Everything is just a link away these days, so it's really no big deal. People can now ask the same questions, have the same topics or go further if they wish by joining TuneLand without the inconvenience of being trolled or being involved in revolving nowhere challenges lol.

I think it will be a lot easier for the serious listener to read this http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t343-stereophile-the-other-side-of-the-hobby gain an understanding what has happened to the Stereophile forum, and have the choice to come to a more professional site covering the topics in more detail with practical application, which as you will read your Stereophile members both here and on TuneLand expressing themselves concerning this forum.

Maybe someday you will stop trolling the members here and take the hobby more serious than you saying your a troll deal with it, haven't had an in-room stereo system in 9 years, and you use mockery to deal with people you disagree with. Or May saying everyone takes you and her out of context when all people do is quote what you guys say, or at least the way your threads come across, then she says she's here to challenge people. Not much of a challenge if your not able to articulate simple points in this hobby.

Basically the members here are fed up with Stereophile not being able to keep their own house in order. On here every other thread is about disappointment or snake oil or threads that are trolled to death. Worse is you and May's practice of turning threads into trolling and spins by sucking people into internet trolling which none of us want, except maybe a few unhappy, unsuccessful listeners.

Bottom line is Stereophile has lowered it's bar by accepting members with sub-par intentions and poor ethics. As I told JA, why do people want to come to a place expecting a certain level of community and quality only to find BS? Stereophile right at this moment is more known for their lack of quality threads, where the members are saying that this forum has been wasting their time. Audiophiles are being cheated by the ethics and lack of expertize here and geoff and May are trying to keep the experts out with every tap of their keyboards. They even chase off those who are, at first, compassionate to them only to be trolled away.

But this is no news to any who visit, and I offer to the members another choice. TuneLand offers respect combined with knowledge and experience, walk that matches the talk, something that hasn't been here for a long time.

And now if you will excuse me, I need to go to the airport to pickup some listeners coming here to enjoy the hobby and attend the CES, and maybe even chuckle a little about May Belt and geoff kait having turned what was once the formost of this hobby to it's ethics brink.

I once knew a Stereophile, where has it gone?

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

David said "my comment about not believing in snake-oil wasn't a troll. And there's nothing incorrect or invalid about a thread devoted to the value ,or lack thereof, of many audiophile assertions and ideas."

Hi David

I'm sure comments made on these recent threads aren't directed at you. You just happen to be getting caught in the middle of many years of trolling attempts by geoff. If you read through threads over the last 8 years (way before you or I were ever here) from the beginning you will see the spins as they are made by geoff & May. This might help you to see the trolling profile of Geoff and the snake oil concerns the industry have for both geoff & May. When you see any of these trolls, I recommend just stepping over them as you would a mudd puddle. If they get to the place where there is no peace, you are more than welcome to do what many members here are doing, join TuneLand.

Posters like ChrisS, Toledo, Ron, Costin and many others have experienced the middle of the geoff/may trolling games and have called the both of them out

Now that TuneLand has become home for many disenchanted members here, geoff is doing everything he can to turn up his MO. Here's the thing members here including myself say to those who get caught in the middle of any trolling here. Ask the person your concerned about to give you their current stereo system list. This pretty much makes it clear who are trolls and who are being trolled. The ones doing the trolling will either not tell you their system or have portable (non-audiophile) players or some such junk. Those who are not the trolls have pretty involved listening setups. I for example have three systems fired up with others listening to them while I write this. That makes me a little more legit than someone refusing to mention their system or someone who hasn't had one in over nine years. Think about that David, you are talking to geoff, who not only is a well known audio troll with many calling him out on fraud and all sorts of things, plus my friend, he doesn't even share your hobby, geoff kaits has no in room stereo system at all and hasn't had for many years. David your being played for a fool and everyone here is watching. Now that may be fine and good if you want, free country, but do you see a lot of other guys here posting, or posting with any depth?

Trolling is pretty much simple math. Look at the people involved and see how much they are into the talking as opposed to those of us actually doing the hobby. Simple stuff really, and is the reason why members are leaving here by the scores.

I wish these pages were full and having a blast, but the opposite is happening where May and geoff are concerned. That will either change when JA tightens his belt, or ghost town. I didn't make the rules just offering a fun alternitive that folks are enjoying.

michael green
MGA/TuneLand, where listeners are listening tonight
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

So geoff kait comes here and says he's a troll "deal with it". Catch22 comes up here tonight and says "deal with it". They say "deal with it" as if it's the norm for people to come up to forums and act like jerks. And, get this now, we (the long standing fun loving music lover) should put up with it! We who are serious about this hobby should put up with idiots & jerks, just because they have nothing better to do?

