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geoffkait
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The Last Tweak Syndrome - what is it and what does it mean to you?

The Last Tweak Syndrome is something you might not have heard of before, even though it is very interesting and very important. Have you ever tweaked your system, I dunno, with some new fangled thing that's got a lot of buzz or maybe just some older tweak you finally decided to try? Could be a mod you did to your power supply or a new set of solid core seven nines copper air dielectric interconnects. Anyway, have you ever said to yourself, wow, this is unbelievable!? You know, as if suddenly your system went from kind of mediocre to the real McCoy. You say to yourself, proudly, geez, I don't think it can get much better than this. Then, the next tweak you try, could be anything, let's say it was a Schumann Frequency Generator or Tube Traps or maybe some fancy cones under the CD player. Then, when you get very good results, you surely must be thinking, geez, now it's really not going to get much better than this. The more tweaks you do the stronger that psychological barrier becomes, and at each step you think, boy, it really can't get any better than this! This state of mind is something I like to call The Last Tweak Syndrome. This psychological state occurs in older audiophiles and audiophiles with more expensive systems, I suspect. What does this syndrome mean? It means that no matter how good you think your system sounds there's a long way to go before it achieves it's optimum state, and it's BEST POSSIBLE SOUND. How many audiophiles do you know who claim that audio systems cannot be more than say 5 or 10 percent from THE ABSOLUTE SOUND? Probably a lot, right? Well, what if I were to tell you that most audiophile systems are not anywhere near such a thing. In fact, they are very very far from it. Folks seem to be laboring under the false impression that these high end systems are in the region of limited return for the effort or cost so why even try? But, THE LAST TWEAK SYNDROME actually is proof that the Idea of limited return is not true. That it's all in your head, you've just been psyched out. So, get out there and push that envelope. Push it, push it real good!

No matter how much you have in the end you would have had even more if you had only had more to start with.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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tunable systems vs last tweak

Never had it! I see a lot of audiophiles and studio engineers who do get "last tweak", but I don't see many who are wise listeners falling into this camp, or if they do, once they get past it, don't return. There's a certain maturity level that comes with understanding music is a "variable". The last tweak guy doesn't see audio that way. They see good and bad, but not "how to get the most".

There's a whole chapter besides the "fixed" listening world, and day by day listeners find it.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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But, but, but...I'm your biggest success story, Mikey

Remember me? I'm the guy with the World's Lowest Mass System. My portable cassette player system comes in at 10 ounces, including earphones. Hell, the two AA batteries are probably 30%. My Portable CD system comes in at 14 ounces. Have you run out of Tuning tweaks? Or is that an oxymoron? Dammit, I just handed Costin a straight line. Oh, I get it now. You found audio nirvana. Well, goodie for you!

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Geoff Kait
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Let's look at the physics again

Here is. Short list of what's wrong with digital, what's wrong with the PHYSICS of digital. Some of these same problems apply to ANY audio system, digital or analog.

1. Vibration induced jitter. See below for what to do for transformer vibration and low frequency structural vibration.

2. Jitter induced by scattered background laser light. This is another case where the Reed Solomon Error Correction codes don't fix everything you throw at them. And how unreliable the servo system is for maintaining the laser beam on the spiral data track.

3. The whole issue with the Scattered Laser Light can be greatly ameliorated by coloring the CD, coloring the CD tray and using Dark Matter to absorb the invisible near infrared portion of the spectrum. The Reed Solomon Error Correction Codes and the laser servo mechanism will thank you. The photodetector is rather dumb and can't tell the difference between the real reflected laser signal and stray scattered laser light.

4. The magnetic field B generated by the large transformer in amplifiers and by the medium size transformer in preamps and other devices extends outward from the transformer according to the inverse square law and affects everything within its field. The magnetic field interferes with an distorts the audio signal in wires, capacitors, etc. Mu metal wrapped around the transformer in one or two layers goes a long way in defeating the long arm of the magnetic field. You know, as the two dudes from Pittsburgh demonstrated last year.

5. Since all wires and cables also generate a magnetic field by virtue of the current flowing through them, mu metal can usually be effective wrapped around them. Including the tiny little wires in those short ribbon connectors.

6. All wires, capacitors and circuit boards are subject to vibration generated by the transformer as well as the building structure. The transformer hum/vibration issue can be easily dealt with using cork underneath the transformer to help,isolate the rest of the chassis including circuit boards from the vibration, as the two lads from Pittsburgh demonstrated. The circuit boards themselves can also,be isolate further with cork. The transformer is direct coupled to the chassis with a bolt or some other constraint. This bolt is great for the purposes of shipping but should be removed for best sound. You actually don't want to couple the low frequency vibration to the chassis. Isn't that obvious? The entire electronics device should be isolated from structureborne vibration using a mass on spring isolator, which can be as simple as mechanical springs that have the correct spring rate for the purpose. Very elegant. The low frequency vibration is the real culprit as it is low enough to excite very critical things such as tonearms, cartridges, turntable platters, as well as CD laser assemblies, that are themselves mounted on tiny little spring systems.

