Go here and look around.

There is a vibrant Technics subculture.

I never got it. I've put lots of different cartridges on them and I've never been impressed. I once even had a customer insist that I put a Sumiko Bluepoint No. 2 on one even though I told him that he was probably wasting his money. But I did it anyway. In the end the $300 cartridge didn't end up sounding that much better than the $35 dollar Shure. He ended up buying a Project Xperience (ordered without cartridge) and we mounted the No. 2 on that, he was very happy.

Actually my experiences were based on the 1200 I don't know how similar or different they are too be honest.

Maybe you should have used a Ringmat!

(Blog joke)

Turntables are incredibly sophisticated combinations of interdependent mechanical and electronic subsystems. Design is at least as important as execution, so I don't think looking at a turntable necessarily tells the whole story. One designer (can't remember which) said that a design is perfect when you can't take anything else away, it is fairly obvious why the genius of such a design may well not be apparent at first glance. Of course there are badly designed turntables out there as well as turntables designed to look rather than sound impressive. Some manufacturers (no names no pack drill ) seem to substitute mass for engineering and some buyers seem to equate mass with sound quality. A beautiful symbiosis.

In selecting my turntable I was very much influenced by the design philosophy behind it (I had the benefit of being able to discuss it at length with the designer as he is also my principal audio dealer). I found it really interesting to delve into the thinking and the way he went about solving all the various problems (it was an analagous story to that of the Audiomeca Belladonna I linked in another thread). Moreover, understanding the R&D effort behind it makes me realize my deck was a stone cold bargain. Far from all high-end audio designers get rich on their art, for many it is a labour of love.

For folks after audio jewelery choosing by looks is obviously the best approach. However, at the end of the day if it's the sound that matters I wouldn't advise anyone spend $5k on a turntable without an audition for that very reason.

warning: i am not saying either of the tables mentioned below is worth the money, they are only mentioned to demonstrate the point.

a good friend of mine has a Burgmann "Sindre" table http://www.bergmannaudio.com/files/Sindre/Sindre-1.jpg . this table retails for around $20 large. it has an air bearing arm and platter, but when you simply look at it, it looks like nothing special at all in fact it is plain jane. last month, MF reviewed the "Hanss" table for $4600. if you ask me, that Hanss looked like the $20k table and the bergmann looked like the $4600 table. it goes to show you what looks mean in this hobby.
of course, the proof would be in the listening and i have never heard the hanss.

I agree Tom (although I personally think the Bergmann is absolutely drop dead gorgeous - must be a Scandinavian thang).

Anyway this is one of the very best sounding record decks I have ever heard, possibly the best ever. Doesn't look like much does it? I think it is a perfect example of this very point.

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I agree Tom (although I personally think the Bergmann is absolutely drop dead gorgeous - must be a Scandinavian thang).

Anyway this is one of the very best sounding record decks I have ever heard, possibly the best ever. Doesn't look like much does it? I think it is a perfect example of this very point.

It's a Danish record player.

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It's a Danish record player.

You wish! The aforementioned Bergmann is Danish, that picture shows a Simon Yorke Series 10. IIRC Simon Yorke is actually a Spanish company.

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It's a Danish record player.

You wish! The aforementioned Bergmann is Danish, that picture shows a Simon Yorke Series 10. IIRC Simon Yorke is actually a Spanish company.

Maybe he meant it only plays Danish records.

struts: i agree that the bergmann has a stylish simplicity in the best nordic tradition. however, perhaps to illustrate how screwed up mainstream perception of value is, most non-nordic people would probably think the hanss with all of those "bells and whistles" was the more expensive of the two if all they saw was a picture or the units side by side. i mean, i use a nottingham which looks like a glorified erector set and you have to start and stop by manually spinning or halting the platter (no switch), so i am certainly no arbiter of good taste.

Tom,

Haha, there really is no accounting for taste! While I think the Hanss makes an imposing visual statement (and I have no doubt it sounds every bit as good as AD reports), its design does not appeal to me from an engineering perspective at all. When I first read your post I read 'belts and whistles' and that's really how I think of it. When I read the following at the start the review:

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The T-30 is more or less the midpoint of the Hanss turntable line. Indeed, their current catalog reflects a modular approach, with successively dearer models sharing the same basic design, yet with more: more motors, more tonearm mounts, more drive belts, more platter mass, more layers of plinth.

...my toes curled up and I started hyperventilating.

Now I'm hardly qualified to dismiss all those mores out-of-hand as legitimate solutions to the various engineering problems inherent in turntable design; the Hanss may be a work of genius for all I know. I just don't happen, in my very personal humble opinion, to think they're the best ways. As far as TTs go I'm a 'less is more' kinda guy and that strikes me as very much a 'more is more' kinda deck. My money, my religion.

OTOH I find lots to like about the Nottingham which I researched thoroughly once upon a time and nearly bought. It would definitely be on my shortlist if I were fishing in that particular pond.

struts: i did not mention that with an einstein cartridge and phono-pre, the bergmann sounds fantastic. i think that its simple looks hide some very thoughtful design. that is absolutely the finest looking linear tracking arm i have ever seen (in my simple opinion). most of those arms look like children's toys and i would not have one on my table no matter what it sounded like. the operation is just as simple and smooth as it appears as well. if i had the extra $$$$$. ah, well.

Just took a look at Bergmann's site to see if they discuss any of the design aspects at all (they do).

This made me smile:

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Our life-long passion in music, vinyl and the airbearing technique, form the basis of Bergmann Audio. We believe in the simple solutions - simple the optimal way. We believe that a turntable must consist of as few parts as possible, to avoid any interference with the sound. Every single part of our turntables is carefully considered in its function, material and design.

...

The keywords are:

-Less is more-

Of course it sounds great! It has to sound great!

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It's a Danish record player.

You wish! The aforementioned Bergmann is Danish, that picture shows a Simon Yorke Series 10. IIRC Simon Yorke is actually a Spanish company.

That's what I meant. I have no idea about the pictured TT, I just assumed it was the Bergmann.

Why do these entry level $1.000.00 turntable threads always end up taking the OP's inquiry to the stratosphere?

Anyway, in case you missed it Alan, The Technics SL-1200 MKII from the other thread, with special acoustic carpet mat and bling...