Really geoff & catch22? Are you guys really that immature, that you can't see this once gentlemens hobby has been interupted by the poor attitudes of a few? Ron asks us to buck up and hang in there, but I have news, we deserve better. We deserve better and that should be the end of the story, and those here who wish otherwise should be asked to politely leave.

Ok, we get it, JA is not going to do this. In that case we offer our fellow members a more advanced, civil place to enjoy the hobby of high end audio listening and fellowship, to which they are becoming part of (what high end audio was) the upper-classmen of the hobby.

As members continue to leave here for the adventures of TuneLand I guess all we can say is.....deal with it :)

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

I'm on the same page pentode along with many members and music lovers from many places. The folks who come to troll and spread bad Vibes among us won't win. They may destroy this particular forum, but they can not put a dent in the spirit of the hobby of loving music and the community in which it lives & thrives.

I've gotten to know many of you behind the scenes, on TuneLand, by phone, at the shows, at my places and by email, and it has been and continues to be a major source of joy for me. The joy hasn't been coming from here so much, with all the trolling and such, but from you and the family of listeners who keep that desire of hearing a little more, alive. I truly believe we are the ones putting the dent in the walls of the stuck, and our united voices are speaking loudly. It's not the voice of everyone agreeing, it's the voice of "lets be gentlemen" about it and at the same time telling the trolls to move on or we will, letting these pages rot in internet trolling hell. JA IMO, has no idea what is happening to his magazine as a result of letting these trolls here. It's like I said to him in an email. This is not like other forums that can afford to let sides go at it. Because he is both magazine & forum, this place will drag JA's & Stereophile (the magazine) into the mudd so deep, the reputation of both will suffer greatly. Stereophile is taking a big hit by not making order rule here. I've seen since I've been here, cool listeners join, become sorely disappointed a say goodbye. This is exactly what will turn off members in the future and I believe threaten the existance of this magazine.

It's like I told Catch22 a year ago, this isn't some political forum designed to hear sides of anger. Music lovers are only going to put up with bad Karma & Vibes so long, before they leave this part of the hobby. Honestly pentode, I think what we are seeing played out here on these pages is in part what caused the collapse of the high end audio marketplace. High end audio turned into adds, anger and ego. When these pages should be full of system threads having fun and fellowship, they have turned into listeners asking why they can't come here and share their music and thoughts, elevating each other. Catch22 & geoff say "deal with it" not knowing that it makes the true audiophile want to smack them right in the puss. People (mature people) don't get into the hobby to argue, but to share the good Vibes. Stereophile is making a big mistake, and actually forcing thousands to stay away.

anyway, back to the hobby

We are having a blast at the CES. Started our live streaming early this morning, you can catch us at Drewster88.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t342-ces-2016-las-vegas

We're having a nice flow at TuneLand Vegas as well, thanks for visiting!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Actually I'm very thankful to ChrisS for standing up for this, the greatest of hobbies!

ChrisS draws the line between geoff, May and the rest of the Stereophile audio trolls and the Audiophile Enthusiast.

Hope everyone has a chance to look at our CES 2016 show pictures this year and years past. And as the Stereophile Members have been joining TuneLand I hope all here know how much we love having you and want to thank Stereophile for all the wonderful memories, and the memories we are making each day we greet our hobby with a smile.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t342-ces-2016-las-vegas

michael green, live from CES 2016
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

As with any type of forum that has to do with participation of "doing the hobby", you will find that when the forum goes to speculation only, the threads and forums will go down hill fast. This goes for any forum anywhere. The Stereophile forum has taken a huge hit, because one there is no accountability, two there are no posters dedicated to long term listening threads and three the important threads turn into such bad trolling that the readers can't tell when they are being trolled or involved in truthful, serious discussions.

Until truth and ethics are restored, this forum for the most part is over and will never rise to the level of most seasoned balanced listeners. A balanced listener doesn't have any desires of going backward. Frankly we have moved on to the listening. The only reason I am here is to recruit those who do indeed want to step up their game. But this will not happen on Stereophile as long as the truly higher end "listeners" are allowed to come here without the trolling.

here's what your members say, about your forum

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t343-stereophile-the-other-side-of-the-h...

I have got at least 50 emails sitting here that I have not posted to add to the ones that others have sent or posted. If I opened up a call for truth exposed, you my friend would be shocked at the discuss within the hobby concerning this forum. For those listeners and many others it's simply not worth their time anymore, and honestly I don't blame them. When grown adults have no desire to separate the real from the trolls, or are not able to even tell the difference, it's pretty much a dead zone for anyone wishing to be serious.

