Ya , but some of them deserved it . I don't like the fact that they erase many of my posts that don't concur with there politics and belief's . That seems a bit narrow minded to me . We will see how long this one lasts . All the best . Tim

tmsorosk wrote:

Ya , but some of them deserved it . I don't like the fact that they erase many of my posts that don't concur with there politics and belief's . That seems a bit narrow minded to me . We will see how long this one lasts . All the best . Tim

Hi Tim
Do you have any examples of this?

Thanks!

Hello Ariel
No I have not keep a log of deleted posts . I assume there is a way for you to check if your interested . I'm not complaining , just trying to figure out why Stereophiles forum's are not as popular as I think they should be . We'll keep trying . Regards Tim

The only posts we delete are spam. If it's totally inappropriate or in violation of forum rules, its moved to the dead zone.

tmsorosk wrote:

Ya , but some of them deserved it . I don't like the fact that they erase many of my posts that don't concur with there politics and belief's . That seems a bit narrow minded to me . We will see how long this one lasts . All the best . Tim

RG

Ariel.. I beg to differ , none of the deleted posts were inappropriate or in violation of forum rules as I understand them , and I did go back and reread the rules . I also checked in the dead zone and could not find any of the posts . I guess there is a gremlin . I hope you find him .
I guess it all really dosn't matter, I'm more into your paper mag and have been for a long time , I thought it might be fun to converse with other readers and the reviewers that you have looked up to for so long . Thats turned out to be a bit of a mixed bag . Enjoy the music ... Tim

tmsorosk wrote:

I guess there is a gremlin . I hope you find him .

for some reason, you brought me back to this old cartoon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1xqrdtJs8w

sometimes the gremlins just can't be outsmarted...

tmsorosk wrote:

I'm more into your paper mag and have been for a long time , I thought it might be fun to converse with other readers and the reviewers that you have looked up to for so long . Thats turned out to be a bit of a mixed bag . Enjoy the music ... Tim

to me, the is the best starting point for a positive and productive perspective on our forums: as a venue for discussion in/about/and around the magazine and then the entire world of hi-fi (and other fun things) surrounding it. At the heart of the forums is the magazine, and we have editors and writers participating here in order to make that discussion even more real and hopefully make your Stereophile enjoyment that much more involved.

thanks for your participation and support.

Well, the history here is one of a couple of bullies on the high-end side beating up on people, then an over the top "objectivist" getting into a bunch of battles, etc.

The problem is that most people have, I think, simply left, because all one could find were battles and political propaganda.

That's why I don't bother to answer questions any more, among other things, there is a crowd that appears to exist here only to controvert any useful discussions.

im not a star but I stopped coming here when the forum layout started sucking.

awful, bloody awful.

ncdrawl wrote:

im not a star but I stopped coming here when the forum layout started sucking.

awful, bloody awful.

I have to admit, I'm no fan of the new format, either.

The only folk who love this new format and refuse to fix it, are those who inflicted it on us....

Hello j_j ... Maybe a few good poster like you and I can turn the tables . I'm fairly new here and in no way ready to give up .
The other forums have there bullies and people that are just plain rude too , you no the ones there also the folks that think every piece of equipment they own is the best , and don't agree with anything they haven't said themselves . , in fact I have an audiophile friend that fits that description to a T .
It's the music that matters most . ... Tim ...

j_j wrote:

Well, the history here is one of a couple of bullies on the high-end side beating up on people, then an over the top "objectivist" getting into a bunch of battles, etc.

The problem is that most people have, I think, simply left, because all one could find were battles and political propaganda.

That's why I don't bother to answer questions any more, among other things, there is a crowd that appears to exist here only to controvert any useful discussions.

Yeah, those high enders can be pretty rough, esp. May Belt. She can be pretty tough... cough cough. Sorry to hear you decided not to answer questions anymore, I'm sure we'll all miss them... sniff sniff

Nice to see the place so well behaved, well maybe too well behaved.. Cheers, y'all!

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

I stayed away for a while because of the divisiveness that was rampant here. Although I was never attacked personally, I got no enjoyment and little use out of threads that all ended in the same arguments with the same people. So I am glad that some changes in membership have been made in the interest of creating an atmosphere where open discourse can occur.

However, the new format completely SUCKS!! It's doesn't look inviting at all and there are no formatting options or smilies. Hell, I can't even tell if I'm logged in our not unless I try to make a post. Altogether, the format change was s significant downgrade.

Tedrick wrote:

I stayed away for a while because of the divisiveness that was rampant here. Although I was never attacked personally, I got no enjoyment and little use out of threads that all ended in the same arguments with the same people. So I am glad that some changes in membership have been made in the interest of creating an atmosphere where open discourse can occur.