7. Capacitors vibrate as a consequence of their operation so they need special treatment such as the highly effective Marigo VTS dots or think cork strips can be woven around banks and rows of capacitors.

8. All screws of the electronics device should be non magnetic for best results. At a minimum, if the screws are magnetic they should be demagnetized periodically.

9. To prevent a lot of flopping around during play the CD outer edge should be beveled with that expensive CD Improver device to correct the common out of round condition. A shortcut is to use three strips of black electrical tape one inch long in an axial pattern on the CD label to stabilize the disc while spinning.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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or

Or you can tune it :)

I invite you to visit http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

michael green
MGA/RoomTune

geoffkait
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Well, that's just swell

Oh,,sure, you can tune it. You can tune it if you don't mind the constant interruption of having to get up,,drag your butt around the room trying like hell to fix the shit sound emanating from your speakers, trying to turn this knob, adjust that spring, squeeze that board. Of course I'm only guessing what tuners actually do between CDs as I have no interest in tuning nor have I been reading any if Michael's long winded tutorials on the subject. Lol

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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like I said

Or you can tune it :)

I invite you to visit http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

In case you haven't noticed geoff, this is exactly what audiophiles like to do. They enjoy putting on their piece of music, and if they want to make an adjustement they/we do. If not wanted or needed we don't, but if we hear something we would like to change (for any reason) we "do" it.

It looks as though all you are able to do is say good or bad, we on the other hand become part of the performance. We're a group of listeners who see each performance as important as the one before and the one after. All these recordings have their own code and we enjoy matching these codes and seeing how far the recording takes us.

You listen to portable cassette players and we explore any part of the recorded code we wish. I take it this is not to your liking, but that's your choice as well as the extreme listeners right to go there. We're happy for you and your path, but maybe a few of us want to go just a little further than a Sony Walkman. there's a bunch of levels and parts to this hobby and this is why we tune.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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Well, actually, it's not either/or
michael green wrote:

Or you can tune it :)

I invite you to visit http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

In case you haven't noticed geoff, this is exactly what audiophiles like to do. They enjoy putting on their piece of music, and if they want to make an adjustement they/we do. If not wanted or needed we don't, but if we hear something we would like to change (for any reason) we "do" it.

It looks as though all you are able to do is say good or bad, we on the other hand become part of the performance. We're a group of listeners who see each performance as important as the one before and the one after. All these recordings have their own code and we enjoy matching these codes and seeing how far the recording takes us.

You listen to portable cassette players and we explore any part of the recorded code we wish. I take it this is not to your liking, but that's your choice as well as the extreme listeners right to go there. We're happy for you and your path, but maybe a few of us want to go just a little further than a Sony Walkman. there's a bunch of levels and parts to this hobby and this is why we tune.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

By ignoring all contrary opinions to tuning you have painted yourself into a corner. This is what happens when you are stove piping and developing theories based on your research and results only while ignoring or dismissing or being totally ignorant of what's been going on in the high end of the hobby all around you. I'm not talking about the Michael Green version of reality. We should have been having this discussion twenty years ago. Now I fear tis too late. You're a victim of your own Stove Piping and also of the Backfire Effect, refusing to examine contradictory information and evidence, instead strengthening your own resolve and hunkering down for the criticisms. Lol

"Where are the tweaks?" "I don't SEE any tweaks!" "SHOW me the tweaks! "We've already TRIED all those things!" HaHaHaHa!

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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lack of success

If your upset because your CD's sound...

geoff said

"CDs frequently sound whimpy, congealed, compressed, hard, metallic, nasal, boring, bass shy, airless, soulless and threadbare"

mg

I don't think that gives cause to say to the successful listener much of anything. If I were you instead of bashing any source, I would find out why my playback system was unsuccessful.

geoff, you keep painting a picture that we all need to be trying things and that the tunees are not, but you keep missing that the Tunees are extremely successful listeners. We don't have the same problems with the recordings that you are having.