In all truth, the smartest of all the remaining posters here is ChrisS. ChrisS spends his time solely calling out internet trolls.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi Allen

Last year was tuning a lot of receivers, some vintage toys, CDPs and rooms of course, and getting our new lines in order. Toward the end of the year we were asked to tune DAC's, smaller amps and I wanted to check out the Audolici that Harold http://soundconsultant.com/ kept talking about. As you know I can be pretty darn tough on high end components, for several reasons one of the biggest, not being the design as much as, the limited amount of music people can play because so many products are so discrete (one signature sound) components. Harold was brave to trust this line with me for review, and I told him I wasn't going to hold back. My nerves were a little shaky to be honest because I was almost sure I was going to be reporting a so so first impression, which is a lot of times the cast, cause the first things I look for is expanded staging and harmonic correctness. Took me all of about one hour before I fell in love. I'm not sure I have ever heard a tube amp get up to speed and stage that fast. The A-25M was musical right out of the gate (brand new mind you). I had to take back to my dealer friend 7 amps that were the other contenders for my personal use after the Audolici embarrassed them all within a couple of days. I'm not sure how this line has been over-looked. I think maybe (not sure) that the Audolici falls right in that price range of, if your going to spend $5000.00-$10000.00 you might as well shoot for the moon. Listeners that are wanting that $25,000.00 and up sound should score the A-25M. The other thing I recently learned was Audolici has not spent a lot of time and money on advertising. Their time and money is in design, which explains the lower cost. Makes sense to me, cause it's every bit and then some of units costing double or triple. I now have the entire line to listen to for the next 2 months so I will be bringing even more amps over for showdowns. I'll be doing a lot of reporting on TuneLand obviously.

There's a ton of other things up my sleeve for this year, TT's as I said DACs and today I was at the Apple store making plans to put together a front end that will be a watch. Is that nuts LOL, we are going to be sitting in our chairs controlling our systems with a watch.

So I guess to wrap this post up for now, this year for me is about having the past present and future systems. I've got as many boxes of un or barely opened toys as any reviewers stock room waiting to be dived into.

In closing I want to give the best of wishes to David's family. Sunday we/I lost the most creative friend I have ever been blessed to work with. David was many things to many people and many never really understood the ground and bread he broke. David was always, all about giving the message of equality like no one I have ever experienced. He took on roles, no one would touch, just so he could open peoples minds. I've never seen David greet a fan in the short time I was in his presence, I've only seen him embrace family.

much love from all the little spiders

natch
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hello Members

It has been exciting to watch listeners signing up on TuneLand. Since I put this thread up over 40 of the stereophile members have joined and growing daily.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Read this quote from geoff kait (a stereophile audio troll)

"The subwoofer. To isolate or not to isolate, that is the Q

Suppose you have a big honking subwoofer in your room or even better two big honking subwoofers. How can you alleviate mechanical feedback produced by the subwoofer(s)? Is it important to isolate them and how would you do it? Let's suppose for argument's sake the sub weighs 100 lb.

Share, share....

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica"

Does anyone wonder why members are not taking this forum serious anymore?

Above we see well known internet troll geoff kait start a thread on subwoofers. He ask the question to isolate or not, but fails to qualify himself as someone who not only doesn't have a subwoofer but has not even had an in-room stereo system for at least 9 years. We have never seen geoff say that he has ever owned a subwoofer. So the reader should be asking, why does stereophile talk about subjects they have never even participated in?

Look at how many stereophile forum threads get started here by audio trolls who don't even have stereo systems talking as if they are seasoned audiophiles? I hope you readers realize that the two main trolling contributors here, one doesn't have a stereo and the other refuses to show theirs or say what they have. They both jump into almost every thread saying "you must do certain tweaks" however don't even show that they even have a stereo.

Why are people coming to TuneLand? Maybe because they and we are actually doing the hobby we talk about.

Stereophile audio Trolls like geoff & May say "Share, share....", but the very meaning of the word share suggest you have something to share with. How does someone talk about isolating subwoofers asking you to "Suppose"? I and hundreds of thousands of audiophiles actually have subwoofers geoff & May. We're not living our hobby "hypothetically". Further more where do you come up with "big honking subwoofer"? I personally don't know any subwoofer designer out to make "big honking subwoofers".

