hollowman
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Review request for new (2010) ELP laser turntable 'High-End Model'
Drtrey3
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the problem is error correction. Dust tracks as an annoying pop on those tables so far as I know. Some judicious air flow and reading the data into a buffer where the "pop" could be corrected to modulate between the preceeding and following data would work I bet. But reading that great vinyl data without touching it would be WAY cool.

Trey

dbowker
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From what I recall it was like using a blow torch to light a candle: Expensive, over engineered, no discernable added value and more finicky. Get yourself a good VPI and be done with it. Why add a laser to a physical medium that then has to translate it to an analogue wave? Dumb.

JoeE SP9
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According to the ELP site there is no A to D and consequently no D to A conversion of the analog signal. They say the signal stays analog from start to finish. I would buy one were it within my means. 

dbowker
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They did a t least one review way back in the 90's I believe and it was not exactly favorable. You actually got a lot more noise from the surface than standard needles and pickup. It didn't track all that well either and at the time, for 10 grand didn't any sound better than 'tables and cartridge combos costing a lot less money. The entire thing sounded like a guy's hobby idea allowed to go much too far.

WillWeber
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dbowker wrote:

They did a t least one review way back in the 90's I believe and it was not exactly favorable. You actually got a lot more noise from the surface than standard needles and pickup. It didn't track all that well either and at the time, for 10 grand didn't any sound better than 'tables and cartridge combos costing a lot less money.

That's my recollection too of the original reviews. Does this new generation design do any better (at twice the price)?

However, we must put into perspective that the amount of development and evolution into conventional phonography likely is at least 1000x (my guess) that of this laser approach; having benefitted from many product generations, among many competing companies, over many decades. The mechanical systems are really quite refined and it amazes me how well they perform.

The optical approach is not fundamentally flawed, and provides many advantages in principle. I suspect that if the amount of development effort were allowed to grow to just 10x the present, we’d see superior results. It is surprising that this machine works as well as it reportedly does, considering the novelty of it. The high cost has more to do with the low volumes andproduct immaturity, as would a CD player if only one company had expended the R&D and developed minimal generations. I think it would be exciting to see what continued evolution of optical vinyl pickup tech would bring to the arena. The basic patents should expire soon (hint, hint).

 

dbowker
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"The optical approach is not fundamentally flawed, and provides many advantages in principle. I suspect that if the amount of development effort were allowed to grow to just 10x the present, we’d see superior results."

 

That might be true of course, though I'd say the ratio is more like needing 100x more research to get the idea viable. But from what I can see you really need to question the economics of all that money and effort.

For the owner you increase the likelihood of somehting breaking or going wrong about a 100x too. And how many companies could repair it? One, and you better hope they are around for a long time. While a truly great cartridge is expensive and complicated to make, once in place, barring actually breaking the cantilever, not a lot ever happens with it. In more than twenty years I've actually busted just one expensive cartridge, which they could replace the needle anyway, so it wasn't that bad. With laser you introduce all sorts of new issues, not the least of which is one more ultra sensitive thing to have to be powered.

I look at it by carison to some of the really cool ideas that have some around over the years for transportation. Hover cars, hubless motor cycles, hydrogen engines; all the things you see in Popular Science. Rarely do any of them make it to the real world for pretty much all the reasons the laser TT hasn't: Maybe reinventing the wheel isn't the best use of resources.

If, for instance, the sound quality and user experience was an unqualified stellar sucess, then you'd have a reason to keep going. But as the reviews have been far less than that, the motivation for doing more are still a bit on the theoritcal side for me.

WillWeber
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Hello dbowker,

I appreciate you insight and comments. Of course, anything new is full of maybe. My suggestion is that some competitve development might be possible and would likely lead to outstanding performance, being that the first product is not bad, and it seems there's lots of room for improvements. (What did the early phono cartidges sound like? I've listened to some Edison wax drums when younger, but could take it for only short durations). And would the cost become reasonable or really competitive as a result? Maybe.

My estimate of 1000x development in mechanical palyback is just a guess, I don't know how much effort has been expended on either side. But just looking a some gross factors: # of cartridge companies ~30x perhaps, times avg# of R&D employees at each ~3x to 5x maybe, times # of years in development ~4x roughly. Again, I can only guess. You may be right about 100x, though that is still a significant advantage.

It might be too late anyway, high res downloads might just overtake the audiophile market. I'm putting any new TT purchases on the back burner for a little while, and not jumping into downloadable files and hardware quite yet either.

Cheers,

WillW

dbowker
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Just looked further inot their new model. And to top it off, you need to buy a $4200 box to digitize your music into a buffer to declick the records?

Sorry, but that just beats it all.

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