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ChrisS
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What Geoff does...

Your comments make it very clear now...

You are not a failure at clear, meaningful communication.

You are very good at willful obfuscation.

geoffkait
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More harmless blather...
ChrisS wrote:

Your comments make it very clear now...

You are not a failure at clear, meaningful communication.

You are very good at willful obfuscation.

From the Valley of unhappiness. You might as well get drunk. Everyone else is. Hey, you gave it your best shot.

Cheerios

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

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Welcome to the Blathering Place!

At least, you've used less words to express this "thought"...

Does ethanol fuel your blather?

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Good comeback!
ChrisS wrote:

At least, you've used less words to express this "thought"...

Does ethanol fuel your blather?

Made you look! I was only joking. If you are on prescription drugs let me know and I'll take it easy on you.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
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Hmmm...

Just might explain your weaving and falling here....and the emptiness of your words.

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Stalker Alert! Moderator, Do your duty.
ChrisS wrote:

Just might explain your weaving and falling here....and the emptiness of your words.

The emptiness of my words? Are you insane? You never say anything. You're as useless as tits on a bull. Probably an old Audio Annex nitwit.

Getting back on track anyone interesting in any of the following topics:

1. Mind matter interaction
2. Teleportation Tweak
3. intelligent chip
4. Absorbing invisible light

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

Geoff Kait

ChrisS
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Ya, Ya!

That's the good stuff!

But you interact with everybody like some teenager getting drunk in the dark in his parents basement!

You are all in your head.

No one takes you seriously.

What a waste of an intellect....

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I'm not so sure :)

I wouldn't raise that flag too high Geoff, I'm not sure who the mods would see as the stalker here. From my seat looks like you have cornered that market, just sayin. Coming to the Stereophile forum to see an audio designer talking about systems he doesn't even have as a reference for himself, flaming others when they get different results on your products than you want them to, and putting up pictures to make fun of others, kinda looks like internet stalking to me.

Everyone I have seen you flame have come here with I see as honest attempts of sharing their audio journey only to have you belittle them on the most prestigious audio forum in the world. maybe you should take a look at why the numbers of readers and posters were down to nothing. Now there starting to come back up again, and I think the focus could and should turn from a joke to some listening fun.

No one can force you to change your path but wouldn't it be nice to become a part of the listening and sharing of info here instead of flame central. There's some cool stuff going on here Geoff and I think it's great that people are showing their musical journeys. Maybe it's time for you to share yours instead of starting and fueling flames. The whole idea is the sharing of audio experiences and having forums that create "threads" on topics. When you or anyone come up to disrupt or stir things for the sake of the stir it takes away from developing threads. Threads don't always have to end up where they started but they shouldn't be turned into petty back and forths that you create and bate.

Geoff if you have plenty to share than lets get on with it. I started a thread for you so I and others could see the real Geoff. Is the real Geoff a spin maker or a serious audiophile? Honestly after all this time I still don't know. How could I after seeing what you do to threads. Personalities are one thing and can be worked as people get to know each other but turning stereophile into audio mysteries and jokes is not a good light for the phile or the industry.

It truly hurt me when Catch called me narcissitic, and I had to stop and see if I was doing my posting here to help others or simply pound my chest. Well I'm here to push an agenda that I feel is for the good of the hobby and will have to put up with others who may not see it that way. Regardless it helped me to layout my method here for all to see and think about. Some may get it and some not, but there it is along with the reference to the place they can explore it.

I say this because I and others have missed your agenda. I don't see anyone here who has givin you a hard time doing it out of anything than what you have created. If building flames is your agenda than alright we will treat you as such, but if music is your agenda, wouldn't it be more productive to focus on what you have to offer as a listener first and folloed as a designer?

I don't know Geoff, I see people wanting to be your friend and you seeing this as a place to promote and attack after they give the results. that's my honest take as someone in the same biz. I wish it were different, and think it can be if you would share your agenda and let people explore as they wish. When someone doesn't like my stuff it's not my job to attack them and say they were wrong, but offer my hand to them and see if I can help them no matter how they need to get to their goal. You know Geoff I think in all these years I could probably count on my hands those who didn't like my method and product once they got started. I'm sure there are more, but I don't go after someone if they don't understand or even simply don't want to. I'm here to help the ones who do want, not beat up on the ones who don't.

This isn't a game or just a hobby, this is a big part of peoples lives we influence. As a designer in audio we need to honor that these people spend and want to spend quality time with music. They may or may not want what we have to offer but either way we need to provide as much as we can, and be willing to share our own listening with them as not only designers but fellow listeners.

just some thoughts

michael green
MGA/RoomTune

geoffkait
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The friend of my enemy is my enemy

If you support my stalker you are not going to score points with me, my friend. ChrisS is just some old dude wearing a black raincoat. He's been stalking me for quite a while. Notice how he never really says anything. I mean other than those weird snotty comments. Duh!

