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...Who would have thought simply repeating the same unfounded and misguided thinking would serve as such utter proof positive that you are - of course (and I suspect, as you believe, always) - infallible! No further discussion needed!...

What proof do you want?!

What do you think is so wrong about my post?!

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However, the degree to which a LP preamp or any preamp - or any amp, for that matter - is subject to vibration is the level of (structural) vibration in the environment to begin with.

And the relative sensitivity of devices to vibration comes into play, which you seem to be omitting here.

And you make it sound like all devices of the same type are equally sensitive to vibration.

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What do you think is so wrong about my post?!

I think you're wrong. I mean the grammar and all that is OK - not great, but OK. But the concept is wrong.

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What proof do you want?!

Hmmmph! OK, if I ask you for proof of identity, you probably have something "official" looking that says you are who you say you are. If I ask you for proof 2 + 2 = 4, I'm hoping you could come up with an example of two items plus another two items equalling four items.

Nothing existential, just something that states what you claim but from someone, you know, "official" or some physical demonstration other than, "I can't hear anything".

So, wha'cha got?

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...I think you're wrong. I mean the grammar and all that is OK - not great, but OK. But the concept is wrong...

I used to test electronic equipment (professionally) and I know for a fact that to damage soldered components you have to shake it really hard. Not the kind of "vibration" found in a listening room. However when accidentally bumping in a CD player during playback it usually skips. It happened to me many times.

Now what kind of evidence you have to bring to the table. Oh Smart One?!

Did you suddenly have a gut feeling when listening to the noise and distortion of a tube amp that convinced you that any minimal vibration would affect sound reproduction in an audible way?

And what other myth and misconceptions do you believe? Perhaps you believe that the world is flat, LPs sound better than CDs, silver power cables cause your sound system to sound "brighter", or some other absurdity.

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And you make it sound like all devices of the same type are equally sensitive to vibration.

No, rather, you lie about what I said.

Is there some reason you can't tell the truth?

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And you make it sound like all devices of the same type are equally sensitive to vibration.

No, rather, you lie about what I said.

Is there some reason you can't tell the truth?

As per usual, you feel the need to resort to name calling rather than sticking to the discussion. If you're leading up to some revelation, some secret, spare us the theatrics and get to the point. If you wish to proclaim that any device is not sensitive to vibration be so good as to provide evidence.

Well, I see you have nothing "official". Just another case of, "I can't hear anything". You don't appear to recognize that facts are not dependent upon what you can and cannot hear. You have no "2+2=4" example either. Just more, "It doesn't add up to me". For someone without any defense for what they've said, you say you are certain of many things. Yet you failed to recognize that vacuum tubes can be highly microphonic when you flatly stated ...

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Vibration will interfere with the mechanical (moving parts) only and not at all with the electronic ones.

Therefore, we've already proven you might not be correct when you make statements which you cannot defend. You cannot defent them due to the fact they are patently false. I know, I know, I'm appplying logic to this and people who are certain of what they know abhor logic. And that explains your next step into the wasteland. In the face of certain embarrassment rather than defend your statement with "official" proof or hard evidence, you decide it's better to attack the challenger ...

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Now what kind of evidence you have to bring to the table. Oh Smart One?!

Did you suddenly have a gut feeling when listening to the noise and distortion of a tube amp that convinced you that any minimal vibration would affect sound reproduction in an audible way?

And what other myth and misconceptions do you believe? Perhaps you believe that the world is flat, LPs sound better than CDs, silver power cables cause your sound system to sound "brighter", or some other absurdity.

This is a game I'm just not interested in repeating with another "I'm right and, if you say I'm not, you're the moron". There is a Zen paradox which states, "The more I know, the less I know". JA wrote a column referring to ...

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... a New Yorker cartoon, in which a bewildered-looking guy complains, "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." http://stereophile.com/asweseeit/104awsi/

The cartoon is funny largely due to folk such as you, Ironman. If there weren't people who are so dead certain they know everything there is to know, there would never be people who realize they actually know very little.

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Did you suddenly have a gut feeling when listening to the noise and distortion of a tube amp that convinced you that any minimal vibration would affect sound reproduction in an audible way?

I wouldn't describe it as a "lightbulb" moment if that's what you mean.

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And what other myth and misconceptions do you believe? Perhaps you believe that the world is flat, LPs sound better than CDs, silver power cables cause your sound system to sound "brighter", or some other absurdity.

I live in Texas, go out about 100 miles West of Fort Worth and it's very easy to convince yourself the world is flat - in more ways than one. My feelings about CD's and LP's come down to neither is perfect and many of the problems with the formats have nothing to do with the formats themself. Silver cables making the sound brighter? I don't know, what do you think? Does an oxidized cable make the sound duller? Can you show that with test gear?

Here's one for you, since you do not believe "electronics" can be microphonic, how about cables? Do you feel there is the possibility cables can inject an electrical analog of the soundfield in which they are immersed into the source component?

