questions.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/forum

You seem to have a few different ideas on how to do it.  You can also use a wireless audio link that uses RF.

There are many different ways to go about this task.

jackfish wrote:

questions.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/forum

Only if you really, really love all things Apple since the Computer Audiophile is nothing more than a shill for Apple. Always has been and always will be.

While this is really none of my business it causes me some concern mainly because it's simply not true.

I say this for any number of reasons the least of which is I've had the pleasure of meeting Chris Connaker/Computer Audiophile and sharing a few email exchanges and he is above being a shill. Moving on from my opinion, there are a few basic facts that make this accusation appear as silly as it is but I’ll throw out just one which should suffice – Chris gave a presentation at RMAF 2011 on how to get the most out his C.A.P.S v2.0 server which is a Windows-based machine - that he designed. If Chris was "nothing more than a shill for Apple" (and I have to say this kind of unfounded name-calling really pisses me off), I don’t believe he’d have designed a Windows-based server.

Also, if you’ll notice jackfish pointed the original poster to the Computer Audiophile forums which are anything but Apple-centric.

Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com

Hi Jazzfan,

You have made a mighty claim, which places people's reputations and jobs on the line.

Please provide some context for your claim so that conversation may continue, or I will delete your comment.

You are doing a disservice to this thread by making this claim and not substantiating it = flame war/no actual useful info

Thank you ML for response.

I'm not as familiar with Ethernet, but I have used up to 15 ft. S/PDIF cable (later an AES3 connection with matching transformer) between my DAC and a cheap USB to S/PDIF converter to play music from a netbook PC. It sounded great, and was the simplest way, since I didn't have an HDMI, or Ethernet option.

You can order a high quality Belden custom length digital cable from http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm for about $35 for a  25 ft. length. It doesn't really answer your question of S/PDIF vs Ethernet, but for the price, it's not too much money just to see if you like it.

I have a suspicion, though don't really know, that an Ethernet connection might be more robust. I don't usually link to other forums, but this could get complicated. So there is an interesting conversation about a using a 100 ft. connection at this link. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=930128 which covers a lot of bases.

EDIT: I just had another thought. If I were in your situation, I think my choice of S/PDIF or Ethernet might depend on whether I preferred that the digital conversion be done in the Oppo, or in the DAC. In other words, it might be a question of the quality of the DAC vs the Oppo.

michaelavorgna wrote:

While this is really none of my business it causes me some concern mainly because it's simply not true.

I say this for any number of reasons the least of which is I've had the pleasure of meeting Chris Connaker/Computer Audiophile and sharing a few email exchanges and he is above being a shill. Moving on from my opinion, there are a few basic facts that make this accusation appear as silly as it is but I’ll throw out just one which should suffice – Chris gave a presentation at RMAF 2011 on how to get the most out his C.A.P.S v2.0 server which is a Windows-based machine - that he designed. If Chris was "nothing more than a shill for Apple" (and I have to say this kind of unfounded name-calling really pisses me off), I don’t believe he’d have designed a Windows-based server.

Also, if you’ll notice jackfish pointed the original poster to the Computer Audiophile forums which are anything but Apple-centric.

Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com

Ariel Bitran wrote:

Hi Jazzfan,

You have made a mighty claim, which places people's reputations and jobs on the line.

Please provide some context for your claim so that conversation may continue, or I will delete your comment.

You are doing a disservice to this thread by making this claim and not substantiating it = flame war/no actual useful info

Thank you ML for response.

Wow talk about circling the wagons. That is the last time I say anything even mildly controversial about one of your fellow audio "journalists".

With that said, I do apologize for my prior remarks since I had not checked the Computer Audiophile is quite some time (something like a couple of years because the last time I did check the site it was completely Apple-centric) and upon checking out the site today I can now say that the site does cover a much broader range of manufacturers and plenty of good information along with lots of the usual audiophile nonsense such as how USB cables sound different.

Cable induced jitter is a pretty well known condition. Belkin or DH Labs? I'll take the DH Labs everytime.

jackfish wrote:

Cable induced jitter is a pretty well known condition. Belkin or DH Labs? I'll take the DH Labs everytime.