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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I see what I read

Hi Geoff

I see what I read, and my dealings with ChrisS have been, him telling me right off the batt about his music experiences. Speaking for myself that's a great way to start in a hobby that is about listening. My first dealing with you however (after us both agreeing that foam was of the devil) was you asking me to join the Geoff team of listening as if I had no experiences of my own. The rest of them from then on (with a few exceptions) are based on you schooling others without working with them to find the truths that audio holds. When I saw you and I had different views I offered to reference with you and you turned this into a game of insults to which has puzzled me and still does. I can't get my head around why someone in the audio business wants to talk their way through it when they can be listening through it? This is the hobby and industry of listening not the hobby of debate. I made this clear to both you and May, that this was where I was coming from and was flooded with more talk. That's when I started a thread to get to know the two of you hoping for some common bonds to be made, but have to say have been shocked by the what seems to me as very starange side tracks fill with pathes, clues, mysteries but no real method or foundation. I'm being honest about this. I was thinking that you and May had something for me to do or studied that I have never done before and maybe I could learn and incorporate, so I asked, but never got an answer, but was told I was given clues. Clues to what? Something that I'm being told I haven't addressed when in fact I have been addressing forever.

If someone is going to offer something that is "sound advice" we want to see it, and see what you've done with it, and learn how to make it a part of our listening or at least testing. However if someone says to you they have gone down this path you say "no you haven't", when they say "well show me" you go off on a spin of some sort. And that spin turns into a fire that keeps being fueled.

I honestly feel that people who are interested in your point of view have a hard time finding your point because of all the twist and turns you put them through to get there, and it makes them wonder where there is. You tell me to freeze, I do, give my results. You tell Bill & Dan to test, they give their results. In every case I see like this with you it turns into a put down, followed by a world of spins. I think that if you brought us closer to your personal listening world much of this would go away.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune

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Geoff, you need to get out of your house, now...

...and again.

How can you call anyone who is trying to get to know you an enemy?

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I like secret admirers as much as the next guy
ChrisS wrote:

...and again.

How can you call anyone who is trying to get to know you an enemy?

But this is getting serious. Have you given any consideration to a nice long cold shower?

Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
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Captain Kirk, I presume...

What kind of intellect hides behind these pictures?

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Geoff, was that a selfie?

Always thought you look worse than that.

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What a great forum

This must be the only Internet audio forum where they line up waiting patently for a swift kick in the yarbles, which I'm only too happy to administer. Is this a great country or what?

;-)

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Makes sense

Geoff,

That basically sums up your approach, doesn't it. Everyone is an adversary just waiting to take out.

Sad.

Look in the mirror once in a while, my friend, and holster the keyboard ... that thing is getting worn out.

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Oh, it's all my fault, eh?

Once the A word rears it's head and the phd can only talk about human feces and my stalker gets all chummy the discussion is pretty much finished. You're just playing dumb, right?

The normal Tuning sermon will resume in...fifteen minutes, please be patient.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamcia

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Where's the listener

Geoff,

Have you not taken an adversarial and confrontational approach since pretty much the beginning. Even in your response you attack ... Why are you so threatened by the thoughts and ideas of others.

Is it that you don't like another 'preacher' in town poaching your flock, so to speak?

Costin and you go way back when you started deflecting his questions on your Morphic resonance ideas which eventually boiled down to you admitting placebo effect was most likely at play.
You have to take in context that discussion took place after you started hijacking tuning threads.

Chris senses the same deflection.

Unfortunately those dynamics have festered into where we are today.

A little joking and ribbing is cool but it has gone beyond that at this point.

We know you like to scrap .. And I know you don't agree with the concepts in tuning .. But where is the sharing of the hobby as listeners ... Aren't we after the same thing ..

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in the business vs in the hobby

I was probably to busy early on in life to realize this or care in the pro world, but when I got involve in the high end audio world an awareness came to me like an apple hitting me in the head. There is a huge percentage of people in this business who are not in this hobby. It's like the salesman who works at mercedes but has always taken the bus home. They walk you to the back parking lot and say trust me this does 0-60 in, but don't tell you that the day before the engine was removed from the car. They drop off the car and leave the keys under the mat hoping you'll never find them.

My first few shows as a designer was a rude awakening. After a buzz got around, I would show up at a show and it would be non-stop getting other companies systems up and runing. This panic happened to the very last day of the show when the companies would say WTH and pack up. I never saw so many people not wanting to listen. On opening show day these folks would be standing around sayin all the right words, and when 6 came were no where to be found. I probably had 10 to 15 keys of other peoples systems with the "invitation" to go listen to their systems and do whatever I wanted every show. First few times I thought it was a sharing thing, all of us are listeners right? Right! I started then showing up at shows and people would be waiting for me to come and set their system up, like I helped them once and now this is mg's job. I would get tons of invites to come listen to hi-enders systems when I would be touring. It was like land and how soon can you start fixing the sound of peoples systems, and the weird part was, these people came to expect it as if I was a service being paid by the industry somehow. After a while I realized that no one else was doing this (stupid me) and that most of these people had at best partially setup systems to begin with. First couple of years I spent over a hundred grand per year helping people, and on top of that my business floated over the same amount to stores that never paid for product. The community that I thought would be all about the sound was full of people who didn't even have systems or very messed up systems in their homes. I'd go to a tiny factory and see parts all over the bench and a half way converted corner of the building with some sort of test room or many times just a space. I'd think to myself, well at dinner tonight I'll do some listening at their home. I'd get there and a system was thrown in a room not even playing. ? these were the same people I met at shows? I would go to these shows and this equipment would be sitting there looking absolutely beautiful. I (for the show hours) never heard so much equipment talk in my life. Shoot even after what I experienced on the road I still felt that compulsive side to write a check, and honestly did, not even based on what I heard in the room but what I heard form the designer.

