as to why that is.
The longevity of LPs is most probably unaffected. But the full glory of vinyl cannot be appreciated without cleaning LPs in such a machine (or perhaps RCMs based on different principles).
Given the vast improvements RCMs confer to vinyl playing, reviewers should systematically research the subject and share their conclusions with readers. Shootouts between various offerings should reveal spectacular differences. (My guess? provided the surfactant is applied properly, all ultrasound RCMs should yield similar results. Be it a Kirmuss at usd 970 or an Audiodesk at usd 4000. Price, reliability, footprint, and convenience should then become the prevailing criteria. I cannot judge on non-ultrasound RCMs).

ghn5ue's picture
Submitted by ghn5ue on December 22, 2020 - 6:48am

One of my favorite things about this machine is the removeable water tank. You can buy extras as accessories, and having two means you can have one filled with a surfactant solution and the other with just distilled water. You can then run a wash cycle without dry and after that is done swap to the water only tank and run a short cycle with dry. I think the lack of rinse is the fatal flaw with many of the record cleaning systems out there. I can't wait to get my own Degritter!

Jack Pot's picture
Submitted by Jack Pot on December 23, 2020 - 2:19am

Hi there,

I have experimented quite a bit with surfactants. Never add the surfactant to the water in the tank. Apply it in diluted form directly to the LP prior the RCM treatment. The sonic improvements are spectacular. Save yourself the hassle of 2 tanks and the disappointment of perhaps suboptimal results. Also: check out Audiophileman.

Old Audiophile's picture
Submitted by Old Audiophile on December 22, 2020 - 9:15am

Want to save some money, clean more records simultaneously and achieve the same results? Check out CleanerVinyl.com.

Jack Pot's picture
Submitted by Jack Pot on December 23, 2020 - 2:28am

Excellent recommendation. Can Stereophile carefully check-out the offerings on the market? I know usd 350 RCMs are not as sexy as usd 150.000 turntables, but the latter are rather useless without the former! Stereophile sould at the same time take the opportunity to explore the methods of applying surfactants - and which perform best - and alternatives to ultrasound RCMs (a.o. Clearaudio RCMs). Tedious, but ultimately very rewarding.

JRT's picture
Submitted by JRT on December 22, 2020 - 10:22am

For cleaning vinyl LP records, does this device or something like it work as well or better than using a thin coating of Franklin International Titebond-II PVA carpentry adhesive?

Anton's picture
Submitted by Anton on December 22, 2020 - 11:14am

I have played with that and did not note much benefit, but love my Audiodesk.

Perhaps people with more experience with the 'glue method' can chime in!

Old Audiophile's picture
Submitted by Old Audiophile on December 23, 2020 - 6:36am

Jack Pot (great handle!) and for others interested, Mr. Fremer has already done an excellent review of the CleanerVinyl system on Analog Planet. Here's a link: https://www.analogplanet.com/content/cleanervinylcoms-reasonaly-priced-multi-lp-cavitation-based-recod-cleaning-system
Further, for those interested in the method to my madness you can check out "My Take" in the Comments section. I cannot, honestly, compare my results with this system with those of the 3 and 4 thousand dollar machines on the market because I've never used one of those but I can assure you this beats cleaning or washing records by hand, by a long shot!

adrianwu's picture
Submitted by adrianwu on December 23, 2020 - 9:26pm

I was one of the early adopters, having bought one from the first batch of machines on Indiegogo and having to wait a year to have it delivered. I have been very happy with it. I used an Audiodesk until it broke, and a VPI 16.5 for 15 years before that. The Degritter is clearly superior. Heavily soiled records still needs to be pre-cleaned, but I clean all LPs before listening. As one of the readers mentioned above, I have a second water tank that only contains distilled water for rinsing. The original machine developed a fault a couple of months ago, and Degritter sent me a new replacement machine right away without charge. The problem had been fixed on all the new machines. To be honest, I listen mostly to master tapes nowadays, but I am still surprised how good LPs can sound amazingly close after proper cleaning.

tonykaz's picture
Submitted by tonykaz on December 29, 2020 - 3:38pm

Establish you cred by showing receipts for gear, like public officials are expected to do.

As a Manufacturer, we supply reviewers with "complimentary" not "paid for".

Tony in Venice Florida

misterc59's picture
Submitted by misterc59 on December 30, 2020 - 7:22am

If you want to go this route, then I suppose all reviewers/contributors MUST do the same to prove their credibility, perhaps for each review? Unbelievable. I hold Stereophile to a high standard and many if not most of the reviewers have decades of experience. I think if they had been disingenuous in the past, they would not be contributing to this publication.
Your comment reminds me of an outgoing politician who annoyingly and antagonistically was unrelenting in demanding birther proof resulting in a HUGE waste of time and resources.