The argument can be made that the truth will not come out without a fight. Unless, of course, you subscribe to the notion that all the truths are known. Besides, if you don't wish to see the threads that contain what you believe to be excessive arguing, by all means, you should not feel obligated to read them. If you are watching a TV show that doesn't interest you or that offends you, what do you do? You change the channel. Duh! When striving to create an atmosphere where open discourse can occur the frequent result is stiffling real discussion and creating a bland and uninteresting atmosphere.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Advanced Audio Concepts

Tedrick wrote:

I stayed away for a while because of the divisiveness that was rampant here. Although I was never attacked personally, I got no enjoyment and little use out of threads that all ended in the same arguments with the same people. So I am glad that some changes in membership have been made in the interest of creating an atmosphere where open discourse can occur.

However, the new format completely SUCKS!! It's doesn't look inviting at all and there are no formatting options or smilies. Hell, I can't even tell if I'm logged in our not unless I try to make a post. Altogether, the format change was s significant downgrade.

And you cannot post a picture and you cannot see how many folk have seen the thread, and...

Folk have complained about these shortfalls for months and the folk running the site do not seem to care.

as with everything else, it seems to be all about the money.. they care only about reaching a greater target audience, forum faithfuls be damned.

I found a new HiFi forum, and it is where I spend all my alloted interweb time.

very cool place. and it isnt AA, Audio Annex, any of those..

if anyone wants to know, PM me

ncdrawl wrote:

as with everything else, it seems to be all about the money.. they care only about reaching a greater target audience, forum faithfuls be damned.

I found a new HiFi forum, and it is where I spend all my alloted interweb time.

very cool place. and it isnt AA, Audio Annex, any of those..

if anyone wants to know, PM me

Rats, Audio Annex would have been my first guess. Is it Hydrogen Audio? Audio Circle? Polk Audio?

:-)

Geoff Kait
Machismo Dramatica

Computer Audiophile?

Quote:

"I stayed away for a while because of the divisiveness that was rampant here."

I completely agree, the divisiveness was rampant at times and must have caused many others to 'stay away' - as you did.

It was not only the divisiveness which was a problem either.

To use one example. Using the experiences of some members of Stereophile after they had heard the improvements in the sound after the application of a demagnetiser to LPs etc.

This caused quite a furore - with such as Ethan Winer implying Fraud (on the manufacturer of the device) at every opportunity. In my opinion, this was not just a case of 'freedom of speech' being allowed. Quite a number of people objected to THAT type of unwanted and unnecessary attack and input into what should have been a serious discussion. As you point out, the divisiveness was rampant !! Where the greatest negative outcome was, in my opinion, that when that long 'thread' was closed because of the abuse, attacks and aggression, some of the intelligent input by others who WERE wishing to hold an intelligent discussion on that subject - input which had been well thought out and where much energy had been used in such input - 'went out with the whole bathwater' !!! So, I guess, many people thought "Why bother putting energy and thought into contributing to a discussion when, because of other's immature 'backlash', their intelligent contributions went with everything else into the trash can."

Such unconcern (complete deletions) for other's genuine efforts only has to happen a few times before those people decide - why bother ?

I wish Geoff was wrong:-

Quote:

"The argument can be made that the truth will not come out without a fight"

.

Or, correction, I HOPE he is not proved right. !!

But, one controversy after another, over these past 30 years in audio, have still not been resolved after numerous and heated 'fights' !! So, there MUST be another way, a better way !!

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

One would think that level headed thinking and conversation would likely produce better results than a fight complete with childish name calling . At least it seems that way at work .
It might make for spirited reading but little will come from this .

tmsorosk wrote:

One would think that level headed thinking and conversation would likely produce better results than a fight complete with childish name calling . At least it seems that way at work .
It might make for spirited reading but little will come from this .

I suspect it all depends on the subject of the discussion as to how it progresses. I think I can say without fear of contradiction there are many aspects of the audio hobby that are simply too controversial for a normal, restrained, unemotional dialogue to result - on ANY audio forum - though the discussion may start out with the best of intentions. If you think that audio discussions should always be level-headed, educational and friendly you might not fully appreciate how the internet works, if I may be so bold.

So, what subjects am I referring to? High end cables, tube amps vs solid state amps, audio testing methodologies, the relevance of measurements and data, wire and fuse directionality, controversial tweaks, quantum physics. Did I mention controversial tweaks?

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

geoffkait wrote:

Did I mention controversial tweaks?

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

Would those be the ones peddled by pseudo-tweak sales specialists who classify themselves as "manufacturers?"