This lasted a while and a few hundreds of thousands of dollars less in my account, but it did eventually sink in that maybe this business was not exactly what I thought it was. Maybe just maybe there was a lot of the right language picked up to make people either reach into their pockets or at least walk away feeling beaten up by someone that was an expert at hitting all the emotional buttons A to Z. Maybe this industry has a bunch of skilled people in the art of pushing "better" and "improvement", capitalizing on all the right audiophile buzz words and making the few who say "I liked it" look like multitudes. An army of sales people who have the gift of whispering in our ears. This same army though standing by to go on the attack at a momments notice. A group of people who do everything right except for doing the very thing that this hobby and industry demands, listening together.

I don't know folks I see an awful lot of people in this business but probably not in this hobby.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune

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Once again, you are putting words in my mouth
toledo wrote:

Geoff,

Have you not taken an adversarial and confrontational approach since pretty much the beginning. Even in your response you attack ... Why are you so threatened by the thoughts and ideas of others.

Is it that you don't like another 'preacher' in town poaching your flock, so to speak?

Costin and you go way back when you started deflecting his questions on your Morphic resonance ideas which eventually boiled down to you admitting placebo effect was most likely at play.
You have to take in context that discussion took place after you started hijacking tuning threads.

Chris senses the same deflection.

Unfortunately those dynamics have festered into where we are today.

A little joking and ribbing is cool but it has gone beyond that at this point.

We know you like to scrap .. And I know you don't agree with the concepts in tuning .. But where is the sharing of the hobby as listeners ... Aren't we after the same thing ..

I never said I don't agree with the concepts on tuning. Try to quote me correctly. How many times do I have to show what you guys say are Strawman arguments? You are putting words in my mouth I did not say. Can I make it any clearer? What I said about tuning was that what you guys call tuning is actually something else, either damping or isolation in many cases and the issue with the transformer is not weight but magnetism and that tuning doesn't GO FAR ENOUGH as I've already pointed out many times, you know, what with scattered laser light, directionality of wire, mind matter interaction issues galore, transparency of the polycarbonate layer, magnetic fields galore, RFI/EMI issues galore, vibration issues galore, many of which you guys conveniently SWEEP UNDER THE CARPET and steadfastly refuse to address, for some bizarre reason you never actually respond to my complaints but move blindly on to the next Tuning sermon installment like robots. Now I may have said something like Tuners have blinders on or Tuning as a methodology is incomplete or too dogmatic, inflexible and incapable of change. Now, THAT I did say.

Chris is a troll and a stalker. Don't you know that? Boy, are you naive.

Poaching his flock? I am not a competitor of his. Don't you see that? That is the old Ethan Winer argument. Ethan was the master at trying to portray all other tweaks as inferior or unscientific or ineffective. Same old same old.

Cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Right Church Wrong Pew
michael green wrote:

I was probably to busy early on in life to realize this or care in the pro world, but when I got involve in the high end audio world an awareness came to me like an apple hitting me in the head. There is a huge percentage of people in this business who are not in this hobby. It's like the salesman who works at mercedes but has always taken the bus home. They walk you to the back parking lot and say trust me this does 0-60 in, but don't tell you that the day before the engine was removed from the car. They drop off the car and leave the keys under the mat hoping you'll never find them.

My first few shows as a designer was a rude awakening. After a buzz got around, I would show up at a show and it would be non-stop getting other companies systems up and runing. This panic happened to the very last day of the show when the companies would say WTH and pack up. I never saw so many people not wanting to listen. On opening show day these folks would be standing around sayin all the right words, and when 6 came were no where to be found. I probably had 10 to 15 keys of other peoples systems with the "invitation" to go listen to their systems and do whatever I wanted every show. First few times I thought it was a sharing thing, all of us are listeners right? Right! I started then showing up at shows and people would be waiting for me to come and set their system up, like I helped them once and now this is mg's job. I would get tons of invites to come listen to hi-enders systems when I would be touring. It was like land and how soon can you start fixing the sound of peoples systems, and the weird part was, these people came to expect it as if I was a service being paid by the industry somehow. After a while I realized that no one else was doing this (stupid me) and that most of these people had at best partially setup systems to begin with. First couple of years I spent over a hundred grand per year helping people, and on top of that my business floated over the same amount to stores that never paid for product. The community that I thought would be all about the sound was full of people who didn't even have systems or very messed up systems in their homes. I'd go to a tiny factory and see parts all over the bench and a half way converted corner of the building with some sort of test room or many times just a space. I'd think to myself, well at dinner tonight I'll do some listening at their home. I'd get there and a system was thrown in a room not even playing. ? these were the same people I met at shows? I would go to these shows and this equipment would be sitting there looking absolutely beautiful. I (for the show hours) never heard so much equipment talk in my life. Shoot even after what I experienced on the road I still felt that compulsive side to write a check, and honestly did, not even based on what I heard in the room but what I heard form the designer.