We promote a successful method of listening, while your promoting that your CD's sound "CDs frequently sound whimpy, congealed, compressed, hard, metallic, nasal, boring, bass shy, airless, soulless and threadbare"

TuneLand listens to many sources and covers tape, tables, Cd's and computer systems. Your welcome to join and find out how to have a more successful listening experience than "CDs frequently sound whimpy, congealed, compressed, hard, metallic, nasal, boring, bass shy, airless, soulless and threadbare"

I'm sorry, this is one of those days where coming here reading geoff is like watching the 40 years of SNL, which BTW was mastered in one of my studio designs.

anyway geoff said

"That's the beauty of invisible tweaks, no one even has to know you've done anything to the wires, and perhaps more importantly no one has to know what those treatments even are."

oh geoff lol. God bless ya dude lol

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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The view from 40,000 feet, dude

Uh, Michael, if I can be so bold to remind you your whole Tuning Foundation is actually based on the premise that CDs sound BAD. Hel-loo! And it's because YOU believe CDs sound inherently BAD that you turn yourself into a prairie dog on crack running around trying to fix, tune, vary, whatever the word in your vocabulary is to get the stupid things to sound BETTER. But as far as reaching anything like Audio Nirvana, let me be the first to inform you that you're not even close. News flash - THERE IS NO AUDIO NIRVANA! It is an ideal that can never be realized. Haven't you been paying attention? You can pretend, sure, if that's what turns you on, dude. As far as Invisible Tweaks go, you're either in denial, won't admit you're wrong or the membrane surrounding your brain is much thicker than I first suspected. Take your pick. Dude.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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tuning concepts

To quote my response on another thread.

"Tuning is based on the fact that all recordings are unique, all sources are unique and all playback systems and conditions are unique, and require certain adjustments to be made to hear the recordings at any particular level of quality.

As audio products are designed, built and then shipped they almost always end up in different playback conditions than their origin factories. This is one area and level of tuning, but as a person becomes more aware as an audiophile they may move up in levels of listening and customize their systems for their personal listening lifestyle. This can be as simple as voicing the sound of the room or having a complete tunable system, stock tuning or mod tuning. We currently make tunable acoustics, funiture, speakers, cable & accessories and mechanical accessories. We will be coming out with our electronics within the next year hopefully. We also design and build complete rooms that respond starting at 7hz and up.

MGA/RoomTune addresses electromagnetic tuning, mechanical transfer for each component and speaker type as well as addressing any vibratory conditions in the audio chain. MGA/RoomTune also has a support forum where the listener both home and pro can have their own on-going thread. There are thousands of articles between the active TuneLand techno-zone and the archieved TuneLand.info.

To find out about our concepts and tuning tools please visit TuneLand and recieve free room analyzing and equipment layouts.

MGA/RoomTune works with every area of the audio chain, from tuning guitar amps, live room, control room, mastering and playback home systems. We've had our own High End Audio stores since 1981 specializing in system matching. Since 2013 MGA/RoomTune and Sound Consultant have teamed up to bring the very best of High End Audio to the marketplace. We are an equal opportunity audio company that works with all component companies, and make custom fitted stands for the Highest of High End as well as the simple setups.

We have just introduced our new series of Turntable Stands, already gaining interest amoung the top Table players.

The MGA D-27tweeter is available next month in Poplar, Hard Maple and Rosewood to be added to the other choices.

The MGA D-27 ranges 900hz-26Khz, featuring voiced hardwood back-plate and matching mounting plate."

geoff if your going to promote MGA/RoomTune, TuneLand or any tuning concepts you might want to visit TuneLand and brush up on your approach.

For the record we love CD's, Vinyl, tape and files.

If we didn't we wouldn't be saying "there is far more info on the source".

Why is it the Tunees are gaining ground and becoming more and more happy and you seem to only be able to focus on negatives any more geoff?

On TuneLand right now they are describing music bliss and your on here describing your sound as "CDs frequently sound whimpy, congealed, compressed, hard, metallic, nasal, boring, bass shy, airless, soulless and threadbare"

Now you are trying to put another spin on things saying I think CD's sound bad when all over this forum and TuneLand I'm saying how much I enjoy them. Everytime you open your mouth is an opportunity for me to share how great music is, how much we love it and how successful the method of tuning is. What would we do without you?

You really have no idea how many people your turning onto tuning do you?

By you spreading unsuccessful listening habbits, we're sitting here with our catchers mitt wide open, but you really don't see it do you? Somewhere in that twisted thinking you actually think your turning listeners away from tuning? Let me share a secret. Any of the guys who would come up here saying negative things about tuning are the guys that, one don't have the greatest of sound, two haven't found the greatest of sounds, three pretend to others that they have found the greatest sound and four would be negative about me and tuning regardless of how their, yours or my system sounds just because they are negative by nature or have the need to sound imporatant in front of others.

geoff

Real listeners are happy and defend great sounding recordings cause they have learned how to get the greatest sound. Look around you, they're not the guys saying how recordings suck. Real audiophiles have become or are on their way to becoming successful listeners. While your saying how bad CD's are they're enjoying the heck out of their recordings, but you don't get that do you? You think that if you stand on your box with your portable sony cassette player your going to somehow turn a page of audio, or maybe if you catch a person at the right time reading (assuming they only read your posts) that they're going to buy into your picture painting of people?

geoff, you continue to be the best ad campaign manager I could have asked for.

you represent "CDs frequently sound whimpy, congealed, compressed, hard, metallic, nasal, boring, bass shy, airless, soulless and threadbare"

and we represent "successful listening"

In all honesty, when I was fed up with this forum and left for a couple of days there was no posting, maybe 2 or 3 posts a day, and as soon as I came back you and may put tuning right dead center infront of the listener again. I even tried to shift the focus to you guys but your personalities couldn't let go and it continues to be a tuning billboard here.

