You were a tad late to the party. The lynching party for the ubiquitous big honking toroidal transformer that is. Last year there was a long thread right here on these very fora on exactly how to deal with such transformers. In fact, now that I think about it, the two dudes who carried out the lynching, I mean treatment, were from Pittsburgh! What are the chances! The transformer, one of the most toxic and damnable things ever foisted upon naive gullible audiophiles.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
We Do Artificial Atoms Right

Hi Ron, BTW thanks for the mention!

I know what you mean about taking things apart, and will admit it use to be somewhat painfull for me because some of this equipment is so darn pretty. When we look at these components we see these beautifully made housings, the problem is, when we look inside and see the actual parts making the sound from the electronic side of things we have to ask the question, what's the difference between the sound of these great components in their housing as compare to without their housing, and how far is going too far for our own personal sound vs looks.

For myself everytime I take a step, I go through that question looks vs sound. And the way I justify it, is to stop thinking of my systems as what they look like in off mode compared to how the soundstage looks when turned on. If someone has the best of both worlds, or at least close enough that's pretty cool, but how many times do I see listeners start down the tuning path only to find themselves in a completely different hobby than they started with. Somewhere along the journey, the soundstage itself becomes the looks and the exterior housings somehow become a distraction in the mind.

And so

Now when I get a component it's more of a part of the whole and takes on a different beauty for me. In the end I start making the room into my own private mini concert hall and it takes on a mood that makes me feel less like I'm sitting in a living room and more like I'm sitting in the soundstage itself.

A line that all of us have to draw for ourselves. When I sit there listening, what do I see? Do I see equipment or has a soundstage takin over my space and my mind. It's a bridge all of us cross, and is also a bridge that defines our hobby and world. Being a long time listener of huge soundstages as well as owning tons and tons of the equipment the visual mind of the soundstage for me far outweighs the visual of any equipment playing, even to the point of the equipment not even being there, or being a hindrance (obstruction) to my virtual reality.

On the listening side of things, by far, my best sounding systems were not in the same room as me, or were setup with a very low profile no higher than 12 or so inches off the ground.

such an interesting and fun hobby

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Ron,

I noticed that I have an almost Identical speaker placement setup to yours (unavoidable due to my room layout). I also use Epos Epic 2 speakers, with the right channel near a corner.

I'm glad you're impressed with the soundstage you've achieved. I haven't been too impressed with the sound stage of my setup with most recordings. However, I'm not exactly sure what a good "3D sound stage" should sound like. The whole idea has always struck me as quite subjective. Of course, one could argue that maybe my DAC is no good, or my receiver isn't up to snuff. If only us audiophiles could instantly teleport to a fellow enthusiast's listening room to evaluate strengths and weaknesses. We might find that you use a superior DAC or that I use an inferior amp stage. With so many highly regarded products on the market, I'm always left wondering if I'm missing out on a hidden gem, or if I should've sprung a couple more bones for a more expensive component.

My system uses Epos Epic 2 speakers, a Yamaha RS500 receiver/ integrated, a Topping D20 DAC, and a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC with a Clearaudio Concept V2 cartridge. My Phono stage is a DB Systems DB-8. Interconnects are Audioquest and speaker wire is just standard 12 gauge Monoprice copper. I use a 10" Paradigm subwoofer situated behind my seating position for the extra low Hz.

I must say that I noticed a substantial improvement when I switched from the 2M Red to the ClearAudio cartridge.

On the topic of Transformers, I recently stumbled upon an interesting article. I'm not sure if it's claims are valid, it's intriguing, given that "high-end" manufacturers seem to favor the toroidal design.

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb071998.htm

Happy Listening.

-Roy

If you want to try and keep bass while expanding the stage without all the transient smearing from having a speaker in the corner, move the speakers out into the room and move your chair to the back wall. The back wall is usually bass heavy and might sound better than corner loading for bass. Hey, it's free and easy to try it.

Roy wrote,

"I'm glad you're impressed with the soundstage you've achieved. I haven't been too impressed with the sound stage of my setup with most recordings. However, I'm not exactly sure what a good "3D sound stage" should sound like. The whole idea has always struck me as quite subjective."

Yes, it's subjective. Very subjective. The whole soundstage thing... like many things in audio ...is subject to the laws of purple prose - when someone has a bigger vocabulary than the next guy and is not afraid to use it he can usually make it sound as if HIS soundstage MUST be better. It all hinges on the use of words and phrases like three-dimensional, holographic, image density, expanding sphere of 3D space, transparent bubble of exactitude, the players are in the room, our jaws hit the floor and the soundstage was as big as Kansas. In reality when I go to hear what all the fuss is about soundstage wise somewhere I frequently find a soundstage suffering from uh, shrinkage.

Cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Harmonica

This link will drop you down onto page 2 of 3 of the efforts of the two dudes from Pittsburgh to absorb the magnetic field generated by the transformer and mechanically isolate the circuit boards from vibration, much of which comes from the transformer.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/tuning?page=1

Ron wrote,

"Geoff: To remove any subjectivity, I have described my soundstage in detail in my reply to helomech."

Now that I think about it I'm almost certain that my point is more or less that all attempts to describe soundstage wind up being subjective in nature due to the vagaries of language and other factors. The corollary is that is you cannot know the sound of a system someone describes even though it's described in the most honest, careful and complete way UNLESS you are there to hear it in person. Notice how I've skirted around the issue concerning some peoples' motivation for exaggerating or even misrepresenting the subjective description of soundstage or any other audio attribute you might wish to mention. That's why I used the phrase "purple prose" the other day on this thread. Embellishment might sneak in if one wishes to sell a product or sell an idea or even one's cleverness. I've even seen cases when embellishment was employed to try to win an argument. Perish the thought! Lol

Cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

>>> “And so based on that statement, I would have to concede you are correct. I am certain if someone else came and listened to my system, they would no doubt render a differing opinion.” <<<

Hello Ron.

Regarding Soundstage. It is not what other people might hear and how THEY might describe YOUR sound – it is to do with the differences YOU actually hear when you have made changes (carrying out some so called tweaks).

If you make a change and then describe the result as ‘better height, better depth, better width, better separation of musical instruments etc, etc’, then those are the improvements you have heard – i.e. the differences between now and before. So YOU can describe it as ‘better soundstaging’. But that does not mean that someone else, strange to your room and your sound, would automatically describe it as ‘having an excellent soundstage’.

So, when other people describe hearing a ‘better soundstage’ with their sound, then they are describing exactly what they hear !! I have found that people are quite good at being able to judge when changes HAVE taken place with their sound !!

Regards,
May Belt,
PWB Electronics.