This lasted a while and a few hundreds of thousands of dollars less in my account, but it did eventually sink in that maybe this business was not exactly what I thought it was. Maybe just maybe there was a lot of the right language picked up to make people either reach into their pockets or at least walk away feeling beaten up by someone that was an expert at hitting all the emotional buttons A to Z. Maybe this industry has a bunch of skilled people in the art of pushing "better" and "improvement", capitalizing on all the right audiophile buzz words and making the few who say "I liked it" look like multitudes. An army of sales people who have the gift of whispering in our ears. This same army though standing by to go on the attack at a momments notice. A group of people who do everything right except for doing the very thing that this hobby and industry demands, listening together.

I don't know folks I see an awful lot of people in this business but probably not in this hobby.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune

That's nice but shouldn't that all be placed in some other thread? What's that have to do with the price of tea in China? Maybe start a new thread, Michaels Life History.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
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How Geoff Thinks...

"...putting words in my mouth..."

"...doesn't GO FAR ENOUGH..."

"...conveniently SWEEP UNDER THE CARPET..."

"...what's that have to do with the price of tea?..."

"...the old Ethan Winer argument..."

Accusing others of doing exactly what he does.

Look at the pattern. Round and round.

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Directionality of Transfomer wiring, caps and resistors

Geoff,

Not sure why this is a tuning issue .. kind of a trick question .. all methods have to deal with manufactured products and most hobbyists are not DIYers that build their own components.

I applaud your initiative if you have found a way to deal with this in an effective and quickly implemented and reversible fashion to verify a preferred change was made and there are no unintended compounding consequences.

Given that wire directionality issue is a subtle difference and the number of permutations required to flip each capacitor and resistor, detect if a preferred change occured (and flip back to preclude any unintended compounding issues) and the system settle time after each change, that is some monster modding.

So if you factor in all the areas that would affect the sound of a system after one change alone and not mask the true effects of the change -
- 1 day per flip just to account for the power down cycle and letting the system equalize afer shutdown (it takes at least a day for my system to get back to equilibrium after a cold start and is why i keep it on 24/7)
- the time for the system to settle down to the one change
- the time to really determine if a discernible and preferred change occured
- the time to reverse the change.
- the different soldering techniques between original OEM and DIY and the potential for cold solder joints (i cannot duplicate a machine solder) and sizes of resistors which are approaching surface mount sizes.
- the different soldering compounds used

So how many caps and resistors are in just a typical amp .. that is one heck of a job.

I would have to ask you how you deal with transformer wiring directionality .. do you dissassemble and flip the leads .. what about the wiring in the windings.

Have you done all these tweaks to your Oppo player and headphone amp.

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You have misunderstood what I said
toledo wrote:

Geoff,

Not sure why this is a tuning issue .. kind of a trick question .. all methods have to deal with manufactured products and most hobbyists are not DIYers that build their own components.

I applaud your initiative if you have found a way to deal with this in an effective and quickly implemented and reversible fashion to verify a preferred change was made and there are no unintended compounding consequences.

Given that wire directionality issue is a subtle difference and the number of permutations required to flip each capacitor and resistor, detect if a preferred change occured (and flip back to preclude any unintended compounding issues) and the system settle time after each change, that is some monster modding.

So if you factor in all the areas that would affect the sound of a system after one change alone and not mask the true effects of the change -
- 1 day per flip just to account for the power down cycle and letting the system equalize afer shutdown (it takes at least a day for my system to get back to equilibrium after a cold start and is why i keep it on 24/7)
- the time for the system to settle down to the one change
- the time to really determine if a discernible and preferred change occured
- the time to reverse the change.
- the different soldering techniques between original OEM and DIY and the potential for cold solder joints (i cannot duplicate a machine solder) and sizes of resistors which are approaching surface mount sizes.
- the different soldering compounds used

So how many caps and resistors are in just a typical amp .. that is one heck of a job.

I would have to ask you how you deal with transformer wiring directionality .. do you dissassemble and flip the leads .. what about the wiring in the windings.

Have you done all these tweaks to your Oppo player and headphone amp.

Am am not at all suggesting anyone flip capacitors and resistors or rewire transformers but it is very easy to reverse interconnects and fuses. And listen for the results. The reason I mentioned all of the other things that involve wire is simply to point out out far we are from perfection. The manufacturers of transformers, capacitors and resistors and the manufacturers of electronic components should be on notice to make sure all internal wiring etc. Is in the right direction. You do see the absurdity of my demand, right?