This is just another case of a fabricated, or in this case a totally overblown, "problem" being used to create FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) which is then "fixed" with a totally overpriced "solution". Any cable induced jitter is insignificant compared to the jitter already present as a result of using USB.

But hey, it's your money.

many not so well. So with good USB implementation why bother to add jitter with a cheap data cable which works great for transferring data between devices where jitter does not affect performance, but will contribute significant distortion in an audio system? Cable jitter is real, it’s just a matter of how effectively it’s removed before the DAC performs the conversion, and if any amount that remains is audible.

I'm sorry if in this instance I can hear the difference between a $2.79 20" Belkin Pro Series USB Device cable and a $60 19.685" DH Labs Silver Sonic USB cable between a MacBook Air and Schiit Bifrost USB DAC. Some people claim to hear differences between speaker cables which might be far less likely than hearing differences between USB cables.

But hey, its my money.

jackfish wrote:

many not so well. So with good USB implementation why bother to add jitter with a cheap data cable which works great for transferring data between devices where jitter does not affect performance, but will contribute significant distortion in an audio system? Cable jitter is real, it’s just a matter of how effectively it’s removed before the DAC performs the conversion, and if any amount that remains is audible.

I'm sorry if in this instance I can hear the difference between a $2.79 20" Belkin Pro Series USB Device cable and a $60 19.685" DH Labs Silver Sonic USB cable between a MacBook Air and Schiit Bifrost USB DAC. Some people claim to hear differences between speaker cables which might be far less likely than hearing differences between USB cables.

But hey, its my money.

If this is true, i.e. that when using USB to transfer a digital audio to a DAC the USB cable can add audible jitter, then it is even more imperative that one finds a way to stream digital audio from a computer (PC, Mac, Unix box, etc.) to one's audio system without using USB for anything other simple data transfer.

The good news that there are many different ways to stream audio from a computer to an audio system which do NOT use USB. For example the Logitech line of Squeezebox devices uses Ethernet/Wi-Fi to stream from a computer to a Squeezebox device and then one can either use the built in DAC of the Squeezebox device or connect the digital output of the Squeezebox device to an external DAC via either digital coax or optical, thereby eliminating ALL the problems with using USB.

Clean, simple, effective and, most importantly, not very expensive. The Squeezebox Touch can be purchased for under $300.

results in unacceptable jitter. There are good implementations of USB. There is possible horror with both S/PDIF and USB.

jackfish wrote:

Even poor S/PDIF implementation results in unacceptable jitter. There are good implementations of USB. There is possible horror with both S/PDIF and USB.

The brainwashing is now complete. Over the past two years or so I've watched as various high end manufacturers and their enablers in the high end audio press have slowly managed to discredit each and every method of transferring digital audio data to a DAC except for overly expensive asynchronous USB.

However all that aside, what makes you say that the S/PDIF in the Squeezebox Touch is poorly implemented?

According to the measurements included in the Stereophile of the Squeezebox Touch jitter in the Touch is not a problem.

http://forum.stereophile.com/content/logitech-squeezebox-touch-network-music-player-measurements

I never said S/PDIF is poorly implemented in the Squeezebox Touch, only that there are poor implementations of S/PDIF. You made a blanket contention that USB is crap, which seems to be more of your opinion than anything else. In addition, I don't necessarily derive my views from "various high end manufacturers and their enablers in the high end audio audio press."  The manufacturer of my DAC espouses the superiority of S/PDIF over USB, but then provides probably one of the better USB implementations available in their DAC for an extra $100. Hardly overly expensive.

I really would rather not get into a flame war over this issue so let me clarify a few things.

1) I fully understand that non-asynchronous USB is not a very good method for streaming digital audio data to a DAC.

2) I fully understand that asynchronous USB is a much better method for streaming digital audio data to a DAC then non-asynchronous USB provided that the DAC has a very good internal clock. However WTF does this have to do with S/PDIF? Apples and oranges.

3) I DO NOT fully understand why properly implemented coax and optical connections are no longer considered by the high end audio press (not you, jackfish) to be any good.

4) What I do understand is that a new product catagory has been introduced, i.e. DACs with asynchronous USB connections, and in order to promote sales something has to be done. Sorry if I think that "something" is related to #2 & #3 above.