You are here

Log in or register to post comments
venessian
venessian's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
Joined: Nov 20 2011 - 9:15pm
2 questions regarding Bowers and Wilkins B&W CM2 and CMC add-ons

I have a pair of Bowers and Wilkins CM2 and a CMC center. The receiver is a Marantz 5005, with an older (perfectly fine) Sony CD player. These have been used to date only for music listening.

I would now like to connect these to my television as well (Samsung Smart TV), even though the primary use would still be for music.

1) I can buy a matching pair of B&W CMD-1SE speakers, which would give me 5.1 capability.
Would the CDM-1SE be a good match, or might they be redundant to the CM2s, since they are of similar size/specs?

2) Are there any general recommendations more experienced members can provide regarding a good, but not expensive, subwoofer to pair with these speakers, etc?

Thanks much.

bierfeldt
bierfeldt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Oct 26 2007 - 2:30pm
For surrounds

Those will work if you are getting them for a sharp price. Optimally, you want a dipole speaker for your surround, but that can be fixed with proper placement. A good alternative would be the B&W M-1. They are a nice home theatre speaker and are well suited for use as a surround. They also are wall mountable right out of the box and are $500 per pair new.

For a subwoofer, what does "not expensive" mean? Additionally, how big is your room?

Here are a few thoughts -

For a good, very musical sub that will still thunder in home theatre I would recommend you look at the Sunfire HRS 10 or 12. 10 if you have a smaller room, 12 if you have a larger room. They are $950 or $1050 respectively. They are 1000w and will deliver big in home theatre while still providing the refinement one would seek in a very Musical sub. They also will hit 22hz or 18hz which makes them ideal for home theatre.

Another less expensive option is the NHT B-12d or the B-10d. The 12d is $799, 500w and will hit 27hz while the 10d is $599, will hit 300w and will hit 28hz. They are wonderful products, very musical. The 12d is fine for a larger room but the 10d should only be used in a smaller room or you need two.

If these are above your budget, I would look at a ported sub which will deliver bigger sound but will typically be less refined. I would look at the Infinity Reference Sub R-12 in a medium to largish room or the Primus PS312 for a large room. The Infinity's are about as good as you can get in a ported sub for the money at $399.

venessian
venessian's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
Joined: Nov 20 2011 - 9:15pm
Thank you for the detailed

Thank you for the detailed reply; I appreciate it.

I looked at the B&W M-1. I wonder if they will odd with the CM2/CMC, but that’s not the most important criterion. Are they also good for music or are they strictly for HT?

The room is 14’ x 12’ x 8’-6”.

The Sunfire subs look great but are out of my budget at the prices you quoted. However, I see some HRS-10 (new) on eBay for $599, and perhaps could swing that, if it would be OK for the room size. HRS-12 are selling for $750…out of my range.

The Primus PS312 might be the way to go, unless the Sunfire 10 is a much better investment at $200 more. It might be.

bierfeldt
bierfeldt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Oct 26 2007 - 2:30pm
Thoughts

I had them as the primary speaker for about 2 years in a 2.1 system and replaced them with a $1500 pair of Revels. They now are the primary speakers in my family room and we use them constantly for music.

This is one of the few speakers that B&W makes where I would say it is a value for what you get. They really perform for $500. Good news is, if you get them from Best Buy, you can return them within 30 days if you don't like them.

14 x 12 is a nice medium sized room. Regarding the subs, they are two completely different designs and that outputs are radically different.

I can't tell you which is better or whether it is worth the extra cash for the Sunfire. It was for me, no question but not everyone feels the way I do.

When I first put together my home theatre, the manager of the store I was buying from said, "I am not sure if you want one of those Sunfire subs. They are too...audiophilish for most customers."

If you are looking for detail and refinement like being able to hear the plucking of a bass string or clear notes from a bass drum, you need a sealed sub like the Sunfire. The issue with sealed subs is that to produce the same volume and depth of frequency as a ported sub, they need dramatically more power. As a result they tend to be more expensive. This is why the Sunfire is 1000w and the primus is 400w. Because the HRS 10 is 1000w, it will still work well with home theatre, but it costs more.

If you want thunder and room shaking noise and are willing to sacrifice a bit of detail, a ported sub is appropriate. That is the trade off with ported subs. You get much bigger but less detailed sound for less money.