RG

geoff... I agree with your views on the internet and on the endless bickering on audio topics , these things will no doubt carry on long after were gone .
But is it really necessary to attack others over there views . It seems narrow minded not to see things from both sides .
I am not a manufacturer , but I did own a company for 22 years as well as managing other businesses for another 10 . One thing that became clear was that when two or more employes had a heated debate little would come from this , other than hard feelings that sometimes lasted indefinitely , and usually over nothing . And yes I do think all things audio , should be level-headed educational and friendly , not to mention interesting and fun . it's the way we've lived our lives . Canadians eh . Tim

tmsorosk wrote:

geoff... I agree with your views on the internet and on the endless bickering on audio topics , these things will no doubt carry on long after were gone .
But is it really necessary to attack others over there views . It seems narrow minded not to see things from both sides .
I am not a manufacturer , but I did own a company for 22 years as well as managing other businesses for another 10 . One thing that became clear was that when two or more employes had a heated debate little would come from this , other than hard feelings that sometimes lasted indefinitely , and usually over nothing . And yes I do think all things audio , should be level-headed educational and friendly , not to mention interesting and fun . it's the way we've lived our lives . Canadians eh . Tim

That's a pretty funny response, at least I think so - do you really think I do not see things from both sides? Do you think I am not skeptical? Can I share an observation? -- the naysayers and "skeptics" one encounters on audio forums such as this one are not particluarly susceptible to humor. They're SO serious. Is it because they feel they're on some sort of mission, who knows? Thanks for the nice lecture anyway.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dogmatica

geoffkait wrote:

tmsorosk wrote:

One would think that level headed thinking and conversation would likely produce better results than a fight complete with childish name calling . At least it seems that way at work .
It might make for spirited reading but little will come from this .

I suspect it all depends on the subject of the discussion as to how it progresses. I think I can say without fear of contradiction there are many aspects of the audio hobby that are simply too controversial for a normal, restrained, unemotional dialogue to result - on ANY audio forum - though the discussion may start out with the best of intentions.

I got banned from a MAC forum for simply noting PC's at 1/3 the price deliver the same performance (specs)and that all computers are obsolete in 3 or 4 years. That meant that one can buy 3 times as much cutting edge technology for the price of a single MAC...

Some forums do not like to hear anything but sunshine and flowers about their topics.

geoff... Sorry didn't mean to sound like a lecture , and in no way was I suggesting you were one of the angry antagonists . Had to chuckle over your comment about some people on these forums not being particularly susceptible to humor . Why is that ?

"One part of knowledge consists in being ignorant of such things that are not worthy of being known."
-Crates

Catch22 wrote:

"One part of knowledge consists in being ignorant of such things that are not worthy of being known."
-Crates

 
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance” - Socrates

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

Catch22 wrote:

"One part of knowledge consists in being ignorant of such things that are not worthy of being known."
-Crates

"You see," he explained, "I consider that a man's brain originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out, or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things so that he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it. Now the skilful workman is very careful indeed as to what he takes into his brain-attic. He will have nothing but the tools which may help him in doing his work, but of these he has a large assortment, and all in the most perfect order. It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones." – Sherlock Holmes..A Study in Scarlet

JIMV wrote:

Computer Audiophile?

Nope, Jim.. and none of those either, DaDa :)

DaDa, do you have a hifi system yet?

I have been enjoying lurking at the What's Best Forum

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/

RG

RGibran wrote:

I have been enjoying lurking at the What's Best Forum

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/

RG

I just took a gander. Surprisingly bland. Maybe things will pick up.

Tootles,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Advanced Audio Concepts

Yeah- I really sort of feel annoyed and a little bad about it, but since the layout changed I have practically NO desire at all to participate. I can't say it's just one thing, though having it ultra narrow is a big part. The fact is it's just friggin' impossible to follow anything, or even just figure out who's saying what or deal with all the utter nonsense of the format now. The right side ads are like 75% the size of the forums and the whole site is a fixed width which is formated for computers made in 2002! There is no color and font contrast. I actually posted pretty often before but now it's like once or twice a month will I visit. Consequently I also rarely follow Stephens's blog anymore, which I did quite a bit before.

I know the backend/server issues needed to be fixed but guys, SERIOUSLY, you are ignoring a massive and myriad set of navigation problems here! I am sure there are many more like me. I'll be back when it gets fixed, but for now, it's way to much effort. Sorry.....:(

I tried man, i really did...because I like the overall vibe. but the layout is garbage.

whoever did this shit needs to be tarred and feathered.

took a good forum with a good readership and fucking killed it. dead.

same with meijas blog and the whole site. it pretty much sucks now.

ncdrawl... That seems a bit harsh , the layout is a bit goofy but it's the contents that matters most and if that isn't good we can take part of the blame . Think of it as a C.D. or L.P. without catchy artwork .
I haven't tar and feathered anyone since college , the tar was to hard to get off the hands , I'll stick with less juvenile things like snake on a string or train horn undercarriage .

the content can be grand, but what matters most is how user friendly and visually appealing the site is. the internet is a visual medium, and if the layout sucks, nothing else matters.

it was fine before. they made a bad move.