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March 27, 2012 - 6:04pm
#1
Fremer Vindicated
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fremer "vindicated". huh? was there something to " vindicate". i thought the only real question was enjoying music, by whatever means meets one's needs and desires. there are many roads to mecca; vinyl is but one way. good for you to have found it. now, perhaps, we can go back to the task at hand.
regards.
john
John,
I am really puzzled. I can see that you joined the forum in Jan. 2011 and I don't know how long you have been subscribing (if at all) but if you have been around the last 15-20 years or more, where have you been buying your vinyl? Because you haven't been buying vinyl at Tower or Sam Goody. Maybe Amazon and some specialty retailers (Music Direct, Acoustic Sounds or Elusive Disc, etc.) because I have to go to used stores (like Academy in NY) to get my vinyl.
Write a post to Mr. Fremer and ask him how the audio press has treated him when he touted the superiority of Analog over Digital! Yes enjoying music is the real question and I am 57 years old with 3500 LP's and about 1000 CD's. I have not recently found it, I remember Sam Goody with a 20-30 foot wall of OPERA recordlings only stacked 3 shelves high. Then CD's arrived in the early 80's and all of a sudden the LP's disappeared and CD's as well from the brick and mortar stores somewhat later!
The task at hand is that I am glad vinyl has made a mild return in popularity. Please go look at back issues of Stereophile and see how the ads for TT's, Carts, PP, etc. have increased from years ago. As well as recommended components withh PP's listed. Also my point was that most folks are using a high output MM cart into a preamp. Using a PP means that you either have a line preamp or you have a low output MC and interconnect to go between.
If you think that vinyl did not go away for a while, I'm wondering if you have been around.
John
I still have my turntable and records, boxed up since 1986.
Especially since moving to a SqueezeBox in 2005, I just can't see going back to all the hassle of records. Turntable maintenance, record maintenance, getting up to switch records or tracks, vibration, pops and hisses, etc ...
Isn't the real issue that digital audio is *missing* something that vinyl gives you? Too much compression perhaps? Seems like with modern DSP processing or improved mastering that whatever vinyl offers could be replicated in digital ... and much more conveniently.
john,
i am hardly a 'kid' (newly retired. i grew up and went to school in 'the 'city' in the late '50s and '60s), i have fond memories of browsing/buying at sam goody's (even alexander's dept store had a'record' department) and times square records on 42nd street.
i wish i would have kept my lps (sorta like my topps baseball cards), but, alas, they were sold/given away. Would having a vinyl collection be worthy of securing and maintaining: no doubt. starting from scratch collecting vinyl with associated equipment, is just more than i want to assume at thispoint in my life.
you wrote, "The task at hand is that I am glad vinyl has made a mild return in popularity". why not ? I agree. i have no ideological position on the primacy of vinyl over digital. likewise, similarly, i take no ideological position in the subjectivist/objectivist wars. what's the point? i enjoy the digital equipment. it is quite that simple.
finally, yes, vinyl was in exile/disrepute for far too long and became one more stupid argument in 'the community'. no doubt fremer was a critical advocate for its resurgence.what i take issue with - and i will admit to nitpicking - is the use of the word, "vindicated". i maintain my position that vinly/fremer never needed to be vindicated; it is one more audilphile constructed argumen; one more issue to chew over and become vituperative. thankfully, kids who have not the slightest conception of the vinyl brouhaha, never read fremer, or any audiophile mag are buying vinyl; it is now 'in', as is shitty compressed music.
anyhow, i think you misconstrued my point, i hope i have clarified myself.
john
John,
Glad we have come a bit closer together. That's the problem with e-mails (or worse nowadays texting, which I abhor), they are too bare bones without the context that vocal inflections permit. I still like the vindicated description because the attacks were not coming from kids but from the audio press that touted the superiority of digital (remember perfect sound forever) in the same way that all equipment sounds the same unless you can elicit a measurable difference. Kids have been listening to some vinyl and I have no idea why in general. I know as a specific case I have played old, non-audiophile RnR LP's from the 70's (say Aqualung) to younger kids and they were amazed. Next played a 200 g vinyl Aqualung still a 33 rpm LP and their mouth dropped open. Then to put the cherry on top I compared a CD of CCR with a 45 rpm from Acoustic Sounds and I thought I was going to have to perform CPR, almost dropping to the floor. They all informed me they had no idea music could sound so good and different from digital! I picked up a new copy grom the group My Chemical Romance that had pretty good sound. The only other point is that just because the kids were not involved with the decrease in vinyl, that does not mean they weren't victims of the digital/analog struggle. For whatever reason I am glad they have beome aware (to quote Tommy).
Now the next trend is digital downloads. I have yet to be convinced that something is not being lost in the download as opposed to having the software in hand. Glad we have explained things to each other and were closer to each others point of view than originally presented. BTW, are you still in the Big Apple?
I wonder what Mr Fremer thinks of the auto commercial where the turntable is included in technology fading into the past...I suspect the advertiser is not aware ot today's trends...
hi john,
no, i left the city some 35 years ago and make my home in boston. i remain a new yorker, at heart; my self identification and sensibilities were all formed in the city, before i left. truth be told, despite loving the community in which i reside, jamaica plain, and having worked my entire career in and around boston, i find the city provincial and self impressed. similarly, i stilll root for the yankees and the knicks and do not participate in the insane yankee bashing by redsox fans.
could i live in nyc again. no, outside my pension!
glad we could clarify our respective positions.
john