You think wire directionality is subtle? You have not heard it on a good system, my friend.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamics

toledo
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Why bring it up, then

Geoff,

Then why bring issues like this up on tuning threads like its something we have to deal with. It is what it is.
If a tuner wishes to address it, they can DIY a component just like everyone else.

Ya, we agree, there are tons of things that need addressing in plug and play components.

And dont you think tuners (as previous tweakers) have done fuses and flipping ICs (wont even get into the IC swap game as tone controls ;) )

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well I think

Hi Toledo, great post BTW

I too thought it odd that geoff was bringing up stuff on the method thread without looking into our research. Kinda funny in a way. Got emails as far away as China today, basically saying "the method of tuning makes more sense than any other audio system approach he has ever heard of". Nice that people are taking the time to read and ask questions or even geoff bringing up stuff that shows the difference between fixing problems vs not designing problems in the first place.

Harold Cooper (listening guru) just landed in town, and I'm looking forward to some great music together. Tomorrow some designing on the 2015 Tunable Speaker line. Yeah! can't wait. I mentioned to him about the IC and Fuse thing, he said almost exactly what you did "why aren't these guys just tuning it". I think maybe it comes down do, you really have to be involved in the act of doing to make a meaningful and educated opinion.

At the end (or should I say begining) of all of this people are going to do according to their interest and when they do, that changes everything. A major question is going to be "why do I have all this stuff"? The audiophile doesn't need all these things that have to be fixed to get the sound or any sound they want. I think it's good though that people are expressing many different angles to this, most of them coming from the view point of a fixed spot, but in time they will see that we are not saying any fixed spot is wrong. What we are saying is why not have all the choices instead of working so hard on "the one". Why not "the one" and every other? Then the remark comes up "well that can't be as good as high end"? Why not? Why wouldn't a CD player, amp, speakers, beat up on a transport, DAC, pre, amp, speakers with inductors? Why wouldn't one IC beat up on 3? Why wouldn't one fuse beat up on 3? No chassis beat up on 4? One transformer and one tiny one beat up on 4? Why wouldn't no crossover inductors beat up on 2 or 4?

Why do I want products that I have to fix, 3 times the amount of them over what is needed to do the job? 3 times more cable, drivers, inductors, transformers, chassis, power cords, outlets, fuses and the list goes on. Face it, we way over built this thing now it's unmanagable. People say "well at least I don't have to tune", BS you've bought 5 whole systems and still tweaking. You can listen to maybe a third of the music produced out there and even with recordings you like they go from too bassy to too brittle. Hey were audiophiles too remember, we know what your getting cause all of us went through the same thing, so don't tell us you have a magic system cause we know better. We know we could walk into your house right now with ten CD's and many 2 or 3 of them would sound ok. Face it recordings are "different". We're not trying to get on anyone case we're just stating the facts. You play recordings on a fixed system and you are going to like the sound of some and not others, I'm talking about good recordings here. I played 3 recordings today, all audiophile quality and all 3 sounded completely different. With these 3 I could decide if I wanted to listen to them in the same setting or change the setting per. Just knowing that I had that choice made things more pleasant. I didn't sit there and say "oh crap, not going to listen to that one tonight". Instead I knew exactly what change and how to take me where I wanted to go if I choose. Now how much would someone pay for that? If this is about sound guys, how much? Come on you guys would give anything to get that, it's what you've always wanted. What's screwin with you is the fact that you can have that system for peanuts compared to what you've dumped in. There is no reason to spend the major bucks to get the best sound of your life! So what is this hobby about, listening or collecting components? Components that need to be fixed to only give you one sound. That's a raw deal to me boys. We're not giving bad news we're sharing good.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune

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Directionality of wire (cont'd)
toledo wrote:

Geoff,

Then why bring issues like this up on tuning threads like its something we have to deal with. It is what it is.
If a tuner wishes to address it, they can DIY a component just like everyone else.

Ya, we agree, there are tons of things that need addressing in plug and play components.

And dont you think tuners (as previous tweakers) have done fuses and flipping ICs (wont even get into the IC swap game as tone controls ;) )

That's kind of missing my whole point, that wire directionality is an issue whether you're a Tweaker or a Tuner. Trying to dodge the bullet by claiming ithat ICs are tone controls entirely ignores the whole question. One thing I've noticed Tuners are quite adept at dodging the issue thing. As with transformers, ignoring the induced magnetism issue and moving the transformers off to some Safe Haven, hoping the whole problem will just please go away!! All this huffing and puffing is essentially the same old Ethan Winer Defense we are quite familiar with here on Stereophile Forum. Let me paraphrase the Ethan Winer Defense: My products/methodology is the only one that actually works and all others are either scientifically impossible or only change the sound, not improve it.

