Integrated Amp Reviews

... some integrated circuits, those "cheap chips" that tube amp aficionados find so abhorrent.
http://www.rogueaudio.com/Images/CM3insidelarge.jpg

Cary amp for comparison:
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/5141007.jpg

I used to own a 2010 SLI-80 and I just listened to a Rogue C3 last evening. I felt the sonics of my old SLI-80 (let alone the updated SLI-80HS) were much superior. Dynamic range was better against a blacker background and a much more natural organic sound. I think i generally prefer a KT88 over a KT120 to be fair and in fact KT77 may be my favorite. Point to point and better caps do matter.

The other thing to point out is noise from the CR - even the CRIII. In my experience Rogue Audio offers cheaply built products with bad grounding schemes. What do you expect for a tube integrated that is so cheap yet puts out 100 watts? Prima Luna Dialogue HP is a better comparison with the Cary and they cost the same and perform very similar - go figure! You guys who just see a tube integrated vs another and a cost differential assume the higher cost one must be a rip off. Just wait until you hear all the hum, buzz, and hiss pouring out of the amp and speakers. I'm not sure what the SLI-80HS is like but my SLI-80 was dead quiet! With the HS SS rectification I'd expect it to be even quieter than the old model.

Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated amp ($2,995) 100 WPC ultra-linear, is probably a better value for the money than this Cary integrated amp ........ The Rogue integrated probably measures better as well :-) ..........

It's not digital! Can't possibly be selling well, nor be convenient, what with replacing tubes and all.

Cheers,
Terry

It may work ok as a headphone amp ........ The headphone output impedance could work alright even with low impedance headphones with 20-30 Ohm impedance ........ Of course, it will work well with high impedance headphones :-) .........

JRT wrote: "A separate processing loop in a system with load invariant clean gain stages is a better solution than using pizza sauce on your pancakes."

JRT, you are thinking like an engineer. And that's great. If the approach you just wrote about described why you would never use the Cary amp, and instead employ flexible alteration that can be taken out of the loop, then it makes perfect sense to me.

Other people seem to get along well with other approaches, due to what they like along with other considerations in how they apportion their attention and time.

So for instance, I use tube amps (mostly my old Conrad Johnson amps). I've used them for 25 years because I like the subtle difference they bring to the table, which for me pay large *subjective* dividends (the type of characteristics associated with classic tube sound - a slight enriching of the sound, a bit fuller and rounder, sibilance and other artifacts seem to be less aggressive, voices seem more overall natural to me, etc).

The CJ amps are not neutral. And from what I've read whatever the distortions it may impart, it seems dubious that all of them could be replicated only by say, an eq (for sake of argument; I know other processing now exists of course). But for sake of argument, even IF I could replicated the sound using a solid state amp and an eq, I don't care to. Why? First of all, I feel no need. The slight modulating of the sound imparted by my tube amp does everything I need in nudging it towards sound I enjoy. I like pretty much everything I hear through my system, and never feel the need to twiddle anything in or out. In fact, I had a great digital eq in my system (Z-systems RDP-1) for something like 20 years and I just never felt compelled to use it (finally sold it).

So for me, the tube amp imparts a sort of "set and forget" quality to the sound, leaving me with no desire to fiddle with added eqs or processors in the loop, to alter when playing different program material.

Plus, there's the "cool gear" aspect - I like tube amps. There's a romance to them as gear, the cool look, the glowing tubes, the historical aspect, that I personally don't get in owning an SS amp (and I've owned SS amps, Bryston, Harmon Kardon and others).

Now has my CJ amp added "pizza sauce" to everything? No. Not in my estimation. There are some subtle qualities I spoke of, but they are utterly dwarfed by the scale of sonic characteristics that come along with any new recording played on the system. I hear all the sonic details, all the production choices and effects, everything, that I hear when an SS amp is powering the system. Something in a dry acoustic sounds that way, a thin recording sounds thin, powerful recordings powerful...every bit of gross sonic characteristic that really makes recordings sound different is there. So it's not remotely like making everything taste the same.

It still seems to me an open question as to whether the added processing you speak of would exactly duplicate whatever the Cary may be doing in terms of distortions. But even if so, there are the above considerations for other people.

There is a similar question about loudspeakers. Given that it is easier than ever before to find neutral, balanced, well-measuring loudspeakers, why would anyone choose otherwise? If you like some coloration to your sound, well buy a neutral speaker, add an eq or processor, and then you can add or subtract as you like. Again, makes perfect sense for someone of a certain mind-set and inclinations.

But what if one discovers that a loudspeaker designer has produced a speaker with some level of deviation from neutral or coloration...but it sounds terrific to you! You play all your beloved music and you love everything you hear. Well, then that audiophile has found essentially a "set and forget" sound that he likes and there is no need to buy another speaker and fiddle with additional processing. And for many of the speakers that are colored that people have really liked, it would take some real knowledge of how to use eq or digital processing to exactly mimic the sonic/distortion profile of those colored speakers....if it's even possible! (And given the variety of ways speaker designs can sound different that seems dubious). So given certain priorities, buying the speaker that was designed in a way that already pleases your ear is the simpler move. It's like gardening; I could probably do a decent job on my garden myself, if I cared to learn about it and put in the effort. But that's not where I care to apportion my time, so I hire a gardener once a year to come by and do it. Other people really get in to gardening, so good on them!

So my point is that a totally sensible case can be made, as you have made it, for avoiding introducing colorations as a "fixed" part of the chain. But introducing some coloration in a fixed way can also satisfy other people's interests, in a rationally defensible way as well. The Cary amp may alter the sound of someone's system in just the way he enjoys, leaving that audiophile with no need or desire to fiddle with an added processor that may or may not even replicate what the Cary amp is doing.

Cheers!