Regards,
Terry

tonykaz's picture
Submitted by tonykaz on December 30, 2020 - 9:59am

We live in a Capitalistic Business world. Everything is for profit and for money.
Reviewers aren't Charities, Audio Magazines are not Charities, are you a charity? Do you pay for your Stereophile subscription ? I do !

As a manufacturer I expect somewhat honest reviewing from insightful reviewers, the more insightful the better. I don't expect Reviewers to have to purchase Audio Gear ( which is frightfully expensive for a not so well paid review person )

We should keep in mind that everything a Magazine publishes is Opinion ( with the exception of John Atkinson's measurements ).

You can hold and cherish all the opinions you may have, they will remain challengeable opinions until proven with established facts.

I do know of reviewers that have paid for gear, it's the rare exception more than the established norm.

Besides; even when an "influencer" buys, is it established on what basis the pay is arranged ?

I am not at all angry about any of this. I'm not on a mission to correct our cozy little system. Reviewers can choose to keep gear on a long term basis, which is how I identify which gear is outstanding and which gear is so-so.

Reviewers are low paid individuals, I'm thankful for the service they perform.

Tony in Venice Florida

Old Audiophile's picture
Submitted by Old Audiophile on April 14, 2021 - 7:00am

I've been doing a fair amount of reading & research (always dangerous) on ultrasonic cleaning specifically applied to cleaning vinyl or PVC records for about the last 4 or 5 years now. This has involved direct contact (i.e. email exchanges) with some of the major manufacturers of tabletop and much larger ultrasonic machines used for medical applications and in clean rooms for the manufacture of microchips, semiconductors, integrated circuits and things like that. I'm not a scientist or expert on such things or anything else, for that matter; just an audiophile and lover of music seeking a better education or understanding of such things.

Seems there is at least a little controversy about what the best or better frequency might be for ultrasonic cleaning of records (e.g. 35 kHz; 40 kHz; 80 kHz; 120 kHz; etc.). This Degritter machine having piqued my interest, I decided to email them and respectfully request if they had any scientific data or any data at all they could share with me that supported their determination that 120 kHz seemed best for ultrasonically cleaning records. That was over a month ago and I haven't received any reply at all. Just about all of the major manufacturers I contacted responded within days or a week, at most. All of them were very careful to explicitly point out their scientific expertise was relegated to things other than cleaning vinyl records and all, with that stated proviso, indicated the relatively standard 40 kHz frequency would likely be safe and sufficient. I was hoping to catch at least one audiophile amongst them that, just maybe, had experimented with this and would be brave enough to venture a scientifically oriented opinion or his or her findings on this but, alas, it was evidently not meant to be. This is one reason I enjoy reading John Atkinson's and other audiophiles' testing and measurement reports in addition to reviewers' subjective takes.

Old Audiophile's picture
Submitted by Old Audiophile on April 14, 2021 - 7:18am

Still no word or response of any kind from Degritter. Not even a peep. At the very least, they could have addressed the question of a prospective customer interested in their machine and said something, anything, however vague or subjective, alluding to the research they claim to have done on cleaning frequencies. Remember that old TV commercial with the cute little old lady asking: "Where's the beef?" As I understand it, it's not the microbubbles or their size that do the actual cleaning but the force or energy released when the bubbles implode. Any real scientists out there?

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Submitted by Old Audiophile on July 10, 2021 - 8:32am

It irks me when sales & marketing babble is not backed-up with at least a modicum of evidence, especially when there are some audiophile publications out there giving a product like this a nod of approval.

Mr. Fremer, perhaps the good people at Degritter would respond to a query from you regarding how they came to the conclusion that 120 kHz/300 watts is the best or, at least, a better frequency for cleaning vinyl records. The apparent convenience of a record cleaning machine like this is, I'm sure, very appealing to many vinyl lovers. As such, I'd seriously be inclined to part with $3,000 of hard earned green if only I could get just a little in the way of proof as to how these folks determined that 120 kHz/300 watts is the way to go. It doesn't have to be proprietary corporate secrets; just some evidence or rationale! In the absence of such, perhaps this calls for a shoot-out review amongst several top machines or systems (e.g. inexpensive; mid-priced; high-priced). A comparative critical listening analysis like this conducted by professional, respected audiophiles would, I'm certain, be of great interest to many vinyl lovers!

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