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Well, I see you have nothing "official"...

I'm still waiting for your evidence.

I don't have to prove that something doesn't happen.

It is in you the onus to prove that something happens (vibrations causing audible effects in electronic components with no moving parts.)

Well, wait one minute. I was the first to ask you for "proof" which you have not delivered. It may seem like a cute little trick to say I am the one who owes you something but, friend, you started this. I've answered your questions, now you prefer to weeney out of answering mine?! Do you have an answer for my questions?

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Silver cables making the sound brighter? I don't know, what do you think? Does an oxidized cable make the sound duller? Can you show that with test gear?

Here's one for you, since you do not believe "electronics" can be microphonic, how about cables? Do you feel there is the possibility cables can inject an electrical analog of the soundfield in which they are immersed into the source component?

If you do, then I will proceed with the debate. If you cannot or will not, then I'll just put you down as saying, "I don't know (shit) and I am not responsible for what my fingers post on this forum."

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As per usual, you feel the need to resort to name calling

Again, you attempt deceit. You lied about what I said, and now you're sobbing like a baby when I point out that you simply lied outright.

If you want to be treated civilly, you can start by not lying about other folks' positions.

Of course, I suppose you'd rather just keep advertising.

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As per usual, you feel the need to resort to name calling

Again, you attempt deceit. You lied about what I said, and now you're sobbing like a baby when I point out that you simply lied outright.

If you want to be treated civilly, you can start by not lying about other folks' positions.

Of course, I suppose you'd rather just keep advertising.

Huh???!!! Do you have a frog in your pocket? I have no idea what the hell you're even talking about. I imagine it's some sort of troll/skeptic tactic. In any case, if you have something relevant to say on the subject, the floor is yours. Otherwise, run away troll!!

"Once they get a foothold in your house they can be very difficult to get rid of."

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Do you have a frog in your pocket? I have not idea what the hell you're even talking about.

Maybe the "frog jumped in the water"

....only joking..

We all know you don't know (shit) Jan Vigne.

You don't even know what the onus of proof means as a scientific definition.

It doesn't matter who asked the question first. Smarty.

Fine, I'll list you as, "I not only don't know shit but my brain frequently disengages and posts crap just because I'm full of it."

Why you had to resort to insulting me, I don't know. You had a choice, you could have said, "I am not sure", or "I don't know". You could have swallowed your pride and admitted you misspoke. You could have humbled yourself just a bit, enough that we might have had an actual discussion occur on this forum. You could have thought for just a moment how you might defend your statement, even that would have been a productive result.

Instead you decided the "smarter" thing to do was to attack the person who simply asked you to defend what you were so certain had to be true. You decided making an enemy was better than saying, "I am not sure". You decided to prove you know nothing but still be an ass. And, despite not being able to provide just a shred of evidence, you'll go on stubbornly being convinced you were right all along.

I don't get it.

Do you really think now that you have proven you cannot answer the questions that anyone believes you know what you're talking about? Do you really think I care that someone who doesn't have the self respect to say, "I screwed up", decides to insult me? Once again I am exasperated.

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Here's one for you, since you do not believe "electronics" can be microphonic, how about cables? Do you feel there is the possibility cables can inject an electrical analog of the soundfield in which they are immersed into the source component?

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Take a 10' or so length of coaxial interconnect and terminate one end with, say, 47k ohms to represent a typical load impedance. Terminate the other with an RCA plug and hook it into your preamp's line input. Turn the volume up and bang the cable with a suitable blunt instrument. You'll find that some cables are very microphonic, others not at all. Some cables, therefore, will inject an electrical analog of the soundfield in which they are immersed into the source component's feedback loop

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I don't get it.

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At a press conference in July 1969 he (John Lennon) stated:

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Do you have a frog in your pocket? I have not idea what the hell you're even talking about.

Maybe the "frog jumped in the water"

....only joking..

But how can the frog be in the water and in jj's pants at the same time? Unless, unless it's a quantum frog!

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Do you have a frog in your pocket? I have not idea what the hell you're even talking about.

Maybe the "frog jumped in the water"

....only joking..

But how can the frog be in the water and in jj's pants at the same time? Unless, unless it's a quantum frog!

LMFAO!! Good one Geoff, and you make a salient point.

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Do you have a frog in your pocket? I have not idea what the hell you're even talking about.

Maybe the "frog jumped in the water"

....only joking..

But how can the frog be in the water and in jj's pants at the same time? Unless, unless it's a quantum frog!

LMFAO!! Good one Geoff, and you make a salient point.

Schrodinger's Frog - the frog is both alive and dead at the same time.

Don't worry, there're plenty more where those came from.

Quantum bullshit ! Someone's pocket is full of water.

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Quantum bullshit ! Someone's pocket is full of water.

Tsk, tsk, someone's channeling Smelly Old Cat (RIP).