I was just looking on Amazon, and I saw there is a Mirage Omni S-10 for $429 and S-8 for $249 available plus shipping. These are discontinued so are at really sharp prices. I have the Omni S-8 which I paid $399 for paired up with my B&W M-1s and explicitly chose it over the Infinity, B&W and several others. The Primus was my runner up and since it is not discontinued, I recommended it to you before. The 10 is 800w and goes to 21hz while the 8 is 400w and goes to 27hz. It still will fall short of the Sunfire in detail, but the Mirage is a darn nice sub.

One thing I will warn you about...if you are looking at a Sunfire Sub on eBay, there is a good chance that it is not coming from an authorized dealer. If you buy from an unauthorized dealer, you have no warranty. Incidentally, I have 2 Sunfire Subs and have not had a moments trouble with either.

venessian
venessian's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
Joined: Nov 20 2011 - 9:15pm
Thank you again.

Thank you again.

That is good to know re: the M-1s. I just looked at Best Buy (they get great reviews from a number of customers). I never realized Best Buy carried so many speakers! I guess the M-1MB are simply the current model, just as good?

Regarding the subs, I am definitely in the first (music) camp and not really in the second (booming movies). So, a sealed sub seems to be the better option. I will definitely look at the Mirage, thanks. The Sunfires would really stretch my budget way out there.

Yes, I was looking at Sunfires on eBay. Your point regarding non-authorized dealers/warranty is one I take to heart, and is a deal-breaker. The only Sunfires from ADs that I see on eBay are SDS-10 series, but I think those might be ported? There is also a SB-1000, sealed, but $599. Too bad the HRS-10 is out of budget; it looks like it would be good. I will look into the Mirages you suggested. I would not be averse to buying a good used Sunfire if all looked clean, but those don’t seem readily available.

venessian
venessian's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
Joined: Nov 20 2011 - 9:15pm
Another question.

I understand the advantages of a sealed sub now, versus ported. Thank you.

I also understand a sealed sub would need higher wattage. However, what are the lowest watts one could use on a sealed sub in a room my size?

The reason I ask is that I can get a B&W ASW650 for $150, local pick-up very near my house. I see that the ASW650 is a sealed sub. The spec sheet states:
Description: Active closed-box subwoofer system
Amplifier power output: 200W continuous
Frequency range (-6dB): 20Hz and 180Hz
Frequency response (±3dB): 25Hz and 150Hz

Is this a good sub, or is it better to look for more power?

Thanks.

bierfeldt
bierfeldt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Oct 26 2007 - 2:30pm
3 thoughts

I will admit...I do not like that B&W sub and like many B&W products, opinions are polarizing. I demo'd it with the M-1s at Best Buy. It could have been how they had it set up, but I found it sounded muddier than several ported subs despite being sealed. Side by side, both my wife and I picked the Mirage Omni-8 over the B&W in a blind test even though it is ported.

Regarding wattage, I can't say what the exact minimum is with a sealed sub for your room. I don't have enough experience in different room sizes with different power levels. For music, 200w will likely be plenty. You will tax it for home theatre.

Not sure how high your budget can go, but if you contact a local Sunfire Dealer I am relatively certain they will haggle. You could consider offering them $625 or $650 for the sub to offer a modest premium for them being an authorized dealer. Most dealers will take $100 or $150 profit vs. the 50% gross margin they get on nothing if you buy it on eBay.

venessian
venessian's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
Joined: Nov 20 2011 - 9:15pm
Thanks once again.

I had a feeling that the B&W sub wouldn’t really hit the mark. You are correct: I have read many polarizing opinions.

That’s a good suggestion regarding Sunfire. I just emailed them asking for a list of local dealers, and then I will visit them.

What about SVS subs? I thought you had also recommended them, but I see not. I guess I ran across the brand on some subwoofer reviews, etc. They seem to have a good reputation for music, and their Merlin tool recommends the SB-2000 (12" 2000-series driver; 500W (1100W Peak); $699.00) for the CM2/CMC. They are also closing out their SB12-NSD (12" driver; 400W (800W Peak) for $449.00.

Do you have any experience/opinion on Sunfire vs. SVS sealed subs? I guess is that if I can buy a new Sunfire HRS-10 at $625/$650 locally, that might be the best cost/value investment. $450/$500 is just much more in line with my budget.

bierfeldt
bierfeldt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Oct 26 2007 - 2:30pm
I have heard good things about SVS

I don't have much direct experience with them. Whenever I think of them I always think of the flagship, $1600 unit - the SB13 which is the one I listened too. I don't think I have ever heard another product from them.

That being said, I really liked the SB13 and have never heard anything bad about SVS products. If it fits your budget, I would look at it seriously and if they have a product on closeout...that is fabulous.

  • X