All I have to do is watch you get PDed and follow it with tuning info.

Have a wonderful evening I have a session to get to.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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Geez, there you go again

You're putting words in mouth again, Goldie. I never said the recordings were bad. My whole point is that the original recordings are very good but it's the whole playback of the recordings - especially the CDs - that's the issue. Are you just pretending to be slow? You need to use your listening ears. Put your brain in receive mode for a change. You enjoy CDs AFTER doing all your TUNING magic, NOT before. If you enjoy CDs right out of the box then I suspect you really are deaf after all. All those MG springs and MG knobs and MG widgets in the room have to be doing something, right? Don't you realize that audiophiles tweak and modify to obtain better sound? You do live in a world of your own, don't you? By the way you've managed to turn this thread from The Last Tweak Syndrome into the David Koresh Syndrome. Lol

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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happy to be in the music world

I reject that Mr. kait says sources are bad out of the Box.

If he's calling the music world a world of my own, yep I sure do live it, every day, every night. It's quite the industry and life.

Besides a bad batch of tape, vinyl or CD blanks and any mistakes made by the production company, what is on the source is, on the source. Good or bad at that point is in the domain of the playback system. If a playback system is able to play the unique recorded code faithfully a listener will usually get a few things in return. One is good tonal balance, timbre and real space and size. If the listener doesn't get those, he should look at tuning the recorded code to match the playback system.

Mr kait gets this from playing CD's, these are his words "CDs frequently sound whimpy, congealed, compressed, hard, metallic, nasal, boring, bass shy, airless, soulless and threadbare"

Tape, vinyl, Cd's or files could and do all sound this way if a playback system is not playing them correctly. Pointing to any source as a "bad" source as Mr. kait does, before tuning in the code on a playback is odd. Why would an audiophile judge "a recording" based on what "a playback system" is doing or not doing?

Music reviews are cool, and so are equipment reviews, but the truth of reviewing should be based on what the recording, source storage and equipment have to offer when used as a unit of playback.

High End Audio to move forward has got to put all the pieces together in reviewing. The fact that this hobby is one of subjectivity, points to the need of the understanding of the complete audio chain from start to finish. If someone like Mr. kait for example doesn't understand the recorded code and how it plays a role in the audio chain, and storage/playback, he or anyone lacking this understanding will indeed come to a conclusion of "bad", but this is based on the parts and pieces of the chain that are out-of-tune with other parts, and with this the only conclusion will be bad or at least incomplete.

These threads become rhetorical with those who are still in a place of seeing the parts, but not being able to put them together. Tuning is the method "for" puting them together musically. These threads and hobby will spin forever until tuning is the common bond, the glue that holds the chain together.

What Mr. kait doesn't get is, listeners "are" reading, and they "are" tuning, and they "are" learning more about puting the parts and pieces together as a chain. The next part to that chain, which is already being done by many, is matching the sound of that recording to the sound of that system. Mr. kait nor I or anyone else is going to stop tuning. Tuning is the way music playing and re-playing works. Those few who get upset over this have issues besides the method itself. Probably ego issues with me, or upset over money spent for not, or whatever the reason, but this doesn't and won't change "the last tweak" and that last tweak is tuning itself.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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You don't say?

You don't say?

 photo photo_11_zpsoel2oujx.jpg

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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:)

and we're having fun doing it

http://www.stereophile.com/content/get-tuned-girls-video

:)

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

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The last tweak syndrome

The last tweak syndrome apparently only affects those audiophiles who are interested in improving their lot, not those who have stopped looking or are sitting on their laurels. That's kind of the whole point, is to point out the psychological barriers that exist for those explorers pushing the boundaries. It's not really too surprising if someone isn't buying the proposition that electronics and CDs are an imperfect commodity. That's kind of the fun of pointing it out sometimes, you know, watching people react to the whole idea that things aren't what they think it is. We have for example already seen that the Transformer INHERENTLY distorts the sound, all transformers. And that CD players cannot play the CD properly for a number of reasons like the clear layer isn't perfectly transparent and the CD isn't perfectly ROUND. Not to mention the scattered laser light getting into the photodetector. Not to mention the directionality of wire. Why did Hillary Climb Everest? Because it was there. Even with the psychological disadvantages and there were many of being the first to reach the summit. It must be an exhilarating feeling being on top and looking down these days, observing all those still struggling to get to Base Camp, which if memory serves is only halfway up the mountain. Lol

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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