News Flash from Tuning Central....Someone in China makes a positive comment about Tuning. Ooooooo....Lol

My favorite comment from Michael in the last several weeks was his bold statement that Tuners don't overlook anything. it's a good thing for me I wasn't drinking milk when I read that. I have already pointed out a great many things you guys have obviously overlooked, well, maybe ignored or dismissed is more like it. I realize you two have a problem with being "schooled" as you like to put it but, come on, learning doesn't have to be a painful experience. Well, not always. Lol. But putting yourselves into a state of bliss won't magically make these problems disappear.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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missing something

Hi geoff

We would like to give as thorough of a report to the readers as there is, so could you give a list for us all the things you are saying we miss or don't do. At that point we could go through them one step at a time. Dodging, dismissing or ignoring is certainly not something we would ever want to do.

I'd like to invite readers to "the method of tuning" http://www.stereophile.com/content/method-tuning and to TuneLand http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/ where we are happy to give a response to any part of the audio chain that you may not have found on our site or the thread on this site.

geoff said

"News Flash from Tuning Central....Someone in China makes a positive comment about Tuning. Ooooooo....Lol"

mg

Yep, I get pretty excited when people from other parts of the world are able to see the truth in a hobby that many times is covered with so many veils. This morning was a fella from Austria. It's nice to wake up and see where in the world people are enjoying the method of tuning. Maybe that means little to you, but for myself this connection between designer and listener is a total thrill.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune

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Huh? Do my eyes deceive me?

Michael, I'm sure there must be some mistake. I'm pretty sure you just asked me to list all the things I think you guys are missing. That can't be right because I have been talking about all of the things you guys are missing since day one. You just keep rolling along like a big old shark like nothing happened with your strategy to turn every thread into a TuneLand Billboard. It's uncanny. Lol

"He's either really smart or really dumb." - Quint in the movie Jaws

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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well geoff

Hi geoff

So do you have a list for us to look at one at a time or not? I have listening guru Harold Cooper here with me now and maybe he will add his voice to the topic since you are having a hard time with others.

here's Harold

Geoff,

I was very skeptical of the whole tuning thing myself until I came to Michael's place in Vegas and experienced it myself first hand. I had always used Michael's pillow products and some PZC's on occasion in my rooms, with excellent results. But going the final steps made me skeptical. Coming here and sitting in his room (and it is a very humble room in the world of tuning) - it totally blew me away! I had never heard recordings that I knew sound that great - extreme width, depth, 3D soundstage, and surround sound all from a humble system! If you haven't heard this - you have no leg to stand on to criticize this method. I also experienced the full tunable room that Michael designed for a client in Chicago. The owner gave the the wrench and I started listening and adjusting panels. WOW! WOW! It was so intuitive, and I could get the sound I wanted for every recording I tried. If I had one of these (I will someday) I would never leave the house! I have been to the mountain and shaken hands with the auricle!
Geoff - I suggest you start making comments about your listening (oh, that's right - you don't have a system - my bad) The bottom line is - it's all about the music, and damn the details! Let's do what gets us closer to the music, and that is the tuning method!

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Everything, Geoff...

....You see and hear is a deception.

That's what everyone else has figured out about you.

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My pet pig Algernon
michael green wrote:

Hi geoff

So do you have a list for us to look at one at a time or not? I have listening guru Harold Cooper here with me now and maybe he will add his voice to the topic since you are having a hard time with others.

here's Harold

Geoff,

I was very skeptical of the whole tuning thing myself until I came to Michael's place in Vegas and experienced it myself first hand. I had always used Michael's pillow products and some PZC's on occasion in my rooms, with excellent results. But going the final steps made me skeptical. Coming here and sitting in his room (and it is a very humble room in the world of tuning) - it totally blew me away! I had never heard recordings that I knew sound that great - extreme width, depth, 3D soundstage, and surround sound all from a humble system! If you haven't heard this - you have no leg to stand on to criticize this method. I also experienced the full tunable room that Michael designed for a client in Chicago. The owner gave the the wrench and I started listening and adjusting panels. WOW! WOW! It was so intuitive, and I could get the sound I wanted for every recording I tried. If I had one of these (I will someday) I would never leave the house! I have been to the mountain and shaken hands with the auricle!
Geoff - I suggest you start making comments about your listening (oh, that's right - you don't have a system - my bad) The bottom line is - it's all about the music, and damn the details! Let's do what gets us closer to the music, and that is the tuning method!

My pet pig Algernon Swineburn has really really good ears and he thinks my system is rockin'. Soundstage as wide as Kansas.

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If at first you don't succeed try the outfield. Old audiophile expression.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
We said it would be fun we just didn't say for who

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Call the ASPCA

Poor Algernon having to listen to a tweaked system .. that's just not right .. have mercy on the little guy .. just plain cruel ...

Oh well, if he dies from boredom listening to the same limited music on a non tuned system there's always the pig roast .. yum.

At some point we'll get Geoff to be a listener or will tell us about his methods instead of telling us what he thinks is wrong with tuning ...... when pigs fly, of course.

When will Geoff bring home some savory, tuned bacon to try for himself instead of squealing about it.

;)

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toledo wrote:
toledo wrote:

Poor Algernon having to listen to a tweaked system .. that's just not right .. have mercy on the little guy .. just plain cruel ...

Oh well, if he dies from boredom listening to the same limited music on a non tuned system there's always the pig roast .. yum.