Again geoff your making this forum look like JackA**es. I'm sure there are many newbees who don't understand how subwoofers are meant to work, or even seasoned guys who have never been able to mate the woofers to the room, but I can only assume they would like to be able to go somewhere that raises the bar a little higher than the knowledge of a "80's" portable cassette player and earbuds when talking about how to tune a subwoofer to a room.

fellow Stereophile members geoff says

"Let's suppose for argument's sake the sub weighs 100 lb"

Don't you (the members & readers of the stereophile forum) deserve a little more than hypotheticals & arguements?

Join Tuneland

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Not sure why a music lover would have the need for a thin or thick skin. As my fellow audiophiles can see, we're having a great time on TuneLand http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t343-stereophile-the-other-side-of-the-hobby

We're excited that so many members of the Stereophile forum have decided to make TuneLand their serious listening home. Why geoff or anyone here would see TuneLand having a good time as a personal attack is strange. To quote Catch22 "deal with it" geoff. The more you attempt to troll the more listeners leave and hunt for friendly audio forums to be a part of. Fact is, listeners are and have moved on to "Greener Pastures". This is a good thing and might just encourage Stereophile to raise the listening bar a little.

Doesn't take much of a brain geoff, to see that listeners have a problem talking to you about subwoofers seeing you have never owned one. This is probably why no one is wasting their time on your threads, and why would they? On every thread we have read by you, your credibility comes into question after a few short post by you. If readers take a step back and go through yours & Mays threads it doesn't take long for the comedy to break skin.

geoff says

"As for my experience in audio" refering to himself

We audiophiles have yet to see geoff's experience past two older stereos that geoff himself said were not that thrilling (geoff said "never looking back"), a headphone setup that geoff said a portable cassette player and earbuds out performed, and of course geoff's sony walkman portables. That's not exactly a stellar resume and as we can see not a whole lot of listeners wish to talk shop with geoff. Most question why I waste my time. My answer remains the same as the first time asked. I'm here to promote the industry and hobby of listening to music at the more advanced levels.

Is my being here successful? Come to TuneLand and read for yourselves. More Stereophile members have posted their systems on TuneLand in the last month than on the stereophile forum over the whole of last year. The last system post here was a month ago vs TuneLand which happened minutes ago. On the Stereophile forum members are begging each other to reference their music vs TuneLand where we can't wait to get on-going referencing reports.

I guess geoff and May see us listening to music as personal attacks on them vs us having an on going listening party including and inviting thousands to join in the fun. Kinda looks like TuneLand is about fun http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t342-ces-2016-las-vegas wouldn't you the members agree? LOL

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

MGA/RoomTune & TuneLand has always been the "greener pastures" for the serious audiophile, including being a hub for reviewers, designers and all who enjoy the exotic side of the hobby. This last CES (2016) we had quite the party and talked about the important changes that have been taking place in our industry. Watching the High End Audiophile Designers step up to the plate is exciting!

Take a look readers http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t342-ces-2016-las-vegas . TuneLand Vegas pickup a few of these advanced designs and have more on our lists to get.

The affordable audiophile market is back and system balance is as well on the comeback. For years the audiophile was caught up in the marketing spin without the results to back it up. Many of our designers saw this and realized the change was needed to implement innovation, and implementing they are. The Stereophile forum may be a little slow on the up-take, but the Stereophile Magazine (along with the others) has products and innovations on their plates to introduce. We were nothing but smiles seeing the audiophile choices of the now and the future. So many great new products to look at, and perhaps the connection between old and new is finally available. I've not been this excited about the audiophile landscape in a long time. More than in the last 20 years, reviewers have something really fresh and new to talk about.

My hope is that this forum will be able to move past letting trolls here and on to our new world, at all levels. If not you listeners can come on over to TuneLand and share in the fun. Once the sales rush for me settles a little I'll try to report more on what we found this year that has got us so pumped. In the meantime enjoy all the show reports and articles on the new high end audio.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

I say we take this thread into the tens of thousands of views and allow the hobbyists, designers, reviewers and rest of the audio industry see the two sides of the Stereophile forum. One side the listeners who have made this hobby great and wish to share in the joy and community, the other side grumpy old men & women unsuccessful in their listening trying to make members as uncomfortable as they are.

Here's the proof in the pudding http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t343-stereophile-the-other-side-of-the-hobby

I don't see my fellow listeners putting down Stereophile and neither do I. What we, who love this hobby, are doing is letting the community know we are not a part of the low standards being trolled here. Spins and internet trolling are not welcome among the listening faithful. Take a look readers and see for yourselves http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Nope, what I say is those tired of the nowhere spins here have other options.