At some point we'll get Geoff to be a listener or will tell us about his methods instead of telling us what he thinks is wrong with tuning ...... when pigs fly, of course.

When will Geoff bring home some savory, tuned bacon to try for himself instead of squealing about it.

;)

Algernon doesn't like crossover distortion. Nor is he fond of comb filter effects. And he abhors phase distortion from multiple speaker drivers. And he has grown quite displeased with magnetic fields from all transformers, power cords and interconnects. He also is rather apathetic with respect to getting up off his nice comfy couch and having to tune the system and room for every stinking recording. To all of those things Algernon says, grunt grunt! On the other hand Algernon adores Class A SET tube amps. Oink, oink!

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Who can deny a pet

Maybe Algernon recalls his memories before tuning pressure zones and simple systems.. But if that is what he likes ... Who can deny a pet.

I have to admit, my Max also loved his SET but would not sit for too long .... He wanted a little more beef in his dog bowl .. Try as he may and no matter how much he kicked his bowl around ... Same old vittles.

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I must not have developed an ear for crossover distortion

People's taste in audio and music change over time. That's why I think it so pitiful to down somebody for a simple system that consists of phones and SET tubes. There's just so many problems that can be eliminated, but certainly a trade-off is being made, as is always the case. Things I would be willing to trade now probably differ quite a bit than things I would have been willing to trade years ago.

I'm still energetic enough to prefer push-pull over the triodes, but give me a few more years and who knows?

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"Is that all there is?"

Looks like that is all we get of Geoff here...

1) A person who sells products

2) A cartoon

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Well Geoff

Hi Geoff,

What appears surprising Geoff is how the "listening guru Harry Cooper" who was supposed to be staying at Michael's and who replied to you personally exhibited a similar spelling error to the ones that Michael occasionally makes.

Just rather odd - without Harry dictated and Michael typed !!!!

Regards,
May Belt,
PWB Electonics.

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Yes, that's interesting
May Belt wrote:

Hi Geoff,

What appears surprising Geoff is how the "listening guru Harry Cooper" who was supposed to be staying at Michael's and who replied to you personally exhibited a similar spelling error to the ones that Michael occasionally makes.

Just rather odd - without Harry dictated and Michael typed !!!!

Regards,
May Belt,
PWB Electonics.

What was even more peculiar was the vocabulary of Harold Cooper on display. "WOW! WOW!" You would think he might have given some specifics given this was his opportunity to really step up to the plate and knock one out of the park and sell the wholeTuning thing. Oh, well, maybe he's just a listening guru, not an English language guru. Algernon the pig is a listening guru, too and says, GRUNT, GRUNT!

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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The art of rabble rousing

May and Geoff,

Do you really want to go on record that those are not someone else's valid listening impressions. The art of innuendo.

Perhaps there are some that have not perfected the art of Internet rabble rousing and do not wish to indulge in it. ... You guys have had years of experience in the art of talk and attacking or belittling or wearing down people with the same repetitive arguments with anyone that disagrees with you. This thread is an homage to your perfected talking skills.

You can find lots of folks up on tuneland or tuneland archives that prefer to quietly perfect their tuning and listening skills than to work on their wordsmithing skills ..

Where are the methods, the doing, the listening. I would love to see you two put together a "The method of tweaking" thread and how all your tweaks are combined into a method that addresses the system as a whole and not particular areas you find objectionable or wish to enhance. Be sure to discuss how you address playback of all music and not just a limited subset which all high end hobbyists are quite familiar with. Its not called a music system by chance.

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Hey Geoff and and May Belt

Yes, I am very real and it's Harold, not Harry! The fact that you thought I was made up is a total insult to me and this forum! If you could actually be in a room where you could make one adjustment to one panel by tightening or loosening a screw and totally change the overall sound, wouldn't you say WOW! WOW!? We are here to bring enjoyment to the listeners out there and give them a method to get there. You guys are strictly here to give childish responses and put up cartoons just to keep your personal war going. I'm not into that and don't look for me to respond to any more of your posts because it's just a total waste of my time. It's a shame people like you are even in this industry - you give high end audio and the simple enjoyment of a great system A very bad vibe. This is about people enjoying, not destroying this industry! You guys must have a lot of spare time on your hands to post so often and have it be all crap! I myself am too busy with a real life to waste my time in your petty fight. I suggest you get a real life and buzz off!

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Oh, it's for real, Baby!
hcooper99 wrote:

Yes, I am very real and it's Harold, not Harry! The fact that you thought I was made up is a total insult to me and this forum! If you could actually be in a room where you could make one adjustment to one panel by tightening or loosening a screw and totally change the overall sound, wouldn't you say WOW! WOW!? We are here to bring enjoyment to the listeners out there and give them a method to get there. You guys are strictly here to give childish responses and put up cartoons just to keep your personal war going. I'm not into that and don't look for me to respond to any more of your posts because it's just a total waste of my time. It's a shame people like you are even in this industry - you give high end audio and the simple enjoyment of a great system A very bad vibe. This is about people enjoying, not destroying this industry! You guys must have a lot of spare time on your hands to post so often and have it be all crap! I myself am too busy with a real life to waste my time in your petty fight. I suggest you get a real life and buzz off!

Our listening guru went ape over the latest tweaks at chez Machina Dynamica. No, it's not a selfie!

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Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Primitive listening

Well going ape and being happier than a pig in !$!$ certainly fits the whole Morphic Resonance tweaking stuff ... I thought that new age'ey stuff related to more primitive levels.

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where are the listeners

Hi Toledo, who are these A**holes?

We're going to need to put up an ad for real listeners here. May pissing off Harold, how stupid!

Harold didn't even know who May & Geoff were. Good first impressions idiots! And we wonder why no one comes to the stereophile forum. Classless!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune

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Just wonder why the most aggressive comments

Come from the folks who sell snake oil "tweaks" based on unproven theories.
Maybe they are afraid that describing a scientific method of achieving better sound will expose their scam?
Maybe they realize that adjusting tension in a piece of wood (and thus changing its resonant frequency) is much more logical than writing messages on the mirrors and hoping the "amoeba brain" will feel at ease?
Maybe they feel listeners are now a grown-up category and cannot be deceived anymore?
Maybe they know the'll go the way of the Dodo and fight for their miserable lives?
Not sure, but I just see what they are doing and yes, it's a shame!

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I'll tell you

I'll tell you what Costin, Harold was laughing at all three today, May, Geoff and Stereophile. He read some of these threads and what has gone on and was discused with Stereophile. Shocked that this magazine drop so much in class. Blown away when he saw May & Geoff's websites, but I think what really got him was how classless May & Geoff were toward him. This type of thing has got to stop or the quality people are going to want no part of this hobby, or at least the way they see it through the Stereophile view point. Harold is truely the nicest guy in this biz and they treated him wrong, and I have seen this type of thing happen since we came to share and get to know you guys.

All I can say tonight is, holy crap Stereophile, you lost the respect of one classy guy. Why in the world would stereophile let what we have thought of as the classiest audio mag become a place of bottom dwellers?

Start pissing off some of the gentleman of audio and stereophile is going to loose face pretty quick. Tonight at least Costin this place looks and feels like a joke!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune

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They Are Their Own Tragedy...

1) Having wasted their intellect

2) Trashed their own personal and business cred

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Same story, different forum

The thing is May and Geoff don't care how they are viewed. Its the same story from forum to forum.
They are a traveling caravan as they wear out their welcome or get booted from a forum.

Stereophile does need to make the hard choice of whether or not they want to be associated with this type of BS.

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Stereophile Doesn't Really Have To Do Anything...

Readers know who and what these people are now.

Since there is no point interacting with them...

They will disappear.

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Harold's posting

Hello Toledo,

>>> “Do you really want to go on record that those are not someone else's valid listening impressions. “ <<<

The whole situation was so very odd, so I challenged the reasoning behind Michael’s decision to ask yet another person to put a posting, on the chat forum, DIRECTLY and PERSONALLY to Geoff, but yet saying similar words and sentences which Michael uses constantly.

Michael said :-

>>> “I have listening guru Harold Cooper here with me now and maybe he will add his voice to the topic since you are having a hard time with others. “ <<<

Did Michael believe that even though Geoff so obviously understands what Michael is on about when Michael describes his “variable tuning methods” that another person, saying something similar, would allow Geoff to understand EVEN better ?

Michael said :-

>>> “May pissing off Harold, how stupid! “ <<<

And, Harold had the right of reply and he replied.

Harold’s “posting” was a direct and personal posting to Geoff and I was pointing out to Geoff that there was this peculiarity in Harold’s writing that mirrored Michael’s occasional peculiarity – in that when he doesn’t know the correct spelling for a word (in the speed of the moment of writing it) he reverts to using the phonetic version. This is no problem because people can usually understand a phonetic version as well as the correct version but nevertheless, it is a peculiarity which is not so common, certainly not so common as to have two people, in the same room, exhibit the same peculiarity.

Michael said :-

>>> “Harold is truely the nicest guy in this biz” <<<

I still think it very odd that Michael would ask someone he describes as the “nicest guy in this biz” and a complete stranger to Geoff, to become involved in a personal spat Michael has with Geoff !!!!

Either Geoff can understand fully from Michael’s OWN writings and descriptions or he can’t. Getting someone else to say words and sentences similar to the words and sentences which Michael uses is surely not going to make one iota of difference. So, why do it ?

I personally don’t think Harold should have been brought into this whole issue, by Michael, in the first place !! If Michael is involved in a spat with Geoff, then it should stay between Michael and Geoff.

Harold’s posting was not just someone else describing their experiences of Michael’s techniques, Harold’s posting (instigated by Michael) was a DIRECT posting addressed DIRECTLY to Geoff !!

I repeat how it all actually started :-

Michael said – to Geoff :-
>>> “I have listening guru Harold Cooper here with me now and maybe he will add his voice to the topic since you are having a hard time with others. “ <<<

All very odd.

Regards,
May Belt,
PWB Electronics.

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