Come enjoy the active hobby of listening :)

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Tonight we went to the docks of FedEx to pickup MGA Viola FS Chameleon Speaker cabinets. They are Gorgeous! Now the third stage curing can begin. Another cool thing about TuneLand is, readers get to follow along the tuning proccess, what I do and what the different production steps do. It's fun having a forum open to the public and also having a wide enough range of designs to cover the entire audio chain. We have members who use no MGA products, all the way to full blown tunable systems using nothing but MGA.

It's been great having so many of you visit and join TuneLand. Keep it up Stereophile and see how when the focus is on music it does two things. One it shows how diverse our industry and hobby is, and second TuneLand allows you to see that your dream sound is attainable.

Some of you have been in this hobby for 30, 40 years still in search of that perfect sound. TuneLand is a forum totally dedicated to that "perfect" sound, and explains how to get there. TuneLand covers the sound itself and breaks down the hobby into practical disciplines and methods of listening that you can apply to your system, space and the way you "do" the hobby. We have on-going active listening sessions where you can jump on-board to see where you are with your system, along with detailed discussions about your particular listening taste and how to get there.

For us "practical: of or concerned with the actual doing or use of something rather than with theory and ideas" and "application: the action of putting something into operation" are the cornerstones of the art of listening. We (TuneLand) go further in the art of listening than any other audio forum, ever. We teach methods of listening and system designing that goes that extra mile. Whether you stop at plug & play or go full variable, you will gain an understanding of every angle of this hobby, so you can master your system, space and hobby.

there is no such thing as music without motion

come on over where your friends are, troll free and music abundant

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

That's my impressions as well. I don't see the benefit in allowing internet trolling on audiophile forums.

Interesting verse as this is how May Belt (geoff's counterpart) describes geoff "geoff uses mockery" as if mockery is some type of positive approach.

For those who may not have NIV, proverbs 22,10 "Drive out the mocker, and out goes strife; quarrels and insults are ended."

It's all pretty basic stuff. There are tons of listeners who would make the Stereophile forum their home once again if there was some order and positive energy restored. Don't get me wrong, I love that members from here have been joining TuneLand. Specialty forums and the mainstream magazine forums both benefit when exchanges are free flowing. Stereophile however is way below it's potential as a forum and the members here for the most part point to internet trolling being allowed as the culprit.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

I haven't seen Fabio in a long time, a very nice guy from my brief meetings with him. Also an audiophile. Didn't Stereophile do an article with him? We happen to be born the same year. My wife use to say "that was a fine year for men".

Come see what your fellow audiophiles have to say about the Stereophile forum.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t343-stereophile-the-other-side-of-the-hobby

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Come see why people are joining TuneLand.

Here is a thread I started on the topic of subwoofers on TuneLand.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t351-the-world-of-sub-woofers

I'm just getting started so come back every now and then to read more.

And here is the same subject presented here http://www.stereophile.com/content/subwoofer-isolate-or-not-isolate-q

Please note the OP on the topic on Stereophile doesn't own a subwoofer and has not had a stereo system in his room (according to him) in over 8 years. When giving a list of his components never is there a mention of ever owning a subwoofer.

Is TuneLand the forum option you have been looking for? Visit and see why your fellow members say Yes!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

One thing that I hope readers are able to take away from my posting here is that we are an active research center as much as a cool place to listen. I think readers would be surprised to see what we do at our locations. For example, while a thread is going on here and TuneLand about rooms and subwoofers, we are actually building a subwoofer room to do specific listening tests in. I have subs here now and more are on the way along with a few sub amps which we have and are listening to and tuning of course.

When I read comments here about killing vibrations and getting rid of the room effect I wonder how much these guys have actually done when it comes to these topics. You can see me rolling my eyes I'm sure because while some here make statements it's pretty clear they haven't actually done the work on the variables.

Talking audio without rounded experience is something that doesn't need to happen. I can't do things that way. Drives me crazy when people are guessing instead of doing. Today as people were here doing a walk through I talked with the guys as I was sanding & voicing several pieces of wood. One guy says "so what would it sound like if you took that one piece of wood and plugged it into your system"? I told him what I thought it would change being used in several placements to all the above including the acoustical pressure in the room. Needless to say I'm bragging now to you because of the listeners response after applying the wood. BTW I let him apply it while I sat outside continuing my voicing of other pieces. He was amazed that he changed the total character of the rooms acoustics by exchanging one piece of wood under a sub plate amp. He said "not only did the tone of the room change but so did the soundstage and tonal balance of the highs". All this from a block under the corner of a sub plate amp. But this is what we do every day and teach so listeners can vioce their music in ways they never thought possible, and do it predictively. Every day it's like seeing guys become born into a new hobby.

It truly